John 3:36- Better to Obey Jesus, or to Believe in Jesus?

[mailmandan]

Apparently, one is justified by faith AND by works.... and the man that believes justification is by faith only is a "vain" man.

There is no single justification by faith AND works. We are justified-accounted as righteous by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified-shown to be righteous by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context. It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* In context, we see that "faith only" per James 2:24 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Nobody is justified by a spurious faith.

Sounds like either Jesus is wrong or the so-called reformers are wrong since they teach an partial truth and leave the part out about works leaving the door open to sinful living (license to sin).

Martin Luther was a known drunk so I can see how he would want to leave the part about works out so he could continue drinking his beloved booze which is living in sin! (see 1 Corinthians 6:9-13)

Quite the quandary here... who shall we say is in error the Lord or the reformers??? That tis the question!
And many today believe in Him and still refuse to obey Him!

They've been taught greasy grace by eat tickling fake preachers.

You need to be concerned with your broad brushed slanderous remarks about the reformers, and your greasy grace derangement syndrome and leave the judging and condemning up to the Lord.

 

[amigo de christo]

Both. You can't do one without doing the other also and be saved.

Many have no idea sister . THEY actually beleive its possible to BELEIVE , TO LOVE JESUS
and walk in da rkness . What and who we love , what and who we believe
IS what and who WE OBEY and had done so from the heart .
And by simply reading the title which stated Which is better , TO BELIEVE or OBEY JESUS , i see we got serious problems n the house .
Abraham . Abraham BELEIVED GOD and by FAITH OBEYED GOD .
There is no WHICH IS BETTER to THAT . if one loves NOT they are doomed sister , for the LOVE of GOD is not in them .
AND when i say loves NOT , WHO loves NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST , has not the LOVE of GOD in them .
And now a word .
HE WHO LOVES ME KEEPS MY SAYINGS . They try so hard to seperate BELEIF and obediance , Faith and obediance ,
Love and obediance . THAT my dear sister is but vainity upon vainity .
FOR what a man believes , what he loves , THAT HE DOES . whether it be the f lesh he obeys , OR THE SPIRIT he obeys .
Heck i even heard some say
WHEN it comes to the BIBLE and love they chose to love . KINDA ODD sister .
For TRUTH is within them l ovely pages .
AND the last time i checked , CHARITY , aka LOVE , REJOICES IN THE TRUTH .
Always t rying to find ways around that which they clearly DO NOT LOVE
and to support that which they do love . What many do not love IS THE TRUTH
because TRUTH always exposes what they do love , THEIR SIN .

 

[amigo de christo]

There is no single justification by faith AND works. We are justified-accounted as righteous by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified-shown to be righteous by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context. It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* In context, we see that "faith only" per James 2:24 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Nobody is justified by a spurious faith.

You need to be concerned with your broad brushed slanderous remarks about the reformers, and your greasy grace derangement syndrome and leave the judging and condemning up to the Lord.

man will do what man surely loveth .
Sheep do what JESUS said to , FOR THE LOVE OF GOD IS IN THEM and they love and embrace THE TRUTH .
The problem with man , IS HIS HEART .
And why do you THINK we have so many flesh pleasing sermons my friend .
And why is TRUTH being silenced within such places ........
TRUTH does something .
TRUTH would expose something .
But you see many have no desire FOR TRUTH
because it exposes what they do so dearly love .
THEIR SIN . and they will go to great extremes to find and to hear
whatso ever jesus , god , preacher , that does so present them THIS OTHER image OF said GOD and of SAID JESUS .
For they have not the LOVE of THE TRUTH but only the love of the world .
What we love and WHO we love is clearly seen . Though GOD and HIS CHRIST
are invisible to our eyes , HIS WORDS are quite visible in that bible .
AND if a man or a woman has a problem with SUCH WORDS , BELIEVE you me THEY HAVE a problem
WITH HE WHO INSPIRED such beauty and lovey words .
Something this all inclusive ecumeincal generation better LEARN RIGHT QUICK , seeing they follow another god
that has come in its own name , TO DENY The true peace of GOD , THE LOVE of GOD ,
THE ONLY gospel of GOD , for the sake of A FAT LIE .
LIGHT exposes my friend , LIGHT does not hold hands with the darkness
IT WOULD have exposed that WHICH IS IN THE DARKNESS . but many know not at what they Stumble
and have stumbled , FOR THEY WALK in the darkness . OH its BIBLE time in the house all right .

