JUSTIFICATION: Before God or Before Man? Examining James chapter 2

[Titus]

Here is a quote from Facebook that I recently came across:

View attachment 57855

Dan, this is not all you said.

so baptism was not necessary for salvation for the thief on the cross

This is where you have misunderstood.
We dont teach this.

Faith only folks say "what about the thief on the cross he wasn't baptized"

My position is you cannot make that claim because the Bible doesn't say if he was or was not baptized.

During the lifetime of the thief he would have been required to be baptized by John.

So, yes he was required to be baptized.

Was he? Only God knows and the thief himself.

Heres why the thief is not our example for salvation today.

He died under the old covenant.
We are not commanded to be baptized in John's baptism.

We are in the new covenant AFTER the Death, burial, ressurection of Christ.
So we are commanded to be baptized in Jesus' baptism.

The thief did not get saved by the gospel of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

He never believed in Jesus' ressurection.
He was dead before Jesus rose from the dead.

So he was not saved by Jesus' new testament gospel.

We must believe in the death, burial and ressurection then be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to be saved.

The thief was never commanded to do what we are told to do.
He is not our example for salvation today.

If he wasn't baptized he sinned.
Jesus forgave his sins on the cross.
But that is speculation and so it's wrong to even take a position one way or the other.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Matthew 3:11 - As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. Was that natural H20 that John baptized people in? Do you understand the difference between being baptized with water and being baptized with the Holy Spirit?

Your repetitious straw man arguments, insults and nonsense are getting old.

Show me just one verse in Scripture that specifically says, "whoever is not baptized will be condemned." I'll be waiting. In the meantime read John 3:18 - John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You seem to have more faith in water baptism to save you than you do in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ! Your church should be labeled a "water baptism cult." When I had temporarily attended the CoC several years, it seemed like water baptism was just about the only thing they talked about! Reminds me of the Jews obsession with circumcision.

This question was in regard to John's authority to baptize. John was widely revered by the people and the Chief priests and elders of the people could not deny John's legitimacy without an unpopular response from the people. They quickly came to realize that Jesus has put them in a no-win situation. If they said John's authority and message was from heaven, Jesus can accuse them of ignoring the messenger of God. The alternative, to claim John was a fraudulent teacher, of men, would be very unpopular and go against their real motive of maintaining power. (Matthew 21:26) What seemed like an easy way to trap Jesus ended up becoming a snare for these men. Praise Jesus!

BTW That question had nothing to do with salvation by water baptism.

some people just can not get out of God's way and just allow God to save them..

Its sad.

 

[Titus]

some people just can not get out of God's way and just allow God to save them..

Its sad.

Hi, haven't seen you for good while!

 

[Titus]

I don't appreciate your slander. You don't seem to understand Jesus' question in Matthew 21:25. The question was in regard to John's authority to baptize The legitimacy of John's ministry as being ordained by God in heaven and not about which baptism is being performed (Spirit baptism) or water baptism.

You are really good at explaining away what the Scriptures plainly say,

Matthew 21:25,
- the baptism of John where was it from? From heaven or from men

You deny the context and make up a story when Jesus asks them about John's baptism.
To deny Jesus is asking about baptism is to deny what it says word for word.

You'll say just about anything to get water baptism out of Gods will and put it on man as nothing but a physical act.

Its spiritual because God decreed it.
Its spiritual because It is for the forgiveness of sins

Amazing you can't see what these verses clearly say.

 

[Verily]

Dan, this is not all you said.


This is where you have misunderstood.
We dont teach this.

Faith only folks say "what about the thief on the cross he wasn't baptized"

My position is you cannot make that claim because the Bible doesn't say if he was or was not baptized.

During the lifetime of the thief he would have been required to be baptized by John.

So, yes he was required to be baptized.

Was he? Only God knows and the thief himself.

Heres why the thief is not our example for salvation today.

He died under the old covenant.
We are not commanded to be baptized in John's baptism.

We are in the new covenant AFTER the Death, burial, ressurection of Christ.
So we are commanded to be baptized in Jesus' baptism.

The thief did not get saved by the gospel of Christ, 1Corinthians 15:1-4.

He never believed in Jesus' ressurection.
He was dead before Jesus rose from the dead.

So he was not saved by Jesus' new testament gospel.

We must believe in the death, burial and ressurection then be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ to be saved.

