Keeping Jesus' commands is requirement for salvation, not the doctrine of trinity

[meshak]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

 

[williemac]

I'm so glad you included 1John3:22. Here is the following verse..." And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment".
This is what is compatible with new testament teaching. The new covenant commandments are a new set of commandments. The law of commandments given on MNT Sinai are not the commandmentys that are to be kept for salvation. How do we know this? Rom.10:4, for example..." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe...."

So how is this reconciled with Math.19:16-19? Very simple. Jesus was speaking to those under the law concerning what the law required of them. This requirement ended when faith came. It was replaced. And this happened after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Before Jesus came onto the scene, the people were under the impression that the requirement of the law was an attainable goal that could be reached. Jesus clarified the law, giving it the correct standard, so that they could come to the end of themselves and realize that they needed a Savior.

How do we know this? Simple. Paul gave the Galatians a proper understanding of when the law came and what its purpose was. It was not part of the original covenant made to Abraham. It was put in place for a season, until faith should come. This is all explained in Gal.3. In 3:11, we read that no one is justifiied by the law. In 3:21, we read that there was no law given that could give life through the keeping of it.

Meshak, you are unwittingly bringing a message of bondage to those on this site. You will be opposed.

 

[KCKID]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Which commandments, meshak ...the Ten Commandments or the Ten Commandments PLUS the 600-odd commandments of the Torah?

 

[meshak]

Which commandments, meshak ...the Ten Commandments or the Ten Commandments PLUS the 600-odd commandments of the Torah?

I said "Jesus' commands" friend.

 

[KCKID]

I said "Jesus' commands" friend.

Okay. Would you be more specific?

 

[meshak]

I'm so glad you included 1John3:22. Here is the following verse..." And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment".
This is what is compatible with new testament teaching. The new covenant commandments are a new set of commandments. The law of commandments given on MNT Sinai are not the commandmentys that are to be kept for salvation. How do we know this? Rom.10:4, for example..." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe...."

So how is this reconciled with Math.19:16-19? Very simple. Jesus was speaking to those under the law concerning what the law required of them. This requirement ended when faith came. It was replaced. And this happened after the death and resurrection of Jesus. Before Jesus came onto the scene, the people were under the impression that the requirement of the law was an attainable goal that could be reached. Jesus clarified the law, giving it the correct standard, so that they could come to the end of themselves and realize that they needed a Savior.

How do we know this? Simple. Paul gave the Galatians a proper understanding of when the law came and what its purpose was. It was not part of the original covenant made to Abraham. It was put in place for a season, until faith should come. This is all explained in Gal.3. In 3:11, we read that no one is justifiied by the law. In 3:21, we read that there was no law given that could give life through the keeping of it.

Meshak, you are unwittingly bringing a message of bondage to those on this site. You will be opposed.

I know what I am talking about, and anything you quoted do not support "you have to believe in the trinity to be saved."

Okay. Would you be more specific?

You dont sound like you have been reading the NT. Jesus gives us many commands that related to "1)love God and 2) love your neighbor as yourself" commands.

All Jesus' commands sum up in those two.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galations 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galations 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[meshak]

Okay. Would you be more specific?

I already did. Read the NT and find out what Jesus commands in detail. They are tons. If you are serious about Christianity, read the NT, especially Jesus' word.

It is not much of read, friend. It is better to go to Jesus' word than asking around to others.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galations 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galations 3:24

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring usunto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

You continually go to Paul's teachings when Jesus says it simply to be faithful to Him until the end.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

I already did. Read the NT and find out what Jesus commands in detail. They are tons. If you are serious about Christianity, read the NT, especially Jesus' word.

It is not much of read, friend. It is better to go to Jesus' word than asking around to others.


You continually go to Paul's teachings when Jesus says it simply to be faithful to Him until the end.

You continually go to Jesus teaching to the exclusion of Paul. What's with that? Didn't Jesus say teach them to "observe all things that I commanded...' Had not Paul a direct encounter with Christ. Is he not an Apostle? Does not the scripture say NO scripture is of PRIVATE INTERPRETATION....? Doesn't the scripture's say that all scripture is inspired of GOD (JESUS) and is profitable... Isn't Paul an apostle to the gentiles? Doesn't Paul say if NO man LOVE Jesus let him be....? DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT PAUL WOULD CONTRADICT JESUS IN ANY POINT?

Allow me to remind you: 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Your title is deceptive. On the one hand you posit a heresy only to on the other hand to deposit a deflection from it knowing what people may think about the Trinity in the vain hope of slipping in your false understanding about grace and law..

