John 6 and the bread from heaven

[Eternally Grateful]

Welcome to the ignore list

Thank you..

I will pray for you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Gospel is PART of the New Covenant. Jesus never said to eat the Gospel. One an choose to go along with what was not formally contested for 11+ centuries, or follow the innovative traditions of men. It is by supernatural faith to realize the Real Presence Of Jesus in the consecrated Bread and Wine, not by arguing in forums. Anyone can have supernatural faith, but you have to cooperate with God's grace.

Eucharistic Index - The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

Introduction to the Eucharist, the Eucharist in Scripture, the Eucharist and Vatican II, Eucharistic Miracles, the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration, and evidence proving that the Early Christians believed in the Real Presence.

www.therealpresence.org

Jesus in John 1 3 4 5 and 6 said the same thing, gave the same message

He did tell us to look, and see his words. And believe in them

and whoever did, these words of live would give them eternal life.

do you want to discuss John 6?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As common an idea as this is, it is not a known fact. In fact, we don't know for sure who wrote any of the gospels. Since you are focusing on traditions, it's only fair to mention that it is a traditionally held opinion to attribute the four gospels to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John-- without knowing for sure. Is it possible? Sure. Could it be some other Matthew, and not the tax collector disciple? Sure. Could Mark have been written by the disciple named John, who was called Mark? Sure. Could there have been more than one John? For certain. Just as there was more than one James and even Jesus. (Joshua). The gospel of John is distinctly different than the three other gospels called synoptic (seen together) accounts.

There are highly regarded scholars who have posited that the gospel of John was recorded by someone named John, but the one the gospel calls the beloved disciple was actually none other than Mary Magdelene, and this gospel is her account of recollections and musings about Jesus and his life. The point is, it's not settled and it doesn't matter.

I look forward to your posts and conclusions. Don't be so hasty about the latter.

I agree

lets just listen to the words

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

It does not matter who penned it, in the end, It is God who told them what to right..

Thats why we can be confident in what it says. Because it is like hearing the words directly from the mouth of God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm curious. Why did you choose to start in John 3 if you are wanting full context? You plucked one single concept out of a myriad presented in John 1, then skipped John 2 entirely, to begin in John 3? Why?

Don't you think there is anything important presented in John 1 or 2? For example-- It's recorded that Jesus was confronted in the temple courts by the Jewish leaders who were demanding some sort of sign from him since he was presenting himself as some sort of prophet-- tipping over the tables and driving out the money lenders and such.... He said destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in three days.

But Jesus was speaking about the temple of his body. So after he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this, and they believed the scripture and the saying that Jesus had spoken.

And that's key context. Even those who were the very closest to him didn't believe and receive until after he was raised from the dead. This is so important and it's a set up for the conversation to come with Nicodemus regarding what it means to be born again. Not stated, but contextually, being born again, requires the destruction of your temple. You have to first die, to be born again. You won't dig this out of anyone's "traditions" that I know of.

Because I do not see anything in the rest of John 1 or 2 which would add to the conversation.

The next time I see jesus give the gospel is to Nicodemus in John 3.

Also. He gave the gospel after John 6, so I just picked 6 general accounts which I thought fit together like a glove.

(I have actually been leading a discussion on John with some newer men in our church, at a mens bible study or cell group. Or discipleship gathering (whatever your particular church calls it) so it is fresh on my mind, I am actually starting John 6 this tuesday. (i was supposed to do it last tuesday, but a few of us were prety ill so we cancelled)

but it is fresh in my mind, and since we are just going through it together. I saw a lot of these peace’s fitting together like A glove, in fact, one of the gentleman said these very words in excitement)

 

[Ziggy]

The next concern I have is regarding "traditions"
And whose traditions, and what are those traditions?
Jesus chastised the Pharisees and Saducess for not keeping the commandments of God but rather the trditions of men.
So when I see Paul say they need to keep the traditions..
I have to question, who's what where and why?

Maybe we can bring this up in another thread, or carry on with it.
@Eternally Grateful I'll leave that for you to decide.
Hugs

 

[Illuminator]

I hear you Illuminator,

No, you don't. You could at least brows the link I posted. We are discussing the Eucharist, not your off topic flawed view of Tradition.

But my faith doesn't rest in anything physical in this world. My faith is in the Lord who's presence is felt in my heart and soul through the Holy Spirit.
Everything in this world is only temporal.

There is no physicality in the Bible?
The human mind, and perhaps especially the `spiritual’ mind, has a deep-running suspicion of anything that really does bridge the gulf between spirit and matter . . . All transcendentalists, logicians, Buddhists, and Manichaeans hate this sort of thing. We must keep spirit and matter in two different realms, they urge.

