JOHN 3:1 ISRAEL MUST BE BORN AGAIN

[Fred J]

Yes Gentiles will enter the earthly Davidic kingdom but "neither Jews or Gentiles" is from Paul talking about the church, the Body of Christ, not the Davidic kingdom

There's no Davidic kingdom for Israel any longer and which is already 'history'.

And since Jesus Christ is the final and for ever King of Israel, it's Christ's Kingdom 'within you', within neither born again Jews and Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

GOD is the HEAD of Christ, and Christ is the Head of man, and man is the head of woman, for neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

Moreover Christ is the Head of the church, and the church is His body and members of it, neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

The dead in Christ shall rise and the living and remain, both will be changed and taken up in the 'first resurrection'.

And they are the martyrs or the persecuted, who shall reign with Christ for a moment or for ever, they are too neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

As for the 24 elders in Heaven are the 'patriarch of Israel', and to the house of Jacob/Israel, they are in a different standing in Heaven.

Remember in the Gospel it is written, no 'patriarch' before John the Baptist are greater than he, says Jesus.

But they in Christ who are least in the Kingdom, neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ, are greater than John the Baptist.

So please don't parade your 'twisted' and 'spun' to your hidden agenda device version here, for soon you'll be 'shipwrecked'.

 

[Gary Mac]

Oh yeah?
Prove it!

What am I thinking about now?

You are thinking that I dont have a clue what I am talking about.

 

[Gary Mac]

There's no Davidic kingdom for Israel any longer and which is already 'history'.

And since Jesus Christ is the final and for ever King of Israel, it's Christ's Kingdom 'within you', within neither born again Jews and Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

GOD is the HEAD of Christ, and Christ is the Head of man, and man is the head of woman, for neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

Moreover Christ is the Head of the church, and the church is His body and members of it, neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

The dead in Christ shall rise and the living and remain, both will be changed and taken up in the 'first resurrection'.

And they are the martyrs or the persecuted, who shall reign with Christ for a moment or for ever, they are too neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ.

As for the 24 elders in Heaven are the 'patriarch of Israel', and to the house of Jacob/Israel, they are in a different standing in Heaven.

Remember in the Gospel it is written, no 'patriarch' before John the Baptist are greater than he, says Jesus.

But they in Christ who are least in the Kingdom, neither Jews or Gentiles but are 'one' in Christ, are greater than John the Baptist.

So please don't parade your 'twisted' and 'spun' to your hidden agenda device version here, for soon you'll be 'shipwrecked'.

Because in lack of God coming into most claiming to be Christian and anointing them with His same Spirit of mind, all they see of Christ is a man and dont even consider that Christ is Gods anointing of His same Spirit of mind, knowldge, as our own.

It is very obvious when reading Matt 3:16 that Jesus didnt know Gods anointing at all or it would not have been written that God came to that man by the Spirit, knowledge, that He is and opens up His knowledge of all of who He is and all of His heaven in that man.

When we read of Adam who received that same knowldge from God himself proven in Gen 3:22, and same knowledge Adam received,, Moses received, Mary received, Jesus received, 120 received and all today receive who will, then Christ is risen from that dead state that religious minds puts a man into that never ever will come someday. How many millions has been waiting for a man named Jesus to come as a god someday for the last 2000 years and go to the grave never knowing the One true God who is at your door this day knocking and any man who will open it and receive Him He will come to you and sup with you and be in you, Rev 3:20. When one goes to the grave it is to late to know the God all of these we read of learned of from God Himself.

Christ is not flesh at all, Christ is Gods Spirit in man, anointed of His same knowledge. And ironic is it is so simple that mind of God to be His anointed. Christ in you simply would be Gods same Spirit of Love be in you, and in Love all those laws man tries to follow by they own is fulfilled where we actually become what those laws state that we actually should be as Jesus was in those laws, instead of just trying to be. It is who we become not what we try and be.

Either one is that person of Christ and perfect even as your Farther in heaven is perfect, anointed of God, or one is not and only trying to follow mans ideas for a god instead of listening to God Himself and receiving from Him as all of these did we read of who God came and anointed them with His same mind, Spirit, of Love to be our own spirit of mind, and walk in ti exactly as He walks in it.