The thief was never commanded to do what we are told to do.
He is not our example for salvation today.

If he wasn't baptized he sinned.
Jesus forgave his sins on the cross.
But that is speculation and so it's wrong to even take a position one way or the other.

The one thief confessed that his deeds werent right, he confessed God, he confessed Jesus as Lord and acknowledged on the cross that he knew that Christ would come into his kingdom demonstrates he believed his kingdom was after his death.


Luke 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.

Luke 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?

Luke 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

There can be something that hinders baptism, in certain circumstances, even though he says here

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Its he that believeth not is who shall be damned (more specifically)

Like with the eunuch

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

So Philip informed him of water baptism, but also said

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Belief had to come before he was baptized, but something hindered that, its good to know Jesus said,

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

But he did say to the thief

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

 

[mailmandan]

some people just can not get out of God's way and just allow God to save them..

Its sad.

It's very sad and it's a shame that human pride will not allow these folks to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

 

[mailmandan]

You are really good at explaining away what the Scriptures plainly say,

Matthew 21:25,
- the baptism of John where was it from? From heaven or from men

You deny the context and make up a story when Jesus asks them about John's baptism.
To deny Jesus is asking about baptism is to deny what it says word for word.

You'll say just about anything to get water baptism out of Gods will and put it on man as nothing but a physical act.

Its spiritual because God decreed it.
Its spiritual because It is for the forgiveness of sins

Amazing you can't see what these verses clearly say.

 

[Titus]

It's very sad and it's a shame that human pride will not allow these folks to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

I will obey your gospel if you can be sincere and honest by answering my question straight forward.

If you are sealed with the Holy Spirit the moment you believe alone. Then can someone not obey any other commandment in the new testament and go to heaven?
1John 3:23-24, only believe in Jesus.

Dont tell me he will because his hearts been changed. Those works are not required to be saved.

I'm not asking about works he will do.
I'm asking can he get to heaven if he obeys only 1 commandment, belief, 1John 3:23-24

What say ye

 

[Titus]

Agreed, you came on here by your own will. I did not request for you to come on here.
It's you who chose to debate me. You came to my OP.

I'm simply defending my teaching.
You're free to leave any time you like.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's very sad and it's a shame that human pride will not allow these folks to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

if they had even an inkling of the danger they were in (we all are in based on our sin). they would become like the tax collector. Sadly to many would rather be like the pharisee

 

[mailmandan]

if they had even an inkling of the danger they were in (we all are in based on our sin). they would become like the tax collector. Sadly to many would rather be like the pharisee

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

[Behold]

Main reason is the false doctrine of faith absent of obedient works is what Justifies us before God aka faith alone salvation.

There is no work you can offer God, no moral performace or behavior, that you can offer God that He will accept.
As you are offering it as a sinner or as a saved one.

Consider that the works that you can do, that you would define as obedience......like trying to keep commandments, or giving to the poor, or going to church, or bible reading, or being good to people......or trying to be like Jesus......
= You can do all this as an UNBELIEVER.
Now, does it save you? Does God accept it?
A.) NO
So, its a foolish person who believes that now that God has saved them... that their works now become somehow clean, and holy, and good., when in fact, "all our works are as a filthy rag" before God, before we are saved, and afterwards.

THE NT does not teach that your works are accepted by God.....Its says that your Faith is accepted and "without faith its impossible to please God".
So, carnal believers who are SELF RIGHTEOUS.... try to present their works and moral behavior to God as if He is going to accept THEM, based on their behavior.
And they seem to have forgotten that He only accepted them Based in THE CROSS OF CHRIST..........His Sacrifice, and for no other reason, and this never changes.

 

[Titus]

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Agreed, you came on here by your own will. I did not request for you to come on here.
It's you who chose to debate me. You came to my OP.

I'm simply defending my teaching.
You're free to leave any time.

Dan, I'm still waiting for you to quote James with no commentary of your own.
Still waiting for you to quote James saying faith alone justifies.
You claim James teaches this.
You have yet to prove it.

Also Luke 18:9 is teaching on those who rejected Jesus' counsel.
These are those that rejected to be baptized by John.
And would reject Jesus' teaching.

You reject Jesus' gospel, Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16 ; John 3:5 ; John 3:36. Acts 9:6 ; Acts 22:16 ; Acts 10:47-48.

