Justification, instant sanctification and progressive sanctification and sainthood..

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David H.

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When a Person first has saving faith, they receive justification, which is being declared "not guilty" by the judge, and instant sanctification, a clean slate for all past present and future sins. We are declared righteous and made righteous by the blood of the Lamb which cleanses us, We receive the Holy Ghost as an "earnest" Literally a down payment, and He then begins the work of cleaning us from the inside out so that we become Holy and righteous, not of ourselves but by the work of the Holy Spirit in us, this is Progressive sanctification, and that down payment starts to earn interest and within us and the more we yield to the work of the Holy Spirit, the more he is able to finish the work in us.

Unfortunately, Most Christians in their faith stop at instant sanctification and and never surrender to the work of the Holy Ghost in their lives, they believe they are justified, and instantly sanctified, and because all their sins past present and future are forgiven they are assured of their future salvation, and then proceed to live as they will never growing in the faith. This is nothing more than self deception, the seed having planted never grows and when the thorns and the storms of life blow they never have been rooted in the faith and they blow away.

Assurance of salvation comes not from acknowledging of the facts of salvation but by Knowing the source of salvation, and in relation to that Person, yielding to and surrendering to the work of that person our own will to His will. In the Words of Christ Jesus our example: "Not my will but thine be done".

This surrender to the Will of God is not self righteousness, but the act of admitting that no righteousness can come from myself, but comes from the Work of the Holy Spirit in me, the more we yield ourselves to Him the more Christlike we become. The More we try to be righteous of our own strength and will, the more we will fail, but the more we surrender the more He will succeed in us and through us. This is the Key to Holiness, a hard lesson to learn but one that we must learn if we are to become a new creation in Christ Jesus. Being Born again is not a mental acknowledgment of facts, but a regeneration of the heart that comes by putting to death the Old man in us and putting on the new man, this is what Progressive sanctification leads to. Some say this is a lifelong process, and for most it is, but there are a few who reach this point of total regeneration, and these are the saints of God. Those brief moments they are among us before they are called home are the most precious times in their life, and when they have the most profound effect on the church. But invariably, they will be persecuted and not last long in this role before being called to make this saintly sacrifice and give their testimony (Martyria), But the effect of this testimony will shake the World to its core, and serve as an example to the faithful of the path we all must tread.

There are a Lot of Christians who throw the word saints around like it is a just another word for Christian. Are all Christians saints? No. Are Christians called to become saints? Yes, Many are called, few are chosen. You, me nor any other Christian does not determine if we are to be saints, as this is the divine choice of God. He will choose his Martyrs, as we are not a religion that seeks death, nor a suicide cult. The Good news is the path of progressive sanctification and holiness is a path many saints have travelled before, and we have but to choose to follow that path and we will walk from victory to victory in our lives as we overcome the bondage of the flesh, and learn to live by the leading of the Spirit. When we as a church wholeheartedly begin this journey of the Spirit, the world will hate us, but we will know we are being the salt of the earth then. May we never lose our saltiness, as the salt is both a savor and a preservative that heals, but when it loses that saltiness it is of no value.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5)
 
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marks

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When we trust in Jesus with a true and living faith, God gives us rebirth, and we are never the same again. This is true of ALL Real Christians.

And All True Christians are saints.

We can discuss this if you wish.

Much love!
 

David H.

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And All True Christians are saints.

We can discuss this if you wish.

Saints as defined in scripture are those who are sanctified and set apart from the whole for service to the LORD. the Levites were saints, the rest of the tribes of Israel were either faithful or unfaithful. In the NT this distinction is made by Paul Who addresses his letters to the Saints AND the Faithful in Christ Jesus. When You are first saved, you have instant sanctification, but you are not consecrated, progressive sanctification is the process of consecration, and being made holy unto the Lord, by which we arrive at sainthood. The Apostle Peter writes of this process in 2 Peter 1 with the virtues we add to our faith as we grow the final one being Agape Love, which is the final characteristic of the saint, who lays down his life for service to the LORD, Just Like Christ himself did, thus becoming obedient to the "new Law" given by Christ Jesus to love one another as He loved us and laid down his life for us. To be called a saint is something we must strive for, not something we are automatically granted, like a club membership. This being the very BIG error of the reformation to do away with this distinction.

