JW Non-Millennialism: Jesus comes again 'in the flesh'

[Aunty Jane]

Many churches teach that Christ will return in the flesh, even as in the second century the idea developed that Jesus and his associate king-priests would reign in the flesh on earth during the millennium.

This is an excerpt from JW's non-millennialism.

It's a classic corruption of Scripture, in order to misstate Millennialism.

No Scripture says Jesus Christ is coming again in the flesh. Neither does any Scripture say His saints will rule with Him in the flesh.

Is this a joke? One snatch quoted out of context that does not even say what the OP suggests...
It says "Many churches teach that Christ will return in the flesh"......we do not teach what many other "churches" teach.

They reject the Lord's millennium, because it counters their heaven or oblivion natural theology.

Nonsense. The Lord's millennium will rule mankind on earth, (Rev 21:2-4) but the rulers will be in heaven. Jesus said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples, and he went to heaven to do that. Heaven is where his Father's "house" is....it is where God dwells as Jesus said....(Matt 6:9)

They say the soul is flesh and blood and is mortal, and so ceases to exist, when the body is dead. Which means Jesus ceased to exist for three days, and was given an entirely new spiritual body as Michael, when deified in heaven.

The Bible says this....there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible. A "soul" is a living, breathing creature, not some ghostly thing that lives in our body. That idea came from the Greeks, not from the Bible. Animals are called "souls"in the Bible, and we have no advantage over them in death. (Eccl 3:19-20) We all go back to the dust, like Adam was told. (Gen 3:19)

Jesus said that he would be "in the heart of the earth" just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish. Was Johah somewhere else whilst he was confined in the belly of the fish? And since there is no indication that Jesus did not have a name in heaven before coming to this earth, only the trinity prevents him being Michael the Archangel..."the great Prince who stands in behalf of Jehovah's people"......so he can be Michael both before and after his earthly mission as Jesus Christ....because, according to our beliefs, he isn't God, and never was.

And so, they reject the resurrection of the same body we have on earth.

That is because the ones who are resurrected to heaven cannot have a body of flesh because flesh cannot exist in heaven in the presence of God. Those who are brought back in the general resurrection of the dead, (John 5:28-29) as opposed to those who experience the "first resurrection" (Rev 20:6) will be raised in the flesh, called from their graves......but those in heaven guiding them are immortal spirits, whilst the millennial reign of Christ and his elect, will reinstate God's first purpose for humankind on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

No one messes up what we believe quite like you do.....I think that you are just fulfilling prophesy....(John 15:18-21, Matt 5:11-12) it seems to be a personal vendetta to you for some reason.....are you afraid that some might find what we believe to actually be scriptural? I don't find your beliefs backed up by any scripture at all....but I see that you are fond of taking things out of context to give it your own interpretation.....which is of course your problem, not ours.

 

[ewq1938]

The Lord's millennium will rule mankind on earth, (Rev 21:2-4) but the rulers will be in heaven.

No, the rulers will be on the Earth according to the bible.

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Both Rev 2 and 19 promise a future rule over Earthly nations and other scripture says Christ will return with his resurrected saints so the rule and the rulers happens on the Earth.

Jesus said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples, and he went to heaven to do that.

And that's what happened when Christians died, going to heaven but at the second coming Christ and people in heaven will leave to go to the Earth and stay there to rule over others for a thousand years.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I am afraid that the jury is out on that one....going to Bible Gateway and seeing that some translation render that verse as...
AMPC
"And You have made them a kingdom (royal race) and priests to our God, and they shall reign [as kings] over the earth!"
DARBY
"and made them to our God kings and priests; and they shall reign over the earth."

And even the ones who say that they will rule "on the earth" doesn't mean that the rulers have to be here in the flesh. What was the purpose of Christ preparing a place in heaven for his elect in heaven if they were only going to come back to the earth in the flesh?

Not only that, but Paul speaks of the millennial reign and the gathering of Christ's elect as something that doesn't take place until Christ's return. He says that all "sleep" in death until that time.