Anyone trying to be saved by going against Gods will is trusting in their own belief not in Jesus.
Matthew 7:21,
- not everyone that saith unto Me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the  will of My Father in heaven

- and I will profess unto them I never knew you depart from Me ye that work lawlessness

Dan, you are going against the gospel by believing you do not have to obey Jesus' commandment to be baptized.
That makes you a law breaker of Gods new testament commandments.

Put your trust in Jesus not in your belief alone.
Prove you trust Jesus by obeying Him.
You are a lawbreaker. You have no trust in how Jesus has chosen to save you.
1John 3:4,
- whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law for sin is lawlessness

By you teaching others they do not have to obey Gods gospel by being baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.
You are encouraging others to violate Gods commandments.
You will, be judged by your own rebellion against Jesus and His gospel as well as teaching others to disobey God.

Now show everyone James teaching faith alone justifies.
Dont give me your commentary.
Quote James by himself!!!

Like this,
James 2:20;24
- but wilt thou know O, foolish man that faith without works is dead
- ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone

 

[mailmandan]

Dan, I'm still waiting for you to quote James with no commentary of your own.
Still waiting for you to quote James saying faith alone justifies.
You claim James teaches this.
You have yet to prove it.

Also Luke 18:9 is teaching on those who rejected Jesus' counsel.
These are those that rejected to be baptized by John.
And would reject Jesus' teaching.

You reject Jesus' gospel, Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-16 ; John 3:5 ; John 3:36. Acts 9:6 ; Acts 22:16 ; Acts 10:47-48.

Anyone trying to be saved by going against Gods will is trusting in their own belief not in Jesus.
Matthew 7:21,
- not everyone that saith unto Me Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven but he that doeth the  will of My Father in heaven

- and I will profess unto them I never knew you depart from Me ye that work lawlessness

Dan, you are going against the gospel by believing you do not have to obey Jesus' commandment to be baptized.
That makes you a law breaker of Gods new testament commandments.

Put your trust in Jesus not in your belief alone.
Prove you trust Jesus by obeying Him.
You are a lawbreaker. You have no trust in how Jesus has chosen to save you.
1John 3:4,
- whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law for sin is lawlessness

By you teaching others they do not have to obey Gods gospel by being baptized into Christ, Galatians 3:26-27.
You are encouraging others to violate Gods commandments.
You will, be judged by your own rebellion against Jesus and His gospel as well as teaching others to disobey God.

Now show everyone James teaching faith alone justifies.
Dont give me your commentary.
Quote James by himself!!!

Like this,
James 2:20;24
- but wilt thou know O, foolish man that faith without works is dead
- ye see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith alone

I reject the false gospel according to Campbellism (that culminates in salvation by works/works righteousness) and not the gospel according to Jesus. (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). Your false gospel is the result of bad semantics and flawed hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; 2 Timothy 1:9)

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation  to everyone that believes.. To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.

Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel. I will continue to pray for you.

 

[mailmandan]

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now we don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, belief/faith - "stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation." Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones, to enclosing oneself in armor, etc. When a soldier puts on armor he is imitating his superiors and trainers, is revealing himself to be a soldier. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier.

It's the same with putting on a judge's robe. Simply putting on a robe in of itself, does not make anyone become a judge, but one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on judicial robes and thus declare their qualifications. This is signified in water baptism, but the reality is found in Spirit baptism.

So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14.

*If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

 

[Titus]

John 3:18 - who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already

You must first believe John 3:18.
That belief must obey to be saving faith, John 3:36.
If one is baptized but does not believe that Jesus is God and that He rose from the dead.
Their baptism is not found in the gospel of Jesus Christ therefore vain/worthlesss.

Use common sense.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-24)

You just admitted genuine faith works obedience.
Yet you claim you were saved with belief that had no obedient works!!!
By your own definition of genuine faith. You just admitted that you were saved be a counterfeit faith.

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. (Romans 3:24-28; 2 Timothy 1:9

There is no merits in our works. Neither of us believe in merit salvation.
The works we do are not our works.
They are the works of God, John 6:28-29.

It is through faith "in Jesus Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony

No one in the new testament taught salvation by just believing but not obeying Jesus' gospel.
You are in a man made religion.
A false gospel that gives false hope.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

This is cherry picking.
Accept all of Jesus' gospel. Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:18-20.

