Keeping Jesus' commands is requirement for salvation, not the doctrine of trinity
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The op talks of the commandments of Jesus. There is no mention of faithfulness anywhere in it. But this was my reply to the op:meshak said:
I'm so glad you included 1John3:22.
Here is the following verse..." And this is His commandment: that we
should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another,
as He gave us commandment".
This is what is compatible with new testament teaching. The new
covenant commandments are a new set of commandments. The law of
commandments given on MNT Sinai are not the commandmentys that are to be
kept for salvation. How do we know this? Rom.10:4, for example..." For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to all who believe...."
My point was, and still is, that the first and most important new covenant commandment is to believe on Jesus for salvation.. This is what that means; It means that the sacrifice of Jesus is what takes God's wrath for sin away from those who accept that it does. This is what believing in Jesus is. It is taking His word that He has accomlished on our behalf what we could not accomplish for ourselves. This is not negotiable. He commands that we accpet His offering for our sin, and His righteousness instead of our own. The other commandment is that we l;ove one another. These two are the basis of new covenant commandment. Love is the fulfillment of the law. The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness gentleness, and self control. These are how we are to treat others. But it doesn't end with that...."..against such there is no law"..
I would expect you to agree with this to some degree. However, wher you are in error is to suggest that we are to bear this fruit perfectly...or else! The difference between this covenant and that of law, is that in this one, perfection is not a requirement. A little fruit is enough...not that we should settle with just a little. But that Jesus will not break a bended reed, nor will He snuff out a smouldering wick..as He said. He knows we are weak. He knows that many come to Him from huge disfunction, physical, emotional, and mental abuse, addictions, poor upbringing, poor education, brainwashed, mentally challenged, and a whole host of other problems that this world throws at the innocent and the weak and even the strong.
I am not impressed at those who come along with their high expectations of everyone else with threats of eternal hell if people don't measure up, and no willingness to cut people any slack or give people any benefit of the doubt. This is not what Jesus was or is all about. He was a friend of sinners, and rebuked the self righteous. His most underrated command perhaps is that we should humble ourselves. He gives grace to the humble. He resists the proud. Remember that, my friend. Blessings.
How do you be faithful to Jesus? by keeping His commandments or teachings.williemac said:
Why dont you understand this simple logic?
How do I serve Jesus ?? ..... this sounds like another one of those catch phrases I hear from time to timemeshak said:
Jesus gave all kinds of responsibility to His servants. If you cannot think of any, you have a problem, sir.Arnie Manitoba said:
blessings.
Hi Meshakmeshak said:
If you believe Jesus is Lord, then you believe in the trinity as a requirement of being a Christian, surely. You cannot call Jesus Lord unless you are saved Cor 12:3.
As for obeying Jesus commandments, yes we must! But not religiously. Example. Think about the differences in your relationship with your house cleaner and your wife. It goes without saying that your wife will be good to you. She will do those things that please you. But you will not hold her to them!!! You can and will only hold your wife to her marriage vows. But your cleaner, if she does not do as she is told / expected to, she is fired. She will not get paid. Will you fire your wife for not cleaning the house if she is a full time house wife? Will you divorce your wife for serving you raw eggs when she knows you like them well done? Will you divorce your wife if she never serves you breakfast? Like-wise with God. When we are first saved, it took tapping into a depth of our heart. God never forgets that. All our actions are judged in the light of that one time decision to be with Him. Like a divorce, it should only be possible if there is adultery. Now adultery with God is best equated to continuing in an extremity of sin / inner rebellion. Example, if my wife continues in watching porn, it will be tough but we will work on it. If my wife continues in adultery it will be tough to forgive her for a once-off but a repeated incident, I have to let her go. Likewise with God, continue in an extremity of sin and you will lose your salvation.
I guess your thread OP comes down to the discussion of once saved always saved or needing to walk the narrow road to keep our salvation. I agree with you then as the latter is wiser. The only things to remember is that good works are easy when you love your wife and it is hard to lose your relationship. You need a complete change of heart, not simply ''not being faithful to His commandments''. Though, that is a sign of inner rebellion brewing.
In conclusion, Jesus saying ''If you love me you will obey my commandments'' is like me saying to my wife ''if you love me you will do those things that please me'', duh? Of course she will if she loves me, but dare I hold her to any of them exept for our marriage vows.
What would you say your marriage vows to Jesus were?
Nope, I dont believe in man-made doctrines. I dont belong to any organization because they make up their own doctrines. It is not of Jesus. Where did Jesus say we have to believe in the trinity or Jesus is God? You cannot find find any such text.KingJ said:
Of course I the HS decesended on Jesus. It is in the text. Yes, Jesus is sitting right hand of God. It is in the text.
I say He is Son of God and Savior of the world and He is my Lord too. They are all in the text.
The text say Jesus is Son of God and it all says God is only one, not made up of three persons.