Here's another link you won't read.

How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism

There have been a number of stories in the news lately of small Satanic groups publicly performing so-called “Black Masses.” These rituals are based on the Catholic mass but are inverted toward Satan and often involve the desecration of a Eucharistic host. This sort of thing is evil and should

www.churchpop.com

Out of hundreds of Eucharistic Miracles throughout history, this one is my favorite.

Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

• The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
  
  
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
  
  
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
  
  
• The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
  
  
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
  
  
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
  
  
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

	Fig. 1 - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.
	Fig. 2 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.
	Fig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the "Rough" aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue
	Fig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Below: hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right,with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to AB blood group.
	Fig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

Eucharistic Miracles

Documented Eucharistic Miracles that have been approved by the Catholic Church. Presents evidence attesting to their authenticity.

www.therealpresence.org

 

[Ziggy]

No, you don't. You could at least brows the link I posted. We are discussing the Eucharist, not your off topic flawed view of Tradition.

There is no physicality in the Bible?
The human mind, and perhaps especially the `spiritual’ mind, has a deep-running suspicion of anything that really does bridge the gulf between spirit and matter . . . All transcendentalists, logicians, Buddhists, and Manichaeans hate this sort of thing. We must keep spirit and matter in two different realms, they urge.

Here's another link you won't read.

How the Satanic Black Mass Proves the Truth of Catholicism

There have been a number of stories in the news lately of small Satanic groups publicly performing so-called “Black Masses.” These rituals are based on the Catholic mass but are inverted toward Satan and often involve the desecration of a Eucharistic host. This sort of thing is evil and should

www.churchpop.com

Out of hundreds of Eucharistic Miracles throughout history, this one is my favorite.

Ancient Anxanum, the city of the Frentanese, has contained for over twelve centuries the first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church. This wondrous Event took place in the 8th century A.D. in the little Church of St. Legontian, as a divine response to a Basilian monk's doubt about Jesus' Real Presence in the Eucharist.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size.

The Host-Flesh, as can be very distinctly observed today, has the same dimensions as the large host used today in the Latin church; it is light brown and appears rose-colored when lighted from the back.

The Blood is coagulated and has an earthy color resembling the yellow of ochre.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

• The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
  
  
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
  
  
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
  
  
• The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
  
  
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
  
  
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
  
  
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

	Fig. 1 - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.
	Fig. 2 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.
	Fig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the "Rough" aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue
	Fig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Below: hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right,with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to AB blood group.
	Fig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

Eucharistic Miracles

Documented Eucharistic Miracles that have been approved by the Catholic Church. Presents evidence attesting to their authenticity.

www.therealpresence.org

ok before you get upset.. please continue with the posts Ive been posting.
I have questions maybe you can help me find the answers.
Thankyou..

Patience is a virtue..


Hugs

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have really been praying about the cup.

And Jesus says... it is his blood. Or it represents his blood in that cup.

The only Gospel connection I can make is the very cup Jesus asked his Father to remove from him 3 times.
If I look in the OT, this cup is filled with the wrath of God.

There was a bit of a discussion going on between James and John mother as to who would be seated at the Lord;s right and left hands.
Jesus says to her:


Mat 20:20
Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him.
Mat 20:21
And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.
Mat 20:22
But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.
Mat 20:23
And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.

This sounds a bit more ominous than simply drinking water from the well.

Jesus cried:
Luk 22:42
Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

He did this 3 times. And after the third time:

Luk 22:43
And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
Luk 22:44
And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

I believe that it is this blood, this sweat that Jesus is referring to at supper.
The Apostles are going to have to die for him.

Peter knowing what is going to happen promises that he will die for him.
And Jesus says:

Mat 26:33
Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
Mat 26:34
Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
Mat 26:35
Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.

Jesus took Peter, James and John aside, and he said:
Mat 26:38
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
Mat 26:39
And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Now I don't want to go too deep here, because sometimes I still need the training wheels.
So I will try to explain this how I am hearing it.
Jesus came to take the sin of the people (his people) upon himself. We say "sin" wrapped up nicely in a three letter word.
But in Ezekiel chapter 23... (23 is one of those numbers in the bible, like the 23rd Psalm)
Chapter 23 in Ezekiel lays out the sins of Jerusalem.
And you can see through the Gospels how Jesus is calling them out while he is walking among them.

It's longer than what I'm going to post. But the whole chapter is relevant to the very sin Jesus was going to take upon himself for the sake of his children...