Now we will hear from these religious minds, how none of that is true and a man is a god instead instead of Spirit and who they are supposed to be as Jesus was in God themselves won't we?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No I meant where does Paul use the exact words born again, Jesus did, you cant use other words to say they mean born again or use your Bible translation of words
If we needed to be born again for eternal life Paul should make it known....why doesnt he ever apply being born again to us?

He does. Just not on those exact words. You are straining at gnats to swallow camels. Pauls uses many similar phrases that all mean born from above!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Didnt Peter say that by his mouth Gentiles were saved see Acts 10

And your point?

 

[JohnDB]

You are thinking that I dont have a clue what I am talking about.

Nope....
Ummmm
Hate to break it to you but you don't rate that high on my list of things to ponder or think about.

I'm much more focused on stripping paint, the new airless sprayer I got a wonderful deal on, and how good my life has been these past several years. Then there's assisting my father who moved here this past winter....the Men's group meeting after summer break ends next week and the cookies I gotta bake. Then more sandwich bread & Sourdough English muffins to make and the Christian coffee club on Monday morning.

You don't have enough standing to fit in my head. I'm accustomed to people only using this board to "teach and never learn" (which is a sign of psychosis similar to what the Pharisees had going for them)

It's odd when someone takes note and searches to see if something I've said is true or provides actual logical reasoning to prove something I've said is wrong. You have done neither....so you are boring.

But I'm grateful for this opportunity to explain it about those of us who have been around for a while to those who haven't.
We, Who believe hermeneutics is of utmost importance. (And there is more than one way to skin a cat) Are accustomed to people like you and we really do not give you any regard. Too common for us to take notice in all reality. What you believe is also under similar consideration....you somehow have failed in learning the two most important commandments and how they apply....what they look like in action.
Ergo....the old axiom holds true:
No one cares what you know if they don't know how much you care about them.
You claim that you know what I'm thinking?

Uhhhhh.....that's rich!

 

[Marvelloustime]

Paul is not His God , pauline is my friend .
Many follow these other versions of a peter , or a paul , or a james
AND they sure do follow another jesus too .
JUST NOT THE TRUTH they wrote . Paul would have rebuked this pauline doctrine right outta any church he dared
to see preaching it .
James and paul DID NOT contradict each other , nor did peter , nor did john , jude
AND NONE of them contradicted CHRIST JESUS . Thems holy Spirit inspired words they wrote .
And beleive you me , the SPIRIT DONT contradict CHRIST . Things have not been going good in Christendome
for a very long time . And now in this last generation
the delusion of all delusions under the guise it is love and is of God has come to unite THE DECIEVED of christendom
WITH ALL the DECIEVED FALSE RELIGOINS . Things have went from bad to worse real fast too .
I seen rainbows
I Seen korans and budda statues getting kissing .
I see even IMAMS coming into churches TO ACTUALLY TEACH them what we all have in common .
I SEE A MASSIVE DELUSION is what i BE a SEEING and many seem to love it too .

@amigo de christo

 

[Doug]

He does. Just not on those exact words. You are straining at gnats to swallow camels. Pauls uses many similar phrases that all mean born from above!

Don't we know what concept is being conveyed by words?
If a word can mean something else other than the word itself, how do we know what is meant?
For example. if I want to say this food is bad, so I say this food is tasty, how can you know it means bad? Well I just say tasty really means bad.

So, point is Paul doesn't call the church the body of Christ is born again no matter how you want to massage scripture
If you want to go ahead

 

[Gary Mac]

@amigo de christo
View attachment 68063

When I read and compare what others said about Jesus from who Jesus said he was in God, I see many discrepancies.

The religious minds come to me with the ideas they have the way, they have the truth, , they have the life, and I read of this very thing from our own bibles for what man said about Jesus. These tell me I must believe this and that. But When I read of Jesus where he demand that I square my life with his standards of the same God be in me who was in Christ Jesus.

If the Spirit of God detects anything in you that is not real, mot exactly as Jesus was in God, God does not ask you to put it right, He asks that you accept His light of mind and He will put it right. Paul didnt have the way, Peter, James or John didnt have the way, Jesus had the way that I am to be in the Father of it, which simply is Love.

If you took everything out of the Bible for what man said about about him, and have only what Jesus said of himself and his God whoo sent him as example for you you are supposed to be inches same image, you would have a whole different gospel aside from mans opinions about it.