 

[amigo de christo]

There is no single justification by faith AND works. We are justified-accounted as righteous by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified-shown to be righteous by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context. It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* In context, we see that "faith only" per James 2:24 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Nobody is justified by a spurious faith.

You need to be concerned with your broad brushed slanderous remarks about the reformers, and your greasy grace derangement syndrome and leave the judging and condemning up to the Lord.

Time for the parable of he who has put darkness for light and knows not at that which he do stumble
for the darkness has blinded his eyes .
There once dwelt a man who daily went about always stumbling , always falling .
He lived in the dark of the night .
Then one day along came another man who held a great and mighty beam of light , a wonderous FLASH LIGHT .
And the other man bought that great light from that man .
Then as he went about walking , HOLDING THE LIGHT , SHINING THE LIGHT , HE could see
every obstacle that lay IN THE DARKNESS and no longer did he stumble .
THAT IS WHAT LIGHT DOES DAN . IT reveals and it exposes and it giveth LIGHT to the eyes
WHAT IT DONT DO IS NOT EXPOSING . LIGHT maketh manifest DAN . IT reproves .
And anything and everything in the darkness , IT KEEPS its sheep safe and far from .
IF the light that be in one DOES NOT expose sins , does not reprove
but rather says judge not and even accepts and calls love and lov ing that which be CONTRARY TO GOD .
THEN THE LIGHT BE DARKNESS , AND NOT THE LIGHT OF GOD at all .

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Many have no idea sister . THEY actually beleive its possible to BELEIVE , TO LOVE JESUS
and walk in da rkness . What and who we love , what and who we believe
IS what and who WE OBEY and had done so from the heart .
And by simply reading the title which stated Which is better , TO BELIEVE or OBEY JESUS , i see we got serious problems n the house .
Abraham . Abraham BELEIVED GOD and by FAITH OBEYED GOD .
There is no WHICH IS BETTER to THAT . if one loves NOT they are doomed sister , for the LOVE of GOD is not in them .
AND when i say loves NOT , WHO loves NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST , has not the LOVE of GOD in them .
And now a word .
HE WHO LOVES ME KEEPS MY SAYINGS . They try so hard to seperate BELEIF and obediance , Faith and obediance ,
Love and obediance . THAT my dear sister is but vainity upon vainity .
FOR what a man believes , what he loves , THAT HE DOES . whether it be the f lesh he obeys , OR THE SPIRIT he obeys .
Heck i even heard some say
WHEN it comes to the BIBLE and love they chose to love . KINDA ODD sister .
For TRUTH is within them l ovely pages .
AND the last time i checked , CHARITY , aka LOVE , REJOICES IN THE TRUTH .
Always t rying to find ways around that which they clearly DO NOT LOVE
and to support that which they do love . What many do not love IS THE TRUTH
because TRUTH always exposes what they do love , THEIR SIN .

Amen, brother!

 

[Dan Clarkston]

You need to be concerned with your broad brushed slanderous remarks about the reformers, and your greasy grace derangement syndrome and leave the judging and condemning up to the Lord.

Yeah the tares are always offended when they get called out for the fake "gospel"

Thank you for sharing you are a follower of the reformers.

This explains the false doctrine that you continually espouse.

 

[GracePeace]

There is no single justification by faith AND works. We are justified-accounted as righteous by faith and not by works (Romans 4:2-6) and justified-shown to be righteous by works. (James 2:21,24) The Greek word for justified has more than one meaning, depending on the context. It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24-26; 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony* In context, we see that "faith only" per James 2:24 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains barren of works. (James 2:14) That is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. Nobody is justified by a spurious faith.