Eze 23:28
For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will deliver thee into the hand of them whom thou hatest, into the hand of them from whom thy mind is alienated:
Eze 23:29
And they shall deal with thee hatefully, and shall take away all thy labour, and shall leave thee naked and bare: and the nakedness of thy whoredoms shall be discovered, both thy lewdness and thy whoredoms.
Eze 23:30
I will do these things unto thee, because thou hast gone a whoring after the heathen, and because thou art polluted with their idols.
Eze 23:31
Thou hast walked in the way of thy sister; therefore will I give her cup into thine hand.
Eze 23:32
Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou shalt drink of thy sister's cup deep and large: thou shalt be laughed to scorn and had in derision; it containeth much.
Eze 23:33
Thou shalt be filled with drunkenness and sorrow, with the cup of astonishment and desolation, with the cup of thy sister Samaria.

All the sins that had been committed from the day they were taken from Egypt, until the day Jesus came, were put on him.

Isa 53:5
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

I believe that it is this very cup of sorrow that was distributed among the disciples that night. The same night his body broke sweat in what appeared as great droplets of blood.

Luk 22:14
And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
Luk 22:15
And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:
Luk 22:16
For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.
Luk 22:17
And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:
Luk 22:18
For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Luk 22:21
But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
Luk 22:22
And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!

The deeper you go, the more you hear...
The easier the balancing becomes, the less you need the training wheels.
But somethings take a lot of prayer.

continued:

This is the cup. The blood he shed for us..

I agree, it started that night when he sweat blood due to the fear he had.

No one can comprehend what jesus went though on that day.. I am not sure we ever will. What is it that could take Jesus to the point of being so anxious that we sweat blood.

Remember one thing, though all the beatings, through all the maligning. Even getting nailed to the cross. He spoke not a word (well he did say “it is as you say” and “father forgive them, they know what they do”

so what was it on the 9th hour that Causes jesus to SCREAM when all the torture and pain inflicted on him did not cause him to say a word.

I think people forget the true payment.. And to think it is all because of me.. Makes me cry every time I think about it..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The next concern I have is regarding "traditions"
And whose traditions, and what are those traditions?
Jesus chastised the Pharisees and Saducess for not keeping the commandments of God but rather the trditions of men.
So when I see Paul say they need to keep the traditions..
I have to question, who's what where and why?

Maybe we can bring this up in another thread, or carry on with it.
@Eternally Grateful I'll leave that for you to decide.
Hugs

I would say how does this help us understand John 6?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, you don't. You could at least brows the link I posted. We are discussing the Eucharist, not your off topic flawed view of Tradition.

Um, no we are discussing John 6. And all of it. Not 5 verses people want to focus on calling it the Eucharist.

Would you like to discuss John 6. Or some tradition?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well I caught up.. some good things I saw and some worrysome things I saw.

Praying we get back on topic.. What is this bread from heaven that gives everyone who eats it eternal life. This food that endures forever..

 

[Ziggy]

And to think it is all because of me.. Makes me cry every time I think about it..

I agree that we bear our fair share of the sin in the world.
But Jesus came to save Israel first. We have to keep that in mind.
They were supposed to lead us all to God, but they failed.
And all these sins happened because they led us all astray.
They followed after the gentiles and their gods, and their traditions.
I am not saying we are faultless and do not deserve our share of stripes.
We have within ourselves the knowledge of good and evil.
And we choose through the span of our own lifetimes to listen or not.

But the consequences of knowing what your purpose is and not doing it, is far worse than not knowing it and doing it.
And Israel has a greater share of the blame because they were given the oracles of God to pass down.

Now it falls on us as well the Gentiles, because we have been taught, we have been warned.
And if we stray there is noone left to blame but ourselves and the ones that are supposed to be leading us in the right direction.

It's not ALL because of you. We ALL share a part in the entire story of Life.
Hugs

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sadly,

I think some people forgot the topic of this thread.

There could many reasons why.. They did not really read the opening topic. They came in halfway through

They came in with a preconcieved notion of what the thread was about. And

Or they read a lot of posts before they decided they would jump in, And did not realise they were off topic.

This is part of my opening post.

This thread was in response to @Augustin56 who made a comment. And I wanted to discuss that comment further

A few of us have been discussing John 6 and the roman church with @Marymog and @Augustin56 in the thread if you think mary remained.....

In this thread, @Augustin56 said the following about the bible
@augustione said Jesus trained and formed men to spread His message. He didn't write a book to be self-interpreted to do so.