1 Thess 4:13-18...
"But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words." (ESV)

Those who are "asleep" in their graves, were to stay asleep until the Lord called them from their graves to join him. Christ has the "voice of an Archangel", which makes no sense unless he was an Archangel.
The "dead in Christ" (his saints) were to "rise first". These are mentioned in Revelation 20:6 as those who "will be" kings and priests who with rule with Christ for the thousand years.
Do Christ and his elect need to be on earth in order to rule over mankind? How was God going to rule mankind if his first purpose had gone ahead as he planned? Was God going to come to earth to rule his subjects? I hardly think so as he always appointed human representatives to do that.

Both Rev 2 and 19 promise a future rule over Earthly nations and other scripture says Christ will return with his resurrected saints so the rule and the rulers happens on the Earth.

Almost right.....there will be no "nations" as we know them.....but all who make it through the end times, no matter which nation they are from, will form the united nucleus of the "new earth" (a new earthly society) ruled by the "new heavens" (a new form of government which is not earthly). (2 Peter 3:13) And all will be worshippers of the true God and under the rulership of his son and those chosen to assist him. He will bring redeemed mankind back into reconciliation with their Father....and added to them will be the resurrected ones who will come back in the flesh to resume their lives on earth with their loved ones....and it will take a thousand years to get us there.

Jesus came to give us back what Adam lost for us.....everlasting life in paradise on earth....

And that's what happened when Christians died, going to heaven but at the second coming Christ and people in heaven will leave to go to the Earth and stay there to rule over others for a thousand years.

Well, I will beg to differ because we have to understand when Christ was to come back for the members of his bride who were "sleeping".
Whilst many are waiting for Christ's return, we believe that he is already here, and has been overseeing the fulfillment of the various facets of the sign he gave to his apostles before he died. There are many features of the "sign" that are already fulfilled especially since 1914 CE, but Jesus said these would indicate that he was "present" (parousia) not that he was coming.

He has also been supporting the global preaching about his Kingdom which he said would continue right up till "the end" of the present world order. (Matthew 24:14) "The end" is in sight and the gathering of his bride has been taking place all through these "last days". No longer needing to "sleep" in death, these can be "changed in the twinkling of an eye" and join their Lord in the spirit realm. The full number will be with him when he comes to judge the world.....

 

[ewq1938]

Well, I will beg to differ because we have to understand when Christ was to come back for the members of his bride who were "sleeping".

Again, scripture says he brings them with him. The dead are in heaven so the bringing with him makes sense.

1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So this would make the rule on the Earth not over it since they leave heaven. Also, ruling "over" something does not in any sense mean the rule is from someone floating above or in heaven. It means to rule over a kingdom, the king being right there in the kingdom.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Again, scripture says he brings them with him. The dead are in heaven so the bringing with him makes sense.

1Th_4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So this would make the rule on the Earth not over it since they leave heaven. Also, ruling "over" something does not in any sense mean the rule is from someone floating above or in heaven. It means to rule over a kingdom, the king being right there in the kingdom.

I guess you failed to see the point.....Jesus has already returned, and we believe that 1914 was the year that this took place for several reasons...
1) The prophesies in Daniel that the Jews used to calculate when Messiah was due to make his first appearance, is the same one that brings us to 1914 as the year of his return. They were expecting him in 29 CE.

2) The "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate when his "parousia" began was with unprecedented warfare.....the "First World War" of 1914 was such an unprecedented conflict, engaging all the nations on earth through their signed alliances into a war that no one was expecting.....the trigger for this conflict was nothing foreseen. Arch Ferdinand was assassinated in Sarajevo, and they called it "the shot that was heard around the world" and a global war resulted, the likes of which had never been fought before.

Following that war was the global Spanish Flu epidemic which took more lives than the war did.
Food shortages as a result of the war effort affected many nations as resources and man power were directed to the fighting.
Earthquakes and terrible weather events continue to take a huge toll on humanity.

Gradually we have seen the love that used to be felt among neighbors and humans in general is disappearing as we become more isolated due to the technology that is designed to separate people, and stifle personal interaction face to face.
Read Matthew 24:3-14 and see that it all fits.

Those whom Jesus "brings with him" are the elect who have died and been resurrected since 1914. They no longer had to "sleep" because it was time for Jesus to awaken them. Just before he brings the final curtain down on wicked humanity, those still alive will be instantly transformed into spirit beings to join the Lord "in the air"...not on the earth.

 

[ewq1938]

I guess you failed to see the point.....Jesus has already returned, and we believe that 1914 was the year that this took place for several reasons...

Jesus has not returned.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus has not returned.