You need to be concerned with your broad brushed slanderous remarks about the reformers, and your greasy grace derangement syndrome and leave the judging and condemning up to the Lord.

I really wish you "faith alone" people had a better way of understanding and explaining Scripture--one that had any coherence at all--because you really do have a great treasure to share, knowing Jesus, but you can't help anyone who actually reads the Bible, because they can see you are flat out wrong, even if God, in His mercy, does give you eternal life.

 

[mailmandan]

Yeah the tares are always offended when they get called out for the fake "gospel"

Thank you for sharing you are a follower of the reformers.

This explains the false doctrine that you continually espouse.

Again, OSAS vs NOSAS is not the gospel. Do you even understand what the gospel IS and also what it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) It sounds to me like you are the one peddling a fake gospel, which is wrapped up in works righteousness and slander. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not the reformers. It's not your place to judge and condemn everyone who believes certain teachings from reformed theology. You are not the judge of the universe. I am only offended by your slander (false accuser of the brethren) and not your childish troll behavior. Being an agitator seems to come very natural for you. Its just who you are which is also very telling.

 

[mailmandan]

I really wish you "faith alone" people had a better way of understanding and explaining Scripture--one that had any coherence at all--because you really do have a great treasure to share, knowing Jesus, but you can't help anyone who actually reads the Bible, because they can see you are flat out wrong, even if God, in His mercy, does give you eternal life.

Do you understand the difference between authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works? (James 2:14-24)

 

[GracePeace]

Do you understand the difference between authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works? (James 2:14-24)

1. I understand what you mean by this purported dichotomy.
2. I reject the false dichotomy.

 

[mailmandan]

1. I understand what you mean by this purported dichotomy.
2. I reject the false dichotomy.

Then you reject the truth.

 

[GracePeace]

Do you understand the difference between authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works? (James 2:14-24)

It's not even an issue of "faith alone versus faith and works", it's, literally, just the plain bare facts of what is written in Scripture. Literal logic. If it were any other issue, I'd have the same objection--"You are being incoherent."

In my understanding you all are hitting upon a very important--and, perhaps, THE MOST IMPORTANT--aspect of what is written (and that's why I wish you could harmonize your "takes" on this aspect with the other aspects of Scripture), but I cannot ignore one Biblical truth in order to acknowledge one other Biblical truth. I have to acknowledge ALL of them (to the best of my ability).

 

[GracePeace]

Then you reject the truth.

Like I said--and I meant it from the heart, I didn't say it emptily--I REALLY wish you all could, because you have Christ, explain Scriptures in a coherent way... but... God does what He wants.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

I really wish you "faith alone" people had a better way of understanding and explaining Scripture--one that had any coherence at all--because you really do have a great treasure to share, knowing Jesus, but you can't help anyone who actually reads the Bible, because they can see you are flat out wrong, even if God, in His mercy, does give you eternal life.

It take a considerable amount of effort to keep all the chicanery together.

It's like a full time job with these people, and God's Word does not teach that false teachers are rewarded with going to Heaven after having deceived others in to not going to Heaven. Just so you know.

I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not the reformers

If you say so

I reject the false dichotomy

Good, because their false dichotomy led to their spiritual lobotomy

Like I said--and I meant it from the heart, I didn't say it emptily--I REALLY wish you all could, because you have Christ, explain Scriptures in a coherent way... but... God does what He wants.

If they had Christ as you say then the Holy Spirit would be leading them and they wouldn't be all confused and in opposition to what the Lord teaches in His Word.

 

[amigo de christo]

Again, OSAS vs NOSAS is not the gospel. Do you even understand what the gospel IS and also what it means to BELIEVE the gospel? (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) It sounds to me like you are the one peddling a fake gospel, which is wrapped up in works righteousness and slander. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and not the reformers. It's not your place to judge and condemn everyone who believes certain teachings from reformed theology. You are not the judge of the universe. I am only offended by your slander (false accuser of the brethren) and not your childish troll behavior. Being an agitator seems to come very natural for you. Its just who you are which is also very telling.