My reply to him was that God did not give us a letter that we could not read. In fact. John tells us that the words are written to us so we may not be deceived

I then used an example to try to prove my point

using two formulas. Anyone can tell which teacher is teaching the correct formula, and which teacher is leading their students astray (2+2 = 4 and 2+ 2 = 5

So this thread was to @Augustin56 , and I invited @Marymog if she wanted to join in since we were discussing John 6

My thread is about proving I can read John 6 and understand what it says. Without the help of anyone or anything

For this op. I HAD to keep it to John 6. If I went outside of John 6. I in effect proved myself wrong, and destroyed my own argument. (Was this what they wanted me to do? I will not assume)

I also. Said if this use wanted. We could go to ther passages later, But my focus was John 6. Because in order to prove my point, I had to stick to John 6 alone.. The OP limited the discussion to John 6 as it was written..

Anyway, If anyone would like to look at John 6 and show me why I can not read it and understand it as written. I am all ears..

I also this morning opened it up by showing I can go to other passages, and show how my interpretation of John 6 using John 6 alone is not only confirmed, But appears to show I am correct in my thinking I can interpret this passage, because it is not as hard as some people make it out to be.

If anyone would like to discuss that I am open to discussin those verses also.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I agree that we bear our fair share of the sin in the world.
But Jesus came to save Israel first. We have to keep that in mind.
They were supposed to lead us all to God, but they failed.
And all these sins happened because they led us all astray.
They followed after the gentiles and their gods, and their traditions.
I am not saying we are faultless and do not deserve our share of stripes.
We have within ourselves the knowledge of good and evil.
And we choose through the span of our own lifetimes to listen or not.

But the consequences of knowing what your purpose is and not doing it, is far worse than not knowing it and doing it.
And Israel has a greater share of the blame because they were given the oracles of God to pass down.

Now it falls on us as well the Gentiles, because we have been taught, we have been warned.
And if we stray there is noone left to blame but ourselves and the ones that are supposed to be leading us in the right direction.

It's not ALL because of you. We ALL share a part in the entire story of Life.
Hugs

Amen,

But my sins were hung on that cross also.. So I am just as guilty.

John the baptist said behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world..

 

[Ziggy]

Jhn 6:26
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

cross with this:

Amo 8:11
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

3 times:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mar 13:31
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luk 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The food that endureth unto everlasting life, are his words that shall not pass away.

Heaven and earth shall pass away....

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Isa 29:6
Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

but my words shall not pass away:

Isa 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

There is no new without the old. Like a hand in glove.

Jhn 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 

[Illuminator]

Thank you for taking the time to view the full video presentation by Dr. Brant Pitre on "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist". In this presentation, you will explore the Eucharist as the New Passover, the New Manna from Heaven, and the mysterious New 'Bread of the Presence.' If you are looking to deepen your faith in and understanding of the inexhaustible treasure that is the Eucharist, then this talk is for you. In this exciting talk, Dr. Pitre shines the light of the Old Testament and ancient Judaism on the words and deeds of Jesus to reveal the amazingly Jewish roots of the Eucharist. Using his in-depth knowledge of Jewish messianic expectations, Dr. Pitre shows how the hope for a New Exodus and the coming of the Messiah proves that Jesus really did intend to give us the Eucharist, and it is nothing less than the gift of Himself, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Jhn 6:26
Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Jhn 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

cross with this:

Amo 8:11
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:

3 times:

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mar 13:31
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luk 21:33
Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

The food that endureth unto everlasting life, are his words that shall not pass away.

Heaven and earth shall pass away....

2Pe 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Isa 29:6
Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire.

but my words shall not pass away:

Isa 51:6
Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my righteousness shall not be abolished.

There is no new without the old. Like a hand in glove.

Jhn 6:27
Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

Like I said earlier. It is amazing when the word of God comes together

It proves itself..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thank you for taking the time to view the full video presentation by Dr. Brant Pitre on "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist". In this presentation, you will explore the Eucharist as the New Passover, the New Manna from Heaven, and the mysterious New 'Bread of the Presence.' If you are looking to deepen your faith in and understanding of the inexhaustible treasure that is the Eucharist, then this talk is for you. In this exciting talk, Dr. Pitre shines the light of the Old Testament and ancient Judaism on the words and deeds of Jesus to reveal the amazingly Jewish roots of the Eucharist. Using his in-depth knowledge of Jewish messianic expectations, Dr. Pitre shows how the hope for a New Exodus and the coming of the Messiah proves that Jesus really did intend to give us the Eucharist, and it is nothing less than the gift of Himself, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

I thought we were talking about John 6. And trying our best t keep catholic and Protestant doctrines out of the discussion?