It is said, that Luther rediscovered salvation by faith alone through grace alone, Wesley rediscovered progressive sanctification, and now we the final church age will rediscover what it means to become a saint. To reach the fulness of Christ.
 

marks

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Saints as defined in scripture

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who was Romans addressed to?

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

For whom does the Holy Spirit pray?

Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

For whom should we give?

1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

To whom was 1 Corinthians addressed to? This letter filled with corrections of the people?

This idea that "saints" are a sub-catagory of Christians does not agree with the Scriptures.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Paul Who addresses his letters to the Saints AND the Faithful in Christ Jesus.

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:1-2 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

2Co 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:

Php 1:1-2 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:1-2 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother, To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

upload_2020-12-9_10-11-23.png
"To the holy and believing brothers in Colosse"

Do you then count Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, and Philippians to be addressed to some NT Christians but not others?

Do you count yourself as a saint?

Much love!
 
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David H.

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This idea that "saints" are a sub-catagory of Christians does not agree with the Scriptures.

Do you then count Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, and Philippians to be addressed to some NT Christians but not others?

Marks,
This error has been perpetuated by protestantism for 500+ years now, so it will take some time to address, and if you are willing to learn i will respond further. I Have a little time now but will try to get back to this tonight or tomorrow. Needless to say there is a lot of assumptions in your views that come from this 500 years of indoctrinization which needs to be discussed first and foremost. What i am saying does not negate what the reformation has done but affirms it, and is the final "reformation" if you will, but will take some time to develop in this post. This all ties into revelation and the fulfilment of prophecy.
 

marks

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Marks,
This error has been perpetuated by protestantism for 500+ years now, so it will take some time to address, and if you are willing to learn i will respond further. I Have a little time now but will try to get back to this tonight or tomorrow. Needless to say there is a lot of assumptions in your views that come from this 500 years of indoctrinization
Let's not divert onto something irrelevant.

This isn't about 500 years of anything, only, the way you use the word isn't consistent with the Bible.

So how about we start with a word study?

Much love!
 

marks

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It is said, that Luther rediscovered salvation by faith alone through grace alone, Wesley rediscovered progressive sanctification, and now we the final church age will rediscover what it means to become a saint. To reach the fulness of Christ.
Many things are said. I truly hope you do discover what it is to be a saint. It could have a tremendous impact on your life today.

Much love!
 

marks

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@David H.

Just that one question, is really what I'm interested in concerning this topic.

Are you a saint?


Much love!
 

David H.

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Are you a saint?

The calling of a saint is by divine election, Every believer is called to be a saint few are chosen. I Do not Know if I will "make the calling sure" or if I will not be called upon to make that sacrifice. The call of saint leads to a definite destination, to give their testimony (Martyria in the Greek) it is the root word of Martyr. As I am still alive I am not a saint, But I am on the road as all believers are of being consecrated for that calling.

I Know in the end times, the numbers of Saints reaching this calling will be Increased, as war will be made on the saints by the antichrist, and the fifth seal is an acceleration of this calling. that being said, more and more saints will be "born" in that time period than ever before. If that is my calling, then I will rejoice, You yourself may be called to this as well, But we do not know ultimately who the LORD will choose.

I Believe this should answer your "one Question". If you want to begin with a word study, that is fine by me, I use the Hebrew as my primary basis.

I will ask you though, will you consider what I say with an open mind? because if not this will be a waste of my time. Is your hunger for the truth or are you set in your ways?
 

marks

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I will ask you though, will you consider what I say with an open mind?
What makes you think I don't? If your assertions are Scripturally sound I receive them. If they are not I do not. But above all else I go to the Bible for truth, and I've come to see that the Bible answers every question concerning our lives and doctrine.