What makes you think so?
His "parousia" is his "presence" which is not the same as his "coming" as judge with his elect and his angels to bring about a cleansing of the earth, these are two separate events.

 

[ewq1938]

What makes you think so?

Many important things happen at the second coming, of which there is only one not two as you describe. Those important things have not happened, so He has not returned. 1914 is not a fulfillment of any second coming prophecy, just JW lore only they believe in.

 

[Truth7t7]

Many important things happen at the second coming, of which there is only one not two as you describe. Those important things have not happened, so He has not returned. 1914 is not a fulfillment of any second coming prophecy, just JW lore only they believe in.

It's pre-millennialst lore in teaching of a Millennial Kingdom on this earth,found no place in scripture

 

[ewq1938]

It's pre-millennialst lore in teaching of a Millennial Kingdom on this earth,found no place in scripture

It's taught in scripture. You just deny the teachings.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Many important things happen at the second coming, of which there is only one not two as you describe. Those important things have not happened, so He has not returned. 1914 is not a fulfillment of any second coming prophecy, just JW lore only they believe in.

There are things that happened when Christ returned in 1914 that have fulfilled the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning his "presence", stated in post #26....so what does a "presence" (parousia) indicate? If you were at a gathering and saw someone you knew, would you assume that the time of his coming to the gathering was not known to you...but as he is present, you have to assume that he arrived when you were not observing?

Why would Jesus give a "sign" if his presence was clearly visible as it is when his judgment is delivered? (Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7)

When Jesus "comes" as judge.....then we will "see" what was prophesied to take place, with the cleansing of this earth and the end of all wickedness. No one will be in any doubt as to what is happening.
These are two separate events, with two sets of evidence that identify each one of them, but the interval is not stated. We know when the last days began, but no one knows when they will end.....only God. (Matthew 24:36)

Christ's "presence" precedes all those world events that have already taken place and are still happening, because it was given as a "sign" that he had returned....he is already here, and is overseeing the greatest preaching and disciple making campaign the world has ever seen. (Matt 28:19-20)

When Jesus comes as judge, all will know that he has come, and will be quaking in their boots because they will know that its the time when they will have no excuses to offer. (Matthew 7:21-23)

 

[Truth7t7]

There are things that happened when Christ returned in 1914 that have fulfilled the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning his "presence", stated in post #26....so what does a "presence" (parousia) indicate? If you were at a gathering and saw someone you knew, would you assume that the time of his coming to the gathering was not known to you...but as he is present, you have to assume that he arrived when you were not observing?

Why would Jesus give a "sign" if his presence was clearly visible as it is when his judgment is delivered? (Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7)

When Jesus "comes" as judge.....then we will "see" what was prophesied to take place, with the cleansing of this earth and the end of all wickedness. No one will be in any doubt as to what is happening.
These are two separate events, with two sets of evidence that identify each one of them, but the interval is not stated. We know when the last days began, but no one knows when they will end.....only God. (Matthew 24:36)

Christ's "presence" precedes all those world events that have already taken place and are still happening, because it was given as a "sign" that he had returned....he is already here, and is overseeing the greatest preaching and disciple making campaign the world has ever seen. (Matt 28:19-20)

When Jesus comes as judge, all will know that he has come, and will be quaking in their boots because they will know that its the time when they will have no excuses to offer. (Matthew 7:21-23)

The false 1914 prediction of the second coming, by the cult of Jehovahs Witnesses

 

[ewq1938]

There are things that happened when Christ returned in 1914 that have fulfilled the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning his "presence", stated in post #26....

Jesus did not return in 1914. This is a false claim by early JW's, and only believed by them. It simply is false as is the idea of two second comings.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus did not return in 1914. This is a false claim by early JW's, and only believed by them. It simply is false as is the idea of two second comings.

Its not "two second comings"...its just one...and it took place in 1914 when Christ indicated his return by a series of world events, indicating that it was not a visible presence, but unseen by the world at large......just like his return to heaven. The angels said that Christ would return in the same "manner" as he left.....it was only witnessed by his apostles...the world of that time was unaware that it had taken place.....
In this time of the end, Christ's true disciples discerned the time of his return by examining the scriptures carefully and being like the wise virgins, preparing for the bridegroom's arrival with plenty of oil for their lamps.