Your basic formula is this: Faith + Works = Salvation.

You by definition are a Judaizer. A fair portion of scripture is devoted to such heretical teachings that find there strength or impetus from the flesh.

 

[williemac]

You continually go to Jesus teaching to the exclusion of Paul. What's with that? Didn't Jesus say teach them to "observe all things that I commanded...' Had not Paul a direct encounter with Christ. Is he not an Apostle? Does not the scripture say NO scripture is of PRIVATE INTERPRETATION....? Doesn't the scripture's say that all scripture is inspired of GOD (JESUS) and is profitable... Isn't Paul an apostle to the gentiles? Doesn't Paul say if NO man LOVE Jesus let him be....? DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT PAUL WOULD CONTRADICT JESUS IN ANY POINT?

Allow me to remind you: 2 Peter 3:16

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable twist, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Your title is deceptive. On the one hand you posit a heresy only to on the other hand to deposit a deflection from it knowing what people may think about the Trinity in the vain hope of slipping in your false understanding about grace and law..

Your basic formula is this: Faith + Works = Salvation.

You by definition are a Judaizer. A fair portion of scripture is devoted to such heretical teachings that find there strength or impetus from the flesh.

Amen, JB...Amen

 

[daq]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Hi meshak,
It seems perhaps true that you may have thrown in the Trinity subject when in reality it has not much to do with the wars between the "Law" crowd and the "Grace only" crowd. However, if you would like some help with these things just ask, (since it is clear you have already been ganged up on by the "Grace only" crowd). Don't worry, there are plenty of believers who believe just as you do because they believe every word of Messiah and do not dare attempt to put him and his doctrine into a separate "dispensation" as some here have already stated that they believe. The same who do such things in the chambers of their imagery succeed only in cutting themselves off from the Master. You left out one supremely important statement from one of your Scripture quotes that I would like to add:

John 14:21-23 KJV
21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

 

[Rach1370]

He are the verses to support my claim:


1. John 14:15
◦New King James Version
“If you love Me, keep My
commandments.

2. John 14:21
◦New King James Version
He who has
My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will
be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”


3. John 15:10
◦New King James Version
If you keep My
commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s
commandments and abide in His love.

4. Acts 15:24
◦New King James
Version
Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you
with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the
law” —to whom we gave no such commandment—)

5. 1 Corinthians 7:19

◦New King James Version
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is
nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

6. 1
Timothy 6:14
◦New King James Version
that you keep this commandment
without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing,

7. 1
John 2:3
◦New King James Version
The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this
we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

8. 1 John 2:4

◦New King James Version
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His
commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9. 1 John 3:22

◦New King James Version
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because
we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.


10. 1 John 3:24
◦New King James Version
The Spirit of Truth and
the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in
him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given
us.

11. 1 John 5:2
◦New King James Version
By this we know that
we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.


12. 1 John 5:3
◦New King James Version
For this is the love of
God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.


13. Revelation 12:17
◦New King James Version
And the dragon was
enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring,
who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


14. Revelation 14:12
◦New King James Version
Here is the
patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the
faith of Jesus.

And here is confirmation from Jesus of keeping Ten
commandments as requirement.

Matthew 19:16-19
New International
Version (NIV)
16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what
good thing must I do to get eternal life?” 17 “Why do you ask me about what is
good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life,
keep the commandments.”
18 “Which ones?” he inquired.
Jesus replied,
“‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you
shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love
your neighbor as yourself.’

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is
laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth
good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Can I ask how you then deal with these verses?

even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—(Ephesians 2:5 ESV)


For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV)


For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 6:23 ESV)


Forget the Trinity for the moment, you have more pressing needs. You are currently stuck in a works based righteousness...

We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose. (Galatians 2:15-21 ESV)

The harder you work to achieve salvation, the more you "nullify" the grace of God.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

It's important to note the difference between institutional belief and personal belief. An institution that teaches something contrary to the Trinity is not a Christian institution. A person who believes Christ has divinity, but does not believe the Trinity, is not unChristian or barred from salvation.

The truth of the matter is that the Trinity does not enlighten one on anything much more then the belief of modalism or, simply, God has a son. Some Christians won't admit it, but it is true. The only enlightment you get with the Trinity over the other concepts is a metaphysical observation.

The difference with an institution teaching something contrary to the Trinity is that it is, quite simply, teaching a falsehood and cannot be considered a bonafide church of Christ- they are not teaching the correct observation of the God, which is the very cornerstone of their church and purpose.