So let us hear that glorious gospel again . The one which clearly states ONE MUST BELIEVE on JESUS .
And let none have any part in this other big sell , which darn sure aint the gospel and calls GOD a liar .
Commonly known as ecumeincal interfaith interrelgious dialogue .
Cause , my dear friend , IT SOLD A LIE to all . And we sure dont want any part , or to be a co helper to that .
Now to the trenches one and all . FOR SOON the cry will be made
by which the ecumenical phase will become the crusade phase .

 

[Marvelloustime]

So let us hear that glorious gospel again . The one which clearly states ONE MUST BELIEVE on JESUS .
And let none have any part in this other big sell , which darn sure aint the gospel and calls GOD a liar .
Commonly known as ecumeincal interfaith interrelgious dialogue .
Cause , my dear friend , IT SOLD A LIE to all . And we sure dont want any part , or to be a co helper to that .
Now to the trenches one and all . FOR SOON the cry will be made
by which the ecumenical phase will become the crusade phase .

@amigo de christo

 

[Ronald Nolette]

In John 3:3, Jesus says to Nicodemus the Pharisee who ‘rules the Jews,’ “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Whereupon in Verse 4 Nicodemus asks, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”

The question Nicodemus asks reflects an earthly mind, one that may only conceive of things he knows that are on earth. His thinking may reflect the Jewish objective of abiding by all God’s Laws in the OT. One may note that in Leviticus and Deuteronomy there isn’t as much mention of spirituality as there is in the NT. Seems that the only thing that is intangible in nature and addressed by God in the OT is one’s future. Submitted for your approval is Deuteronomy 28:1–6 which says, “And if you faithfully obey the voice of the LORD your God, being careful to do all his commandments that I command you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations of the earth. And all these blessings shall come upon you and overtake you, if you obey the voice of the LORD your God. Blessed shall you be in the city, and blessed shall you be in the field. Blessed shall be the fruit of your womb and the fruit of your ground and the fruit of your cattle, the increase of your herds and the young of your flock. Blessed shall be your basket and your kneading bowl. Blessed shall you be when you come in, and blessed shall you be when you go out.”

Passages like those are what the Pharisees and other devoted Jews have learned and abided by. No mention here of spirituality and what awaits in Heaven. Easy to surmise how both can be beyond the understanding of Nicodemus and others who, with the exception of being taught about God, were not taught or indoctrinated on things they can’t see. So, whereas Christians may find amusing the question Nicodemus asks in Verse 4, a Jew in that time would be thinking ‘That’s what I’D like to know!’

That is not to say that all Jews are inflexible: it is obvious that after some initial confusion amongst Jesus’ Jewish disciples as to what Jesus meant when he said certain things that at first glance sounds more like riddles in what he was teaching them, they caught on.
Which brings us to the curious Verse, John 3:36.

Different Bibles have their own version of what this Verse says. The English Standard Version says, “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not OBEY the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.” The New King James Version says, “He who BELIEVES in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Within the Verses of John 3:1-36, Jesus explains to Nicodemus what it is to be born again. Much of what Jesus says here centers on the spirituality of being born again, as in Verses 5 and 6 in which he says, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”

Where is the spiritualness in OBEYING someone like Jesus? Wouldn’t it be more in line with the spirit if we BELIEVED in Jesus? Seems that believing in Jesus encompasses more then just an earthly notion of merely obeying him. One can obey someone else without giving it much thought or examining the command in terms of one’s own experiences. But to believe in someone involves expanding on what one is aware of, and it would involve engaging one’s feelings toward believing in someone. So, it would seem we have a better chance of being born again by believing in Jesus, instead of merely obeying Jesus, n’est ce pas?

The answer isn't either/or but both/and. Believing in Jesus causes us to seek to obey Him.