I use the Hebrew as my primary basis.
In that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, I refer to that language, and base my New Testament studies in that.

Do you mean that you look to Hebrew words to clarify the Greek words? I know some people who believe that the NT was originally written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek. They tell me that they know what the original Hebrew words were, even though we don't have these manuscripts.

Is this what you mean?

The call of saint leads to a definite destination, to give their testimony

I see much more to being a saint as I look at the New Testament. Even the Old!

But something occurs to me about what you've said. You said that no one is a saint who is alive. This is something that is inconsistent with Scripture.


Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Rom 16:15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

There are a great many more, but perhaps these will suffice? Each of these passages shows the saints to be an identifiable group of people living here on this earth.

Are you open to receive this?

When you ask, Is my hunger for the truth . . . My hunger is for Jesus. And I know an excellent way to know Him better. That is to know the Bible, for what God says in it, not what man wants to make it say, what He says. When you ask, is my hunger for the truth, do you mean, will I accept whatever you tell me?

Or are we both willing to allow the Scripture to be the final authority?

Much love!
 
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Truman

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When a Person first has saving faith, they receive justification, which is being declared "not guilty" by the judge, and instant sanctification, a clean slate for all past present and future sins. We are declared righteous and made righteous by the blood of the Lamb which cleanses us, We receive the Holy Ghost as an "earnest" Literally a down payment, and He then begins the work of cleaning us from the inside out so that we become Holy and righteous, not of ourselves but by the work of the Holy Spirit in us, this is Progressive sanctification, and that down payment starts to earn interest and within us and the more we yield to the work of the Holy Spirit, the more he is able to finish the work in us.

Unfortunately, Most Christians in their faith stop at instant sanctification and and never surrender to the work of the Holy Ghost in their lives, they believe they are justified, and instantly sanctified, and because all their sins past present and future are forgiven they are assured of their future salvation, and then proceed to live as they will never growing in the faith. This is nothing more than self deception, the seed having planted never grows and when the thorns and the storms of life blow they never have been rooted in the faith and they blow away.

Assurance of salvation comes not from acknowledging of the facts of salvation but by Knowing the source of salvation, and in relation to that Person, yielding to and surrendering to the work of that person our own will to His will. In the Words of Christ Jesus our example: "Not my will but thine be done".

This surrender to the Will of God is not self righteousness, but the act of admitting that no righteousness can come from myself, but comes from the Work of the Holy Spirit in me, the more we yield ourselves to Him the more Christlike we become. The More we try to be righteous of our own strength and will, the more we will fail, but the more we surrender the more He will succeed in us and through us. This is the Key to Holiness, a hard lesson to learn but one that we must learn if we are to become a new creation in Christ Jesus. Being Born again is not a mental acknowledgment of facts, but a regeneration of the heart that comes by putting to death the Old man in us and putting on the new man, this is what Progressive sanctification leads to. Some say this is a lifelong process, and for most it is, but there are a few who reach this point of total regeneration, and these are the saints of God. Those brief moments they are among us before they are called home are the most precious times in their life, and when they have the most profound effect on the church. But invariably, they will be persecuted and not last long in this role before being called to make this saintly sacrifice and give their testimony (Martyria), But the effect of this testimony will shake the World to its core, and serve as an example to the faithful of the path we all must tread.

There are a Lot of Christians who throw the word saints around like it is a just another word for Christian. Are all Christians saints? No. Are Christians called to become saints? Yes, Many are called, few are chosen. You, me nor any other Christian does not determine if we are to be saints, as this is the divine choice of God. He will choose his Martyrs, as we are not a religion that seeks death, nor a suicide cult. The Good news is the path of progressive sanctification and holiness is a path many saints have travelled before, and we have but to choose to follow that path and we will walk from victory to victory in our lives as we overcome the bondage of the flesh, and learn to live by the leading of the Spirit. When we as a church wholeheartedly begin this journey of the Spirit, the world will hate us, but we will know we are being the salt of the earth then. May we never lose our saltiness, as the salt is both a savor and a preservative that heals, but when it loses that saltiness it is of no value.