Christ is directing the preaching work that he commissioned before he left the earth. But the churches have all kinds of excuses as to why they are not carrying out the Great Commission. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matt 10:11-14; Matt 24:14) It wasn't a suggestion....it was a command.

 

[robert derrick]

There won't be a Millennial Kingdom On This Earth As You Falsely Claim, You And JW's Are In The Same Category Regarding False Claims Made

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Pasting long-winded tradition, is not necessary when just saying no, without addressing anything specific.

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus did not return in 1914. This is a false claim by early JW's, and only believed by them. It simply is false as is the idea of two second comings.

I don't remember any reports of Him shining as lightning from east to west.

At least one person would have mentioned it, since every eye on earth had to see it.

I do remember the radio broadcast about when the Martians came around that time.

 

[robert derrick]

You are so stubborn, you cannot even come to admit you were making false accusations and hurling lies. Christians when they are caught on repent and apologize. But not you!

This whole thread is a joke. Why would anyone take you serious from now on?

It is you that is promoting JW theology.

Boo-hoo

 

[robert derrick]

Perhaps but the point was that they are not Amill's.

I know it's a little off track, but to preach another gospel, is to be anti-gospel of Jesus Christ that Paul preached.

So it is with the Lord's future Millenium on earth.

The question is, who believes in the Millennium of Jesus Christ, that Scripture prophecies, not what men say it is.

One thousand years to the day.
Jesus and His resurrected saints ruling in immortal bodies on earth.
Natural people coming to the Lord to hear Him and walk in His paths.
Disobedient people being punished swiftly.
The lion laying down with the lamb, and no more warfare between nations.

It will be the King's kingdom of peace on this earth, and will be the greatest harvest of souls ever by the gospel of Jesus Christ, preched and ministered by Jesus Himself in Person, as well as by His resurrected saints.

Today, He is preached imperfectly through honest believers and lovers of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. But then, God Himself will do the preaching in Person.

Thanks for telling me. I had no idea something I shared had that much effect on you. Makes it worthwhile to share things!

Amen. Honor should be given where due.

What we are finding on this site, is many Christians have no hope of being perfected in the doctrine of Christ, because they have no interest in being corrected by the truth of Scripture.

Being rid of some fantasy boogey-gene of sin in flesh and bone molecules is huge. Not only is there no more excuse for sinning, but it also frees the mind and spirit to understand the power we have through Christ to do righteousness at all times.

Not to mention no more thinking of babes as little devils to whip into shape.

Not that I'm against spanking.

OSAS people that declare and cling to that stuff, just seek excuse for continued sinning. Now, when I hear of some 'fallen Adamic race', I think Marvel Comics. And when I hear one more 'learned' scholar speak of our 'First Parent', I want to puke.

Like they say, I don't know Adam from Adam. Or something like that.

 

[robert derrick]

Is this a joke? One snatch quoted out of context that does not even say what the OP suggests...
It says "Many churches teach that Christ will return in the flesh"......we do not teach what many other "churches" teach.

Nor do any churches I know of teach what you say they do.

I have never hear any Christian say the Lord's appearing again on earth, is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh again, until I just read it from a JW.

That is your purposed misstatement of others, in order to nullify it. It's a common tactic of false teachers.

I've corrected it in the first posts, and you have no answer for it.

Jesus Christ will never come again to earth in the flesh, as at the first with natural flesh, but rather in His immortal resurrected body.

Neither will He be given a body, in order to be on earth again.

Nor was He ever given another spiritual body, apart from His own resurrected body from the grave.

He raised His own dead body from the grave by power of the Spirit, once He finished preaching to them prisoners in hell.

He laid it down on the cross, and He took it upon again on the third day.

Your stuff is nothing but a way of making all souls dead and non-existing, when the body is in the grave, just so you can do away with any torment of hell and LOF for the wicked dead.

Nonsense. The Lord's millennium will rule mankind on earth, (Rev 21:2-4) but the rulers will be in heaven.

As I said, your JW millennium is not the Lord's in Scripture, even as your JW testament is not the Lord's in Scripture.

Jesus said he was going to "prepare a place" for his disciples, and he went to heaven to do that. Heaven is where his Father's "house" is....it is where God dwells as Jesus said....(Matt 6:9)

True. The many mansions in the Father's house is in heavenly Jerusalem, where God will dwell with man on the new earth.