Before the trinity concept arose, early Christians saw Jesus as the Son of God. There was no consensus on the specifics. In fact, the Trinity concept did not go without dispute until the 4th century creeds, when most Christians were indeed modalists and the Church fathers had to reconcile that error.


All in all, saying one must beleive in the Trinity to be saved is ludicrous. It was a metaphysical theology put forth by a man named Turtulian in the 2nd century, and went without much notice until the 4th century. The notion that you have to believe the Trinity to be saved is completely without merit.

 

[meshak]

The harder you work to achieve salvation, the more you "nullify" the grace of God.

Jesus says to make every effort to get into God's kingdom.

Why do you resist Jesus word, friend?

the harder you work for Him the more power to you from the Holy Spirit. Holy Spirit is sent by Jesus to be faithful to Him.

All in all, saying one must beleive in the Trinity to be saved is ludicrous.

. do you know that the RCC initiated this claim and protestant agreed?

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

.

meshak

Have you kept all the commands flawlessly ?

 

[meshak]

.

meshak

Have you kept all the commands flawlessly ?

This thread is not about me, friend. It is about what Jesus commands.

Hi meshak,
It seems perhaps true that you may have thrown in the Trinity subject when in reality it has not much to do with the wars between the "Law" crowd and the "Grace only" crowd. However, if you would like some help with these things just ask, (since it is clear you have already been ganged up on by the "Grace only" crowd). Don't worry, there are plenty of believers who believe just as you do because they believe every word of Messiah and do not dare attempt to put him and his doctrine into a separate "dispensation" as some here have already stated that they believe. The same who do such things in the chambers of their imagery succeed only in cutting themselves off from the Master. You left out one supremely important statement from one of your Scripture quotes that I would like to add:

John 14:21-23 KJV
21. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Hi daq,

thank you for your kind reply. those verses are already in the OP.

I have this thread because trinity believers dont seem to honor Jesus' teachings or commands. If we appreciate "grace", we will not say obeying Jesus' teachings are not requirement for salvation.

 

[Selene]

One of the tenents of being a Christian is the belief in the Holy Trinity. Jesus is God. Christians believe that Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God........and they are not Christians.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

All in all, saying one must beleive in the Trinity to be saved is ludicrous. It was a metaphysical theology put forth by a man named Turtulian in the 2nd century, and went without much notice until the 4th century. The notion that you have to believe the Trinity to be saved is completely without merit.

What he said.

 

[Selene]

It's important to note the difference between institutional belief and personal belief. An institution that teaches something contrary to the Trinity is not a Christian institution. A person who believes Christ has divinity, but does not believe the Trinity, is not unChristian or barred from salvation.

The truth of the matter is that the Trinity does not enlighten one on anything much more then the belief of modalism or, simply, God has a son. Some Christians won't admit it, but it is true. The only enlightment you get with the Trinity over the other concepts is a metaphysical observation.

The difference with an institution teaching something contrary to the Trinity is that it is, quite simply, teaching a falsehood and cannot be considered a bonafide church of Christ- they are not teaching the correct observation of the God, which is the very cornerstone of their church and purpose.

Before the trinity concept arose, early Christians saw Jesus as the Son of God. There was no consensus on the specifics. In fact, the Trinity concept did not go without dispute until the 4th century creeds, when most Christians were indeed modalists and the Church fathers had to reconcile that error.


All in all, saying one must beleive in the Trinity to be saved is ludicrous. It was a metaphysical theology put forth by a man named Turtulian in the 2nd century, and went without much notice until the 4th century. The notion that you have to believe the Trinity to be saved is completely without merit.

The Apostles believed in the Holy Trinity They understood the nature of God to be "three persons in one God." They knew that Christ was God incarnate. The modalists came in the second century and was founded by Theodotus. The modualists were first called "Theodotians" after their founder.

You are correct in that one does not need to believe in the Trinity to be saved. Yet, it helps one to understand His true nature.

 

[meshak]

One of the tenents of being a Christian is the belief in the Holy Trinity. Jesus is God. Christians believe that Jesus is God. Jews and Muslims do not believe that Jesus is God........and they are not Christians.

I understand mainstream churches have this creed but it is not Jesus' word. Jesus says we know them by their fruit, not by what they say.


What is a creed if they dont honor being obedient to Jesus, even they claim Jesus is God.

And I am Jesus' servant. Jesus is my Lord, not any organization or denomination.

The Apostles believed in the Holy Trinity

Reference?

thanks.