 

[amigo de christo]

Do you understand the difference between authentic faith that trusts in Jesus Christ "alone" for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and a bare profession of faith that remains "alone" barren of works? (James 2:14-24)

faith that trusts in JESUS ALONE for salvation . SOUNDS GENUINE TO ME my friend .
But speaking of this , HOW MANY REALLY DO HAVE THIS FAITH .
Now do allow me to explain .
Mailman dan , i see so many cliaming to have this faith in JESUS . UNTIL
it comes to all these other relgoins having to believe. THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN , I GUESS FAITH IN JESUS NO LONGER APPLIES .
Guess what that means mailman dan . IT MEANS THEY ONLY BELIEVED A LIE ALL ALONG
CAUSE we cannot T RULY BELIEVE ONE MUST BLEIEVE , and yet all of a sudden give a pass .
EITHER WE BELIEVE FROM THE HEART ONE MUST
or we DONT . But cant be both dan . cant be both . AND NO way , no shape , no form
DO THEM OTHER religoins serve the SAME GOD I DO .
AND you wanna know HOW i know that , WITHOUT EVEN A GLIMMER of doubt .
CAUSE IF THEY DID , THEY WOULD BE SERVING AND BELIEVEING IN THE SAME JESUS I DO .
In fact you wanna know what else i know , WITHOUT A glimmer of a doubt .
ALL who BELIEVE NOT ON JESUS , CALL GOD A LIAR . THEY aint serving and coming to him with hugs and budda
hugs and muhammed . THEY call HIM , AKA G OD A LIAR .
and that i can easily prove with JESUS own words
as well as the apostels . NAMELY john . IF any man BELIEVES NOT
the testimony of GOD that HE gave OF the SON , HE MAKETH GOD A LIAR . and you gotta know dan , THERE BE NO TRUTH In that one .
JESUS well said . HE who recieves HIS testimony has set to his Seal that GOD IS TRUE .
SO , now ya know why i warn relentlessly against the false love of a harlot and her eucmeincal peace plan of intefaith .
THEY LIE dan . THEY LIE TO EVERY MAN WOMAN AND CHILD , EVERY RELIGOIN as well as christendom .
And you know full well where liars end up . AND CALLIN GOD A LIAR , well lets just say GOD DONT LIE .
THEY the liar .

 

[amigo de christo]

It's not even an issue of "faith alone versus faith and works", it's, literally, just the plain bare facts of what is written in Scripture. Literal logic. If it were any other issue, I'd have the same objection--"You are being incoherent."

In my understanding you all are hitting upon a very important--and, perhaps, THE MOST IMPORTANT--aspect of what is written (and that's why I wish you could harmonize your "takes" on this aspect with the other aspects of Scripture), but I cannot ignore one Biblical truth in order to acknowledge one other Biblical truth. I have to acknowledge ALL of them (to the best of my ability).

Totally trusting JESUS for salvation is about the most lovely pure and holy thing one can do .
However , if one cliams to and yet has vile dead works , YOU GOTS to know they only lip the name
and at most use the gospel as a means to , Live in sin and feel saved . A lie of course .

 

[Marvelloustime]

Time for the parable of he who has put darkness for light and knows not at that which he do stumble
for the darkness has blinded his eyes .
There once dwelt a man who daily went about always stumbling , always falling .
He lived in the dark of the night .
Then one day along came another man who held a great and mighty beam of light , a wonderous FLASH LIGHT .
And the other man bought that great light from that man .
Then as he went about walking , HOLDING THE LIGHT , SHINING THE LIGHT , HE could see
every obstacle that lay IN THE DARKNESS and no longer did he stumble .
THAT IS WHAT LIGHT DOES DAN . IT reveals and it exposes and it giveth LIGHT to the eyes
WHAT IT DONT DO IS NOT EXPOSING . LIGHT maketh manifest DAN . IT reproves .
And anything and everything in the darkness , IT KEEPS its sheep safe and far from .
IF the light that be in one DOES NOT expose sins , does not reprove
but rather says judge not and even accepts and calls love and lov ing that which be CONTRARY TO GOD .
THEN THE LIGHT BE DARKNESS , AND NOT THE LIGHT OF GOD at all .

@amigo de christo