1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jews

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by n2thelight, Apr 13, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    Again DB you missed the point.
     
  2. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    You can speculate about Jews until the cows come home and it won't matter. What matters is those who occupy Jerusalem when Jesus returns. They are special to God. He will fight for them. And WOE unto those He fights against.

    He will return to Israel. It is His special place and people.
     
  3. Christian1488

    Christian1488 New Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    You are making the false connection that modern Israel is old Israel.

    You are also making the connection that the Jews are the chosen people.....


    The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."


    Are modern Jews Israelites? Are they Hebrews? In their own writings these self-styled "Jews" tell us it is incorrect to call a contemporary "Jew" an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew." Under the heading "A Brief History of the Terms for Jew," in the 1980 Jewish Almanac, is the following:

    "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3

    Who are these self-styled "Jews" then if they are not Israelites? One American Jew woke up to the lie after living in the Israeli occupational state in Palestine. He put it this way:

    "The American people have been led to believe that Jews are "God's chosen people." This myth was started by a small group of Jews. A few Jewish leaders took excerpts from the Bible and interpreted them to mean that God designated them as "chosen people."

    Although some Jews look for a War Lord type of individual to help place Jewry on the throne of the World, the actual view of Judaism is that the Jewish people themselves comprise the Messiah, and their reign is the Messianic reign (actually foretold for Christ in the Bible). The tribulation foretold to precede the reign of Christ, in which Satanism strives to subdue the world, is scoffed at by the Talmud and called "fictitious." Babylonian power will not fall, says Judaism. The tribulation will be but "the throes of mother Zion which is in labor to bring forth the Messiah — without metaphor, the Jewish people." (See Exhibit 147, from the Talmud, Kethuboth 111a) In other words, to call the Jewish people the Messiah is no metaphor; they are literally just that; they are the "Messiah," says the Talmud.

    - The Plot against Christianity Elizabeth Dilling
     
  4. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Please tell us then, what is this Nation called Israel with its capitol Jerusalem, that God has raised from the dead???
    What do you call those living in Israel? Jews maybe? When Jesus returns you will see who are His chosen. It will be those living in Israel. Zech 14 again.
    Mere speculation.
    Did you miss what Zechariah said? Jesus will return to Jerusalem.

    Zechariah 14:1-4 (NKJV)
    1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming, And your spoil will be divided in your midst. 2 For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem; The city shall be taken, The houses rifled, And the women ravished. Half of the city shall go into captivity, But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then the LORD will go forth And fight against those nations, As He fights in the day of battle. 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, Which faces Jerusalem on the east.

    So take heed what you say about those living in Israel.
     
  5. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    His return will take place exactly where he left from.
    That has nothing to do with the people of modern Israel.
    You draw poor conclusions.
     
  6. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    5

    You attempt to draw the unwary into your web.


    BibleScribe
     
  7. Christian1488

    Christian1488 New Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    The ''nation'' of Israel is only a STATE,''supported'' by the USA,which came to be in the late 1940's.Since when is a state defined as a nation?
    Those who live in Israel are the Jews.The Edomite,antichrists.(The JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, edition of 1925, Vol. 5, page 41, states "Edom is in modern Jewry.")

    http://www.israelect.com/reference/JackMohr/JM050.htm - THE MARKS OF ISRAEL

    http://www.sheldonemrylibrary.com/oldjerusalem.pdf - THE OLD JERUSALEM IS NOT THE NEW JERUSALEM

    "The Messiah [is] without metaphor the Jewish people" Kethuboth 111a.
    Why would Jesus return to the Jews in Israel when the Jews consider ''themselves'' the messiah?

    you seem to hold the Jews up high yet when I quote from their resources on what they state,it is not right with you......you Just blindly state the Jews are Israel,Israel this and Israel that making wrong conclusions......

    If they say the tribes must exist under a different name,according to the Jewish encyclopedia 1905--then why do you insist the Jews are the chosen people?(that is not a different name)

    The 1905 JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, Vol. 21, page 249 reads: "If the Ten Tribes have disappeared, they must exist UNDER A DIFFERENT NAME." Again, they must be a people NOT called "Jews."
     
  8. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Yeah, Jerusalem, in Israel.
    Only that God will fight for Israel.
    You can tell that to the enemies of Israel on Judgment Day. We'll see who they agree with then.
     
  9. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    Even if all that is true it doesn't change the FACT that Jesus will return to Jerusalem, Israel. It is special to God. Woe be unto their enemies.
     
  10. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    You are confused and confuse the issue.
     
  11. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    5
    Certainly someone comes so sow confusion, -- and I don't think it's "Duckybill". -- It's probably the other person and his ~spirit guide~.



    BibleScribe
     
  12. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    So tell us, where will Jesus return to, if not Jerusalem, Israel???
     
  13. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    That isn't the issue.

    The question was about Israel that you are confusing.



    And biblescribe needs to change his moniker for he is clueless commandment breaking slanderer and liar..
     