 

[Ziggy]

Thank you for taking the time to view the full video presentation by Dr. Brant Pitre on "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist". In this presentation, you will explore the Eucharist as the New Passover, the New Manna from Heaven, and the mysterious New 'Bread of the Presence.' If you are looking to deepen your faith in and understanding of the inexhaustible treasure that is the Eucharist, then this talk is for you. In this exciting talk, Dr. Pitre shines the light of the Old Testament and ancient Judaism on the words and deeds of Jesus to reveal the amazingly Jewish roots of the Eucharist. Using his in-depth knowledge of Jewish messianic expectations, Dr. Pitre shows how the hope for a New Exodus and the coming of the Messiah proves that Jesus really did intend to give us the Eucharist, and it is nothing less than the gift of Himself, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

I'm listening
ok so this is where my beliefs are different from the Catholic church.
The OT is the physical archtype of the NT spiritual truth.
Even though they both walk hand in hand, in ALL points,
The difference being, is one is from below, earthy, and the other is from above, heavenly.
One is carnal and the other spiritual.

Jesus is the physical flesh body or the temple God used to place his spirit in.
And God himself walked among men, just as he did in the garden of Eden.

In this body we call man, there are 2 entities. There is man's spirit and God's spirit.
1Co 2:11
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now here is where I have a problem
The Catholic religion believes that the Spirit of God places himself (not in man) but in a wafer of bread.
And we are to eat this earthy bread and experience a spiritual realization of literally eating God.

I can't do it.
It's not for me.
I appreciate the time you took to find the video.
I truly do know the OT as I was very much a believer in keeping the Sabbath and studied that profusely before I came to the understand that Jesus IS our Sabbath, and that it is not one day, or any particular day of the earthly week we reside in.
But that the Sabbath was given to Israel as a physical remembrance until the true Spiritual Sabbath which is Christ himself would be known.

There is a division between the Old and the New. And everything in the New is on higher ground.
To bring Christ back into a physical manifestation of a wafer of bread, just don't measure up to what God's spirit says to me.
Now , maybe God speaks to other people and tells them they need to do it different, I don't know. I don't think so. I honestly don't believe so.
I do believe somewhere along the line, things got blurry and the message got crossed. To bring Jesus back down into something that is of the earth, ground up into meal, baked in an oven, and then eaten, digested,....

And I honestly don't mean to sound disrespectful or crude...
I believe there is something much more going on in that cup then what meets the eye.
I believe I posted above regarding the Prophet Ezekiel. And what was in this cup was the wrath of God.
In this cup is the very passover which killed the firstborn in Egypt.
In this cup was death.
And if you drank blood in the OT it was deadly. It was a sin.

I am looking for the fruit of the vine, which Jesus commented before handing the cup to the Apostles.
And what cup was it that Jesus wanted the Father to have removed from him?

Luk 22:20
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

In order for there to be a new testament, the old testament must be abolished.
And I posted this as well in Isaiah chapter 28 concerning the agreement Israel had made with death and hell.

This cup contained the fruit of the vine. But what vine? what fruit?

I post what I'm led to see and hear:

Deu 32:32
For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:

Psa 80:8
Thou hast brought a vine out of Egypt: thou hast cast out the heathen, and planted it.
Psa 80:9
Thou preparedst room before it, and didst cause it to take deep root, and it filled the land.
Psa 80:10
The hills were covered with the shadow of it, and the boughs thereof were like the goodly cedars.
Psa 80:11
She sent out her boughs unto the sea, and her branches unto the river.
Psa 80:12
Why hast thou then broken down her hedges, so that all they which pass by the way do pluck her?
Psa 80:13
The boar out of the wood doth waste it, and the wild beast of the field doth devour it.
Psa 80:14
Return, we beseech thee, O God of hosts: look down from heaven, and behold, and visit this vine;
Psa 80:15
And the vineyard which thy right hand hath planted, and the branch that thou madest strong for thyself.
Psa 80:16
It is burned with fire, it is cut down: they perish at the rebuke of thy countenance.
Psa 80:17
Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
Psa 80:18
So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
Psa 80:19
Turn us again, O LORD God of hosts, cause thy face to shine; and we shall be saved.

I'm just sayin.. there's a lot more in that cup than just wine.
I'm still diggin.

Thankyou, and I will keep listening, but it doesn't mean I will agree with you.
And I'm not going to bash you or any Catholics or any religion. Because I don't know what God has in store for each of us.
I believe God has a purpose for everything under the sun.

Thank You
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Im sorry @Eternally Grateful the posts keep overlapping.
Trying real hard to stay focused on John 6.

How about a short interlude to reboot

HUGS