The debate surrounding Calvinism is almost always on the wrong point, and the error that underlies it precedes Calvin. Most of the time people debate election, but that's nothing more than a consequence of total inability/depravity. Which comes from Augustine, not Calvin. All the Reformers did was take the Augustinian view of the fall and run that through a rigorous logical framework. A view which basically came about because Augustine didn't speak Greek and Jerome's Latin vulgate used the wrong preposition in Romans 5 combined with Augustine inventing a theological purpose for infant baptism.
John Calvin and Calvinism.
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robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Calvin preached another gospel of another christ, other than that of Jesus Christ.
The only whosoever saved by the Lord Himself, are them that believe and obey Him from the heart, and all hearts in this life are being daily searched by the Lord from the womb, to see whom He might save by His grace, not knowing beforehand who that would be, because there is no soul nor heart to search before being conceived on earth.
No soul is foreknown and elected before being conceived into the world, and no soul is saved and made alive before confessing Jesus with the mouth.
Calvin was an idiot.
No doubt, he suffered from the same angst about why certain souls believe to obey the Lord, and certain souls refuse the Lord. So with his stupid carnal mind, he tried to come up with an answer to the unanswerable: there is no reasonable answer nor doctrine to explain why some souls choose not to believe Jesus, other than they don't want to, which is utterly unreasonable, foolish, and self-destructive.
Souls are saved because they choose to believe and obey Jesus from the heart: we don't just fall into salvation, because we were predetermined to do so before ever becoming a soul in the world.
The only whosoever saved by the Lord Himself, are them that believe and obey Him from the heart, and all hearts in this life are being daily searched by the Lord from the womb, to see whom He might save by His grace, not knowing beforehand who that would be, because there is no soul nor heart to search before being conceived on earth.
No soul is foreknown and elected before being conceived into the world, and no soul is saved and made alive before confessing Jesus with the mouth.
Calvin was an idiot.
No doubt, he suffered from the same angst about why certain souls believe to obey the Lord, and certain souls refuse the Lord. So with his stupid carnal mind, he tried to come up with an answer to the unanswerable: there is no reasonable answer nor doctrine to explain why some souls choose not to believe Jesus, other than they don't want to, which is utterly unreasonable, foolish, and self-destructive.
Souls are saved because they choose to believe and obey Jesus from the heart: we don't just fall into salvation, because we were predetermined to do so before ever becoming a soul in the world.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
The pre-elected, pre-determined mystified carnality of Calvin leads directly to an unchooseable faith in God.
The devil in Calvinism begins at it's head lie of pre-election before conception: no Calvinist is allowed therefore at any time to even think they have a choice in the matter of their own salvation.
They refuse to believe that even believing is a choice: I didn't choose to believe. I just believe. And so I am saved without choice, and so I just make the best of it without choice.
They purposely separate choice and believing, so that they can then separate believing from obeying, as though faith alone were alive and worthy of salvation, which faith was not made by choice, but just 'happened', because they were predestined to believe.
They literally count being born again as 'fated' as being born of the flesh: no choice about it, and so no responsibility for it nor any accountability to it.
Like a sinful God: I Just AM. No choice about. I Am just predetermined by God to be a sinner saved by grace, and I Have nothing to say or do about it. I Just Am going to heaven, and there's nothing I can do to stop. I Just AM.
And so we see today one of the obscene results of Calvin's devilish doctrine after so many generations of degeneration: OSAS.
The devil in Calvinism begins at it's head lie of pre-election before conception: no Calvinist is allowed therefore at any time to even think they have a choice in the matter of their own salvation.
They refuse to believe that even believing is a choice: I didn't choose to believe. I just believe. And so I am saved without choice, and so I just make the best of it without choice.
They purposely separate choice and believing, so that they can then separate believing from obeying, as though faith alone were alive and worthy of salvation, which faith was not made by choice, but just 'happened', because they were predestined to believe.
They literally count being born again as 'fated' as being born of the flesh: no choice about it, and so no responsibility for it nor any accountability to it.