  14. BibleScribe

    BibleScribe Member

    Messages:
    983
    Likes Received:
    5

    LOLOL,

    DB, all I can say is that satan had no answer for Jesus, and he has no answer for you! :lol:

    Ref. Matt 4:1-11



    BS
     
  15. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    It certainly is the issue.

    Ezekiel 11:17-20 (NKJV)
    17 Therefore say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Iwill gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel." ' 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

    It is the people whom God has given the Land of Israel. All your speculating means nothing. God has raised the Nation of Israel from the dead to save them and to be His people.
     
  16. TheWarIs1

    TheWarIs1 New Member

    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    The topic is on JEWs not where Christ will return. I already agreed on the spot of his return which has little to do with modern Judaism or modern Jews.
    The question and issue Mr Rosenberger and Christian1488 were discussing was on the Jews and modern Israel vs old Israel.
    You continue getting side tracked.
     
  17. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    You are dealing in speculation. I am dealing in Biblical FACT. Most who speculate about Jews are attacking those of the Nation of Israel, to their own peril.
     
  18. Christian1488

    Christian1488 New Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    Are you saying the STATE of Israel is special to God?
    Out of all the places of the world,only a STATE is special to God?
    Israel was not a state until the late 1940's so how could it be special to God BEFORE the 1940's?
    If the USA stops supporting the state of Israel it will no longer be a state so how could it be special to God if it is only alive because of the USA?
    Are you going to say that a ''state'' that does not believe in Jesus and does not accept Christianity is somehow special to God?


    Israelis annually take part in a national pilgrimage to the grave of Simon ben Yohai, to honor this rabbi who advocated the extermination of non-Jews. (Jewish Press, June 9, 1989, p. 56B).

    Dr. Israel Shahak of Hebrew University reports that the Israelis burned hundreds of New Testament Bibles in occupied Palestine on March 23, 1980 (cf. Jewish History, Jewish Religion, p. 21).
     
  19. Duckybill

    Duckybill New Member

    Messages:
    3,417
    Likes Received:
    44
    I'm referring to the Nation of Israel. Capitol, Jerusalem.
    Have you never read the OT??? They were the ONLY Nation in the OT that God revealed Himself to.

    Psalms 147:19-20 (NKJV)
    19 He declares His word to Jacob, His statutes and His judgments to Israel. 20 He has not dealt thus with any nation; And as for His judgments, they have not known them. Praise the LORD!
    How many times must I quote Zech 14? Yes, they are VERY special to God. He brought them home to save them, not because they are saved.

    Ezekiel 36:24-28 (KJV)
    24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
    Their sinfulness has NOTHING to do with this. God is going to give them new hearts to serve Him. That's why He brought them back into their Land. See above.
     
    BibleScribe likes this.
  20. Christian1488

    Christian1488 New Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    1
    Israel is only a state,it is NOT a nation.It is a state supported by the USA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel - Israel
    If the USA stops supporting Israel,it would stop been a state,not a nation as it is NOT a nation but a state.
    http://www.churchoft...rg/index_1.html
    How come you keep calling Israel a nation when it is not a nation but a state?

    As for reading the OT,Are you going to say that MODERN Israel is OLD Israel?
    If you claim the modern Jews are Israel you are making a false connection....
    Read the marks of Israel,how do they connect with modern Israel and modern Jews?
    http://www.israelect...kMohr/JM050.htm - The marks of Israel

    23. Israel to have a new name. Isa. 62:2; 65:15; Hos. 2:17.
    29. Israel to lose all trace of her lineage. Isa. 42:16-19; Hos. 1:9, 10; 2:6; Rom. 11:25.

    How do those marks match modern Israel?Are you going to say it is some future event?


    How many times must I quote Zech 14? Yes, they are VERY special to God. He brought them home to save them, not because they are saved.

    Your arguments are weak,if the Jews do not believe in Jesus now,why would they believe in Jesus if he returns to modernJerusalem?
    Israel is an anti-christian state supported by a Christian country,look at the talmud,look at how Israeli TV portrays Christianity...are you going to say Jesus will return to people who do not believe in him instead of return to people who do believe in him?

    If you claim modern Jews are old Jews then read about antichrists...

    1 John 2:18:Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

    1 John 2:22:Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

    1 John 4:3:And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    2 John 1:7:For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

    The definition of antichrist/s connects with the Jews....

    Do you seriously think Jesus will return to the state of Israel, with it's many antichrists(plural) regardless of Their sinfulness,instead of returning to a christian people who actually believe in Jesus?

    "The Messiah [is] without metaphor the Jewish people" Kethuboth 111a.
    If the Jews consider themselves the messiah....read that talmud quote again and again and link it in to modern Israel.....
    Your arguments state that Jesus will return to people who will not fulfill anything in the Bible...read marks of Israel
    You argument is a false connection,blindly stating Israel is a nation when it is NOT.


    No matter how many times you say Israel is a nation,you make a false connection as it is only a state,supported by the USA,which could stop been a state if the USA decides to stop supporting Israel....


    http://www.sheldonem...ldjerusalem.pdf - The Old Jerusalem is not the New Jerusalem
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...