A child of Love that God is stands bared before his Father, A child of laws says I can explain it away, but when the light of God comes convictions of wrong ideas about God and Jesus come where God Himself will deal with what is wrong instead of you trying to explain away the realities of from your own ideas for who you are supposed to be as Jesus was clear we must be the same in the Father, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as Jesus was, from your own spirit of mind that is carnal. And one doesnt know he is carnal until you walk in the same light of God as Jesus did. Born again with that same renewing of mind Jesus received from God Himself in Matt 3:16.

The proof that a carnal mind is turned to Gods Spiritual Mind is, you will walk exactly as Jesus did in the same God who sent him no different at all. If you are different from who Jesus was in God, then you follow another instead, and it is very obvious many follow others ideas for they quote them far more then they quote Jesuswhe he explains who he was in God. And here is who Jesus said he was in God That most claiming christianity actually reject of Jesus by listening to others instead.

Most cant relate to the same in themselves at all, that is because they listen to others instead of Jesus.
John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

 

[Doug]

And your point?

You said...............
Well I guess you do not wish to see either teh millennial kingdom or the eternal kingdom by saying gentiles do not need to be born again. You need to study hermeneutics and practice sound exegesis.

Jesus did not say a Jew must be born again, He said humans must be born again. You are limiting humans to just the Jewish race. I think jesus is way smarter than you and would have said Jews only if He meant Jews only.

So now you are also excluding the teachings of Peter as applying to gentiles as well? Will you exclude Romans to all non Italians as well? After all I am not of Roman ancestry?

My point is that I am not excluding Gentiles from entering the kingdom.......how could I when Gentiles were evidently saved in Acts 10 by Peter's preaching.....those Gentiles were believers in the remnant of Israel and will enter the millennial kingdom

I am not saying Gentiles can't be saved.....I am saying that when they are they aren't called born again in scripture

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Don't we know what concept is being conveyed by words?
If a word can mean something else other than the word itself, how do we know what is meant?
For example. if I want to say this food is bad, so I say this food is tasty, how can you know it means bad? Well I just say tasty really means bad.

So, point is Paul doesn't call the church the body of Christ is born again no matter how you want to massage scripture
If you want to go ahead

Now you are just being argumentative.

Did you never learn in grammar about synonyms? Wordsa that are similar and describing the same thing with different but similar wordsa? or are you just being stubborn and nit picking?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You said...............
Well I guess you do not wish to see either teh millennial kingdom or the eternal kingdom by saying gentiles do not need to be born again. You need to study hermeneutics and practice sound exegesis.

Jesus did not say a Jew must be born again, He said humans must be born again. You are limiting humans to just the Jewish race. I think jesus is way smarter than you and would have said Jews only if He meant Jews only.

So now you are also excluding the teachings of Peter as applying to gentiles as well? Will you exclude Romans to all non Italians as well? After all I am not of Roman ancestry?

My point is that I am not excluding Gentiles from entering the kingdom.......how could I when Gentiles were evidently saved in Acts 10 by Peter's preaching.....those Gentiles were believers in the remnant of Israel and will enter the millennial kingdom

I am not saying Gentiles can't be saved.....I am saying that when they are they aren't called born again in scripture

Well I guess you should stop trying to read my mind- you suck at it. they are born again in Sripture.

If you kept verses in context and learned sound hermeneutics and exegesis you would not be so far off base and come up with these unbiblical theories.

Look at what Jesus said.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus said to be born froom above is to be born of the spirit. Are you saying you are not born of the spirit because you are not a Jew?

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Are you saying yo do not partake in this because you are not a Jew? so if men revile you for Jesus' sake you are not blessed????

Are you not chosen from teh foundation of the world to be in Jesus because you are not an ephesian?

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Are you not a sheep of jesus because He was speaking to Jews alone?

Before you write anything else please answer ther questions I asked of you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Well I guess you should stop trying to read my mind- you suck at it. they are born again in Sripture.

If you kept verses in context and learned sound hermeneutics and exegesis you would not be so far off base and come up with these unbiblical theories.

Look at what Jesus said.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Jesus said to be born froom above is to be born of the spirit. Are you saying you are not born of the spirit because you are not a Jew?

11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Are you saying yo do not partake in this because you are not a Jew? so if men revile you for Jesus' sake you are not blessed????

Are you not chosen from teh foundation of the world to be in Jesus because you are not an ephesian?