To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation

You reject what God tells us what we must do, Acts 9:6.
There is no trust in Jesus in your gospel.
You are trusting in your belief alone to save you.

Let me know when you are ready to repent and believe the gospel. I will continue to pray for you.

2 Thessalonians 1:8.

Wheres your quotation of James teaching faith alone justifies, saves ?
Nowhere.

 

[Titus]

The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).

Now we don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, belief/faith - "stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation." Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.

*Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (Period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

The allusion is to putting off old clothes and putting on new ones, to enclosing oneself in armor, etc. When a soldier puts on armor he is imitating his superiors and trainers, is revealing himself to be a soldier. One does not put on a uniform in order to become a soldier. Simply putting on a soldier's uniform does not make one become a soldier. Once one is made a soldier one is then able to put on and wear the uniform that distinguishes or marks them as a soldier.

It's the same with putting on a judge's robe. Simply putting on a robe in of itself, does not make anyone become a judge, but one who has been made a judge is qualified to put on judicial robes and thus declare their qualifications. This is signified in water baptism, but the reality is found in Spirit baptism.

So too with being water baptized, the Christian puts on robes for which they has previously been qualified to wear. The putting on of Christ is not what makes one become a Christian, but one which becomes a token of it, as in Romans 13:14.

*If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

This OP is about James 2.

You claim James teaches faith alone salvation in James 2.
Quote James teaching your gospel?
Your silence speaks louder than words.

 

[mailmandan]

You must first believe John 3:18.
That belief must obey to be saving faith, John 3:36.
If one is baptized but does not believe that Jesus is God and that He rose from the dead.
Their baptism is not found in the gospel of Jesus Christ therefore vain/worthlesss.

Use common sense.

You just admitted genuine faith works obedience.
Yet you claim you were saved with belief that had no obedient works!!!
By your own definition of genuine faith. You just admitted that you were saved be a counterfeit faith.

There is no merits in our works. Neither of us believe in merit salvation.
The works we do are not our works.
They are the works of God, John 6:28-29.

No one in the new testament taught salvation by just believing but not obeying Jesus' gospel.
You are in a man made religion.
A false gospel that gives false hope.

This is cherry picking.
Accept all of Jesus' gospel. Mark 16:15-16 ; Matthew 28:18-20.

You reject what God tells us what we must do, Acts 9:6.
Their is no trust in Jesus in your gospel.
You are trusting in your belief alone to save you.

2 Thessalonians 1:8.

Wheres your quotation of James teaching faith alone justifies, saves ?
Nowhere.

I have already refuted your broken record arguments that culminate in salvation by works/works righteousness numerous times but sadly, you just don't have ears to hear.

 

[Titus]

Since you failed to quote James teaching your gospel I'll discuss water baptism.

This is signified in water baptism, but the reality is found in Spirit baptism

You have two baptisms in your gospel.
Jesus' gospel only has one, Ephesians 4:5,
- One Lord, One faith,  One baptism

If one sets out to put on the clothes of a Christian, in water baptism, without first becoming a Christian (child of God through faith), then one becomes an imposter, and is declaring, in baptism, to be what they are not.

I hate to call you a hypocrite Dan but you are.
You are teaching on baptism yet reject that this command must be obeyed, Acts 9:6 ; Acts 10:47-48 ; Acts 22:16.

Its hypocrisy for you to lecture me on Gods commandment to be baptized when you refuse this commandment must be obeyed.

Dan, your teaching on baptism is error.
I can easily prove this to be truth, John 17:17.

All spiritual blessings are IN Christ.
Therefore if anyone is outside of Christ they have NONE, no spiritual blessings from God.
Ephesians 1:3,
- blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings IN Christ

Dan I will become a faith onlyist.
If, you can give one new testament passage that teaches belief alone gets us INTO Christ.
This is where all, all, all, spiritual blessings are given by God.
Which means salvation is IN Christ.

Give one passage that teaches the moment we believe we are moved outside of Chirst into Christ?

You do this and I'll join your church, I promise.
I also promise to give you 1,000 dollars if you show me belief alone adds one into Christ.

 

[Titus]

I have already refuted your broken record arguments that culminate in salvation by works/works righteousness numerous times but sadly, you just don't have ears to hear.

YOU JUST CAME BACK ON HERE TODAY TO START THIS AGAIN WITH ME, LOL.

Your claims are empty vain words.
Quote James teaching faith alone justifies.