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5)
Are you of the body or are you of another branch? Or do you know...yet? :)
 

David H.

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In that the New Testament was written in Koine Greek, I refer to that language, and base my New Testament studies in that.

Do you mean that you look to Hebrew words to clarify the Greek words? I know some people who believe that the NT was originally written in Hebrew, then translated into Greek. They tell me that they know what the original Hebrew words were, even though we don't have these manuscripts.

Is this what you mean?

The New testament is built upon the Old testament, Concepts such as the Blood for cleansing are foreshadowed in the Old Testament. The definitions of a what a saint is in the Old testament show that saints are a unique group from amongst the faithful. For example Hosea 11:12 states: "Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints." Here we see saints as a disitinct group from the faithful of Judah who rule with God. So to extend this into the new testament, and Paul's understanding as Jew himself, when he addresses a church in his letters he makes this same distinction between the faithful in Christ Jesus and the saints.

To answer some of your earlier questions for example...
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

To whom was 1 Corinthians addressed to? This letter filled with corrections of the people?

I see multiple groups being addressed that are all part of the Body of Christ. So there is (1) the church of God at Corinth, which is the whole of the church, (2) those who are being sanctified in Christ Jesus, which are those who are in the process of progressive sanctification, (3) those called to be saints, those who have made their calling and election sure. Every believer is on the same journey to sainthood, we are all a work in progress. But ultimately it is God who chooses who will become a saint.

All of this comes from the Hebrew definition of a saint as being one chosen out of the whole, called to be separated and consecrated fully for service and as a testimony For God.

Sainthood is a shared journey we are all on as believers but not all of us "finish the race".

But something occurs to me about what you've said. You said that no one is a saint who is alive. This is something that is inconsistent with Scripture.

A saint, does not know he is a saint until he makes his election and calling sure (read 2 Peter 1) Notice verse one says "obtained", look up the definition of that word and you will see this is referring to a different calling than the calling of faith which is not obtained by "lot", but by belief. Peter then goes on to show the Path to sainthood which begins with faith, add to that virtue, and to virtue knowledge etc, all the way to Brotherly Love, and finally to Agape. It is this Agape love that "marks" a saint who has made their election and calling sure, now all that is left, is for the LORD to choose them to finish the race. So when Paul speaks of the churches of the saints, and addresses living saints it is those who have reached the point of Agape love in their consecration. It is this Agape love empowered by the Holy Ghost that enables the saint to give their testimony.

If you are honest in your own walk you will find yourself somewhere on that Journey to sainthood that Peter describes there, struggling with one of those qualities he speaks of. I dare say most of the faithful are stuck on temperance, if you are struggling with sexual sins and or addictions, some lack Patience, some lack Godliness, each of these things are a steppingstones in our journey to becoming saints, not all of us finish that course, the good news is found in verse 8 (2 Peter 1:8) I Like the way the ESV translates this so will quote that here: For if these qualities[fn] are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. (2 Peter 1:8, ESV) Meaning so long as we are growing in this process we are counted among the faithful, but have not achieved the full sanctification as saints. Verse 9 then has the warning we must all heed as well should we get stuck in complacency, thinking we are in need of nothing.

This then is what the church of the saints is all about, an understanding of this journey we are all on and growing in that journey, Not about making oneself complacent and satisfied with where they are at but striving for that "high calling" of being a saint.

Do you see this as Biblical? So can a saint know they are a saint? they can know when they have reached the qualities of a saint, but even then it is up to the LORD to choose who will reach that point and finish that race. All the apostles finished this race, except for 2, Judas, who went to perdition and John the author of Revelation, this being why I believe he will be one of the two witnesses but that is another subject altogether.
 