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Are you not a sheep of jesus because He was speaking to Jews alone?

Before you write anything else please answer ther questions I asked of you.

Me thinks that man has zero to no idea at all what he is conveying .
NOR that WHILE JESUS FIRST DID SPEAK TO THE JEWS
them same words , that same born again WOULD COME UPON THE BELIEVING GENTILE TOO .
This people will twist just about anything to beleive what it is they so desire to beleive .
AS THOUGH gentiles who beleive IN JESUS are not born again and as though paul never made mention of it .
YOU are correct on this matter my friend .

 

[Doug]

Now you are just being argumentative.

Did you never learn in grammar about synonyms? Wordsa that are similar and describing the same thing with different but similar wordsa? or are you just being stubborn and nitpicking?

You cant say a new man is a synonym for born again scripturally ..........this has become an accepted secular use of the term

 

[Doug]

Jesus said to be born froom above is to be born of the spirit. Are you saying you are not born of the spirit because you are not a Jew?

[Jhn 3:5 KJV] 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

This verse does not apply to me.......Jesus is talking about believing Israel entering the millennial kingdom

 

[Doug]

Are you saying yo do not partake in this because you are not a Jew? so if men revile you for Jesus' sake you are not blessed????

[Mat 5:10-11 KJV] 10 Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

In the sermon on the mount and these verses in particular, Jesus is talking about the millennial kingdom which was not promised to me..........I will be in the heavenly places

 

[Doug]

Are you not chosen from teh foundation of the world to be in Jesus because you are not an ephesian?

[Eph 1:4 KJV] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Those in the church today the body of Christ were chosen to be in Christ BEFORE the foundation

 

[Doug]

Are you not a sheep of jesus because He was speaking to Jews alone?

[Jer 50:17 KJV] 17 Israel [is] a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
[Mat 15:24 KJV] 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Israel are the sheep

 

[Gary Mac]

[Jer 50:17 KJV] 17 Israel [is] a scattered sheep; the lions have driven [him] away: first the king of Assyria hath devoured him; and last this Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon hath broken his bones.
[Mat 15:24 KJV] 24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Israel are the sheep

And most claiming Christianity are as the Jews were and are under the laws they have established to regulate their beliefs for a god, just different laws for regulations is all.

Even atheists has their own laws to regulate their beliefs for a god just as most religious minds do. their law is there is no god. The difference from one who follows Jesus in his ways in the Father are exactly as he was in God. Same mind be in us, same walk as he walks, same, perfections even as our Farther in heaven is perfect, Matt 5:48, holy, pure, and without sin, cannot sin because I am born of God just just as Jesus was in Matt 3:16 by the same Spirit be in me who was in Christ Jesus, 1 John 3:9.

Jews are not Christians they are Jews ad of the laws of, Catholics are not Christin they are Catholics by the laws of, Mormons are not Christian they are Mormons by the laws of, Baptists, Methodists, COCs, AOGs, you name it are of their own religion just as the jews, just different laws and different names to regulate their own ideas for a god.

It is a completely different matter when the same God of Love comes to you and opens in you who He is and all of His heaven in you as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16 and in that just as with Jesus, you will step out of those man made religious ideas for a god and you will become like the same One as Jesus became like only after Matt 3:16, before that he was of the laws of that denomination that he was rabbi of.

One will ask me if I am Christian, that term is so abused I only reply, I am a son of God if that is what you mean. I no longer use that term Christian for it has been so abused that the world can see right through it and want no part of mans regulatory ideas and condenation for a god or heaven that these religious minds cant even see themselves because their desire to be right and will not allow the truth from God Himself as Jesus received His truths proven in Matt 3:16.

Now I will hear from these religious minds I just spoke of how Jesus didnt need God to come to him and open up all of who He is and all of His heaven in that man even though it is very clear in the words written that He did.

And that my friends is the difference from religion under laws, and Christianity being anointed of God Himself as Jesus became instead of mans laws for a god.

 

[Doug]

Now you are just being argumentative.

Did you never learn in grammar about synonyms? Wordsa that are similar and describing the same thing with different but similar wordsa? or are you just being stubborn and nit picking?

[Jhn 3:3 KJV] 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Israel had to be born again to see the the kingdom of God, which is the Davidic millennial kingdom. The kingdom was being offered to Israel not me.