Do you get the idea?
blessings.
You didnt read the verse I gave? You cannot call yourself a Christian if you don't believe Jesus is God. We all need a revelation like Peter had in Matthew 16 17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.meshak said:
Cor 12:3 Therefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.
The context here is not like what you propose 'Jesus is my Lord and God is my God'...rather that Jesus is God. They are one.
You are simply wrong bud. It is God the Father. God the Son and God the Holy ghost.meshak said:
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Col 2:9 For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body.
Three individual beings but all in unity as one God. Similar to marriage. Two parents but one flesh and spirit (Mark 10:8).
Where in scripture does it teach that a marriage is between three (3) persons? (hmmm... this is starting to get kind of kinky)KingJ said:
You keep tell me I am not a christian without any legit backing up. I just told you why you are wrong. You just keep twist the text and add your own reasonings.KingJ said:
Where does it say God is made up of three persons?
I understand the logic. But I disagree with the conclusion you have arrived at. You did not reply to my entire post, as usual. Just picking out one part is typical of your M.O. This is how you arrived at your conclusions in the op. You are hanging it on partial information. You do not know the whole story, or maybe you ignore the rest of the scripture, I'm not sure which. Be that as it may, your conclusions contradict other things Jesus said, which are confirmed in the new testament. The fact that you don't mind or don't care that your teachings contradict scrpiture is a sign that either you are in over your head, or that you are out of your calling.meshak said:
Sorry, I don't mean to offend you by that. But you must know that this is not uncommon to misinterpret scripture by using passages out of context. I have explained these things in other posts, to which you have not replied.
It seems I need to start at the ground level with you. Do you believe Jesus is God. Yes or no?meshak said:
Your OP statement would certainly seem to be true (on the surface),
but what do you think about these verses? ...
Jesus hinted (or flat out stated) that He was “I AM” (God)
God told Moses that “I AM” was His name “forever” (Exodus 3:14-15)
“… if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)
“When you lift up (crucify) the Son of Man,
then (at the resurrection) you will know that I AM …” (John 8:28)
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (John 8:58)
“… when it (His betrayal) does come to pass, you may believe that I AM.” (John 13:19)
“Now when He said to them, ‘I AM’, they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)
“I have told you that I AM.” (John 18:8)
“Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you AM.” (John 4:26)
None of the 7 verses above have “he” after “I AM” in the Greek manuscripts,
i.e. many of the English translations have just inserted the “he” for readability!
but what do you think about these verses? ...
Jesus hinted (or flat out stated) that He was “I AM” (God)
God told Moses that “I AM” was His name “forever” (Exodus 3:14-15)
“… if you do not believe that I AM, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)
“When you lift up (crucify) the Son of Man,
then (at the resurrection) you will know that I AM …” (John 8:28)
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” (John 8:58)
“… when it (His betrayal) does come to pass, you may believe that I AM.” (John 13:19)
“Now when He said to them, ‘I AM’, they drew back and fell to the ground.” (John 18:6)
“I have told you that I AM.” (John 18:8)
“Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you AM.” (John 4:26)
None of the 7 verses above have “he” after “I AM” in the Greek manuscripts,
i.e. many of the English translations have just inserted the “he” for readability!
You added your own commentary. Jesus did not hint. It is clear that what Jesus was saying the He existed before Abraham.John Zain said:
I already told you no. that does not make me I am not His servant because I have been already serving Him faithfully as He commands. Jesus does not care what we say. He says we know them by their fruit. Trinity churches' fruit is not so godly or faithful to Him.KingJ said:
Jesus says "you call me Lord but you do not do what I say". This is exactly what trinity churches are doing and this is their fruit. It is called lip service and hypocrisy. Jesus hates hypocrisy and hypocrites will not inherit God's kingdom.
So you dont believe in the trinity? You sound like oneness. Are you?ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
[/QUOTE]No I usually dont address the whole posts because I address one at a time. Most posts have a lot of twisted interpretation.williemac said:
NKJ. John1:1..."In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God" . vs.2 "He was in the beginning with God"..vs3. "All things were made through Him and without Him nothing was made that was made". ...vs.14.." And the word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth"..
When was He begotten? When He became flesh, through the virgin birth. When did He come into existence? He was always in existence. The passage holds a mystery. It says He both was with God and was God.
What was created apart from Jesus? Nothing.
Is it any harder to accept three eternal members of the Godhead than two?
When was He begotten? When He became flesh, through the virgin birth. When did He come into existence? He was always in existence. The passage holds a mystery. It says He both was with God and was God.
What was created apart from Jesus? Nothing.
Is it any harder to accept three eternal members of the Godhead than two?
I'm not one for labels. Some of what they believe, I believe; some things I do not.meshak said:
Is Jesus Father too?ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Jesus says He cannot do nothing on His own. He does what His Father wants Him to do.. Almightyywilliemac said:
God never say such thing, friend.
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