In the meantime, He and His resurrected saints will rule over them of this earth for one thousand years. To the day.

The Bible says this....there is no teaching of an immortal soul in the Bible.

And voila, here it is. All you JW's are about is trying to believe Heaven or Oblivion.

And so, back to the good ol' natural theology of souls are nothing but flesh and blood.

Once I realized JWs are nothing but heaven or oblivion fantasizers, then I knew all this other rubbish is just sidestepping Scripture wherever necessary, to do away with a tormenting hell and LOF.

You people don't care about your own created christ one bit. He's just a foil to use in thinking you will either obliviate in the end, or be spiritual ghosts forever.

A "soul" is a living, breathing creature, not some ghostly thing that lives in our body. That idea came from the Greeks, not from the Bible. Animals are called "souls"in the Bible, and we have no advantage over them in death. (Eccl 3:19-20) We all go back to the dust, like Adam was told. (Gen 3:19)

Jesus said that he would be "in the heart of the earth" just as Jonah was in the belly of the fish. Was Johah somewhere else whilst he was confined in the belly of the fish? And since there is no indication that Jesus did not have a name in heaven before coming to this earth, only the trinity prevents him being Michael the Archangel..."the great Prince who stands in behalf of Jehovah's people"......so he can be Michael both before and after his earthly mission as Jesus Christ....because, according to our beliefs, he isn't God, and never was.

That is because the ones who are resurrected to heaven cannot have a body of flesh because flesh cannot exist in heaven in the presence of God. Those who are brought back in the general resurrection of the dead, (John 5:28-29) as opposed to those who experience the "first resurrection" (Rev 20:6) will be raised in the flesh, called from their graves......but those in heaven guiding them are immortal spirits, whilst the millennial reign of Christ and his elect, will reinstate God's first purpose for humankind on earth. (Rev 21:2-4)

Like others, you people can't help yourself but make sure your tradition gets written in full, no matter what subject is at hand.

Like Gnostics, you just like to hear yourself talk, or see your words written.

No one messes up what we believe quite like you do.....

Yes, I have been made a sort of master of your stuff, by reading exactly what you write. And I appreciate the honor of being singled out as your most effective rebuker. Thanks.

I have learned much more perfectly the truth of scripoture, by the necessity of accurately correcting your errors.

Now, I will say this, having been a holiness Pentecostal myself, I do give credit to your dress and manner of life, though overdone, but your testament is false, and the one proof of it is, that you cannot confess you know the Lord Jesus, nor that He has made you spiritually pure within by His Spirit.

True?

I think that you are just fulfilling prophesy....(John 15:18-21, Matt 5:11-12)

Yes, Thanks. I've been accused also of actually fulfilling a personal prophecy of one of the Sabbath-Commanders prophets from the 1800's.

The problem with making claims of persecution, simply because someone rejects your teaching and gospel, is it's grossly overstated, like crying wolf, where there is only a sheep rejecting and shunning you.

it seems to be a personal vendetta to you for some reason....

I always like to say, that be the need of correcting errors, the truth becomes clearer and clearer.

That is why I keep looking for something new, and down continue down old endless roads.

I'm not saying a JW or anyone trying to teach Christianity can't correct me in some point, it's just that is rarer than I would like.

are you afraid that some might find what we believe to actually be scriptural?

Oh, I know you do. Many people think of themselves as spiritual, but it's really a matter of what spirit we are of.

Some think they are the most spiritual people on the planet, and yet they are spiritual Sodom and Egypt.

And guess what, many of them are some of the most holiness dressers on the planet. they are easy to spot, because they make sure of it.

Now, I'm not saying any woman has to cut their hair, but when they treat their hair as covering for the sanctum sanctorum, so that they consider it blasphemy to even trim it just a wee bit, then they make an idol of their hair.

Of course, women getting men's haircuts dishonors God and man, and shameful hippy men need to get a haircut already. Especially the old kooks that still try to make it look normal.

I don't find your beliefs backed up by any scripture at all....but I see that you are fond of taking things out of context to give it your own interpretation.....which is of course your problem, not ours.

Which of course never includes specifically showing how and why. Just blanketing everything with long-winded tradition, doesn't cut it.

And resorting to cries of persecution is a joke.

 

[WPM]

Boo-hoo

Your campaign of hate and misinformation is crumbling before your face.