Like a sinful God: I Just AM. No choice about. I Am just predetermined by God to be a sinner saved by grace, and I Have nothing to say or do about it. I Just Am going to heaven, and there's nothing I can do to stop. I Just AM.
And so we see today one of the obscene results of Calvin's devilish doctrine after so many generations of degeneration: OSAS.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Most of the time people debate election, but that's nothing more than a consequence of total inability/depravity.
Pre-election before conception is nothing more than a consequence of the carnal minded trying to justify their double minded hypocrisy for the glory of God.
The only inability/depravity is with them that use pre-election to stay totally depraved 'by grace', by a total inability to think otherwise.
It is all about pre-election before conception, which takes any decision-making on the part of the soul out of their own hands, whether to believe or to obey God.
Everything the degenerated child of Calvin in OSAS speaks of is no choice, no responsibility, and accountability.
And their oh-so voluntary humility to more than gladly speak of their own total depravity and inability to stop going on sinning is puking pathetic.
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.
Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Jesus told the Apostles after his resurrection to preach the Gospel to the world. If Calvin's definition of Elect is true then the Apostles were not necessary. Why take the Gospel to the world?
Calvinists stand on a box to proclaim their views. The problem is that the box is fake. Their man-made definition of Elect and Predestination is false. Both apply to post Salvation not prior to Salvation.
IF predestination were true I've been predestined to reject it.
Calvinism is a view that ultimately servers one purpose. To assure those who say the sinner's prayer that going forward in their life they need not worry about their sins as God has called them obviously and they are written in the lamb's book of life regardless of what backslidden state their heart descends to. They have no responsibility for their salvation or their sinful behavior. God predetermined rapists, pedophiles, and all evil men. God filled out the invitation to Heaven before you were born and you are just a pawn in this life on earth. All who end up in hell are there because God determined that before they were born.
Our sovereign God knew before you were born what choices you would make in this life but he didn't build robots for the purpose of fellowship and true love with himself. God is big enough to execute his plan to allow his created man to have free will.
TULIP is a house of cards that with study crumbles.
Jesus told the Apostles after his resurrection to preach the Gospel to the world. If Calvin's definition of Elect is true then the Apostles were not necessary. Why take the Gospel to the world?
Calvinists stand on a box to proclaim their views. The problem is that the box is fake. Their man-made definition of Elect and Predestination is false. Both apply to post Salvation not prior to Salvation.
IF predestination were true I've been predestined to reject it.
Calvinism is a view that ultimately servers one purpose. To assure those who say the sinner's prayer that going forward in their life they need not worry about their sins as God has called them obviously and they are written in the lamb's book of life regardless of what backslidden state their heart descends to. They have no responsibility for their salvation or their sinful behavior. God predetermined rapists, pedophiles, and all evil men. God filled out the invitation to Heaven before you were born and you are just a pawn in this life on earth. All who end up in hell are there because God determined that before they were born.
Our sovereign God knew before you were born what choices you would make in this life but he didn't build robots for the purpose of fellowship and true love with himself. God is big enough to execute his plan to allow his created man to have free will.
TULIP is a house of cards that with study crumbles.
True. It is also a cancer, since it eats away at Gospel truth. The responses I have had to my posts show that Calvinists are unable to separate truth from fiction because their theology has destroyed their spiritual discernment.
Wow. So much hatred for the truth ie. calvinism. Jesus said we would be hated for the truth.
I hate to tell you all this, but if you do make it to Heaven, john calvin will be there. And yes, calvinism is the Biblical doctrine, straight from the apostles words.
I hate to tell you all this, but if you do make it to Heaven, john calvin will be there. And yes, calvinism is the Biblical doctrine, straight from the apostles words.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
They have no responsibility for their salvation or their sinful behavior.
Exactly. Good post.
It's the same carnal thinking and wish list as those who say they don't believe the Bible, because ot the miracles, that they have not seen.
It has nothing to do with that, and everything to do with the law of God to obey.
OSAS literally rejects not going on in sin, because they don't see it in their own lives, nor in the lives of them they agree with.