David H.

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Are you of the body or are you of another branch? Or do you know...yet?

We are all members of the same Body, One in Christ Jesus. According to my heritage I am of the tribe of Issachar, but that is not what matters, but that we are a new creation in Christ Jesus, a fruitful branch.
 

marks

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@David H. , Let's narrow the focus slightly, because I don't think you are giving weight to these passages.

Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

You have to know who the saints are to distribute to their necessity.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

Same as above . . .

Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

And again . . .

1Co 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

This requires you know who they are.

1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

Same as above . . .

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Again, the same. You have to know who they are.

Do you not think this is so?

Much love!
 

David H.

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Let's narrow the focus slightly, because I don't think you are giving weight to these passages.

No need to narrow this as I already answered these concerns here... You probably missed it?

A saint, does not know he is a saint until he makes his election and calling sure (read 2 Peter 1) Notice verse one says "obtained", look up the definition of that word and you will see this is referring to a different calling than the calling of faith which is not obtained by "lot", but by belief. Peter then goes on to show the Path to sainthood which begins with faith, add to that virtue, and to virtue knowledge etc, all the way to Brotherly Love, and finally to Agape. It is this Agape love that "marks" a saint who has made their election and calling sure, now all that is left, is for the LORD to choose them to finish the race. So when Paul speaks of the churches of the saints, and addresses living saints it is those who have reached the point of Agape love in their consecration. It is this Agape love empowered by the Holy Ghost that enables the saint to give their testimony.

Peter in this 1st chapter of 2 Peter 1 explains all of this quite eloquently speaking of his foretold death, May i suggest you read and study the entire chapter, because this is not a "narrow focused" post, but a Broad one. this understanding of being a saint is what the church of today has lost, and is why we are as divided as ever. For example understanding this rightly virtually eliminates the whole free will versus predestination divide in the church, but that is a different topic, For now I am focused on the veracity of distinguishing between the saints and the faithful. The saints are a "special class" of Christian, one that is chosen by God, are a completed work of the Holy Spirit in that life, marked by Agape Love, and in total obedience to the New commandment given by Christ Jesus (John 13:34, and John 15:12-13).

While they are briefly among us, we should treasure them and their presence, for soon they will be called to "put off this tabernacle" as Peter was well aware of. No where are the saints more discussed than in Revelation, and Ephesians. These two books of NT is where this will primarily head. The saints are those believers who have reached the fulness of Christ (Eph. 4:13), and it by them the true end time unity of the Spirit comes, As opposed to the false unity of compromise and complacency, which we are seeing unfold all around us in the easy-believism camp of Christianity.

Again, you want to narrow something that is far broader than you can imagine, and this is how the "reformation mindset" works, reducing Salvation to a simple Phrase, "saved by grace alone through faith alone" which is true, but only a very narrow sliver of what it means to be a Christian and live a Christian life.
 

marks

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The saints are a "special class" of Christian

Not true. This will go nowhere.

I think you are still looking outside of yourself for what is already within you, assuming Christ lives in you. Trust that Jesus is sufficient now for all of a godly life.

Much love!
 
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marks

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If you are honest in your own walk you will find yourself somewhere on that Journey to sainthood that Peter describes there

Ephesians 4:22-24
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.


2 Corinthians 5:15-18
15) And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16) Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18) And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Much love!
 
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marks

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Again, you want to narrow something that is far broader than you can imagine, and this is how the "reformation mindset" works, reducing Salvation to a simple Phrase, "saved by grace alone through faith alone" which is true, but only a very narrow sliver of what it means to be a Christian and live a Christian life.

Romans 4:22-5:2
22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!
 
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farouk

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Romans 4:22-5:2
22) And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23) Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24) But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25) Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Much love!
We must rest in the righteousness of God imputed by faith in Christ; this is indeed most Scriptural.
 
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