Keeping Sabbath not in effect

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quietthinker

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Highlighting the 4th may be a good place to start, but it certainly doesn't end there. I think this is where most Christians who observe the 4th go wrong. They tend to set the 4th commandment up as the definitive mark while justifying their ignorance of the rest of God's laws, or blatantly disregarding specific laws.
snarkle...this is not only addressed to you but to all who read here. The expressions; 'most christians'...'some people'...'most people'...'other people' etc etc serve to take the responsibility off oneself. Might I suggest if integrity is of value that owning one's statements shifts the perspective and lessons the blaming of others. :)
 

shnarkle

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snarkle...this is not only addressed to you but to all who read here. The expressions; 'most christians'...'some people'...'most people'...'other people' etc etc serve to take the responsibility off oneself. Might I suggest if integrity is of value that owning one's statements shifts the perspective and lessons the blaming of others. :)

Thanks for catching that. Here's the corrected version: I think this is where those who observe the 4th go wrong. We tend to set the 4th commandment up as the definitive mark while justifying our ignorance of the rest of God's laws, or blatantly disregarding specific laws.
 

Truth

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The 4th commandment (3rd in Catholicism) is no longer in effect in the same way it was during OT times. We are no longer to slavishly observe Sunday or Saturday or any other day designated by church authority, for Christ is all and in all. Each day is Holy gift of God and should be lived as such, as we await the coming day of His glorious Revelation. Demanding people observe a certain day (as is the case of SDA) are in error.

Romans 14:5-6
Galatians 4:8-12
Colossians 2:16-17

Christ is our Sabbath rest and all we need.

Hebrews 4:17-34

Discuss this controversial subject.

Well I Totally disagree, How many Believer's in this world, declare that GOD THE SAME YESTERDAY, TODAY, AND FOREVER? The very last book of the OT, Malachi Chapt 3 verse 6-"For I AM The LORD, I do Not CHANGE, what part of I do not change is difficult to understand? Here is the next bit of Info, What Olive are we supposed to be Grafted into, the root and fatness of the Olive Tree [ Israel ] Paul said it correctly there is neither Jew or Greek, for we will all be Israel, ONE ! Our Heavenly Father sanctified One Day, and if you do a little research into the council of Trent you would find out who changed the Sabbath, I will paraphrase Constantine's Edict, We will no longer keep the Sabbath's of the Jew's, we will work on that day, and we will keep the Lord's day, Oh and if you did not follow His Edict then you were put to Death! God also said that the Sabbath was a sign between HIM and His people, Are we His people? But do as you see fit, as for Me and My House we will Serve the LORD!
What next, do we commit Adultery, or Covet our Neighbors Stuff, where do we hold the line? Have you every considered How we are to Provoke Israel to Jealousy? Have you every wondered why the Jewish people do not even look to Christianity as a Faith to the God of Israel?
Can you tell Me how many Torah's there are? Paul went throughout Asia Preaching the Gospel, and then the Pharisees that had become believer's came in behind Paul and tried to enforce there Oral Torah on the Gentiles, the Scripture calls them Jews, but they were Pharisees, the religious faction of the era during our Saviors Ministry, completely a manmade religion. When you read the book of John, the word Jews is there like 60+ times, it is in reference to the Religious Leaders, not the Jews that were following Jesus, they were almost all Jews, being healed, coming to the Faith, He fed 5000 men, not including women and children, How many were Jews? Well I went off a little, but God Sanctified only One Sabbath, besides the Feast's of the LORD, not the Feasts of the Jews