They live by sight, not by faith. They live only by what they see in themselves and around them.
They reject the faith of Jesus, because they refuse to even try living by faith: to believe we can cease from going in sins.
tell us robert derrick. When was the last time you sinned? Any answer longer than 24 hrs is a lie.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Good ol' depraved sinners. Always playing the hate-card.
Just what do depraved ongoing committed sinners and trespassers have to do with Jesus Christ?
They were enemies of God in the sins and trespasses, and now they are the friends of God going on still in their sins and trespasses?
Calvin's depraved children are enemies of God in their bodies, but loving celebratory friends of God in their hearts.
From what I know of Calvin's living, he would be denouncing his own degenerate children, and going back to change his own doctrine of predetermined double mindedness and hypocrisy in the name of Christ.
newsflash!!! You too are a totally depraved sinner. You sin daily. You deny this because you’re deceived.
I hope John Calvin is there and you too. We disagree on the meaning of certain scripture. There is a difference between a man committing a sin and a person who chooses to live a sinful life, to reject God. Jesus told the Apostles that he would send a helper, the Holy Spirit. What do you expect the role of the Holy Spirit is? To be baptized in the Holy Spirit? Would a person elected before they were born already have the Holy Spirit? How could you grieve the Holy Spirit? Why would we need a savior if our fate was decided before the creation of the earth? The Calvinist view is flawed, the Word of God is not.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
unable to separate truth from fiction, because they are unwilling to separate themselves from sins.
Once the heart refuses to be purified from sins and trespasses, while the mind continues to think it is Christian not to do so, then there remains no more intelligence against sins: they are turned over to a reprobate mind that cannot acknowledge the truth.
What is the truth of Calvinist pre-election? That God will not bruise the head of some of them that goeth on still in their trespasses.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
I don't answer the insincere and dishonest questions of a bruised heads.
newsflash!!! You too are a totally depraved sinner. You sin daily. You deny this because you’re deceived.
And I certainly don't agree to join them in their depravity.
But God shall wound the head of his enemies, and the hairy scalp of such an one as goeth on still in his trespasses.
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calvinism is straight from the apostles words. Calvin didnt create any new doctrine, he simply took the 27 books of the NT and neatly put them in a 5 point, or 5 sentence design. Theres nothing new to calvinism.
What i find from those who deny calvinism is, they deny that God knows everything. He knows how judgement day will go, He knows every sin you’ll ever commit. We call it Lordship salvation.
Those who deny calvinism also deny that they remain sinners even after conversion, like robert derrick does.
more proof that robert derrick thinks he doesnt sin anymore. 1 john warns about people like him.
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
There is a difference between a man committing a sin and a person who chooses to live a sinful life, to reject God.
The difference is not between committing a sin and being committed to sin: It takes a one time commitment to commit a one time sin, and that commitment to sin once is just as much of the devil and enmity with God, as it is to do so twice, or thrice.
Committing a sin is rejecting God, by rejecting His righteousness not to commit the sin.
And so, let's not excuse ourselves as Christians, as though committing a sin from time to time is not the same as being committed to sin from time to time.
I lived the miserable double minded life of sinning from time to time, but I never excused it, nor did I accept it as the natural and necessary for Christians in this life, and I certainly never believed the OSAS lie and learn to celebrate by grace.
The exhortation, example, and commandment of Scripture is righteous, holy, and blameless living as saints in Christ Jesus. Period.
And so, the main difference between us, who know the wretchedness of double mindedness, and them that learn to celebrate in it, is one of attitude:
The saint's attitude and mind of Christ is to go and sin no more, but if we do, then all is not lost by grace of God to confess and repent and go on to sin no more.
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
The hypocrite's attitude is the exact opposite: when they go to sin some more, and they know they will, it is by grace for the glory of God.
John Calvin was not a purposed double minded sinner, excusing sins as unjudgeable in the soul. He would wrap himself in sackcloth and ashes to see the completely degenerated result of his false doctrine: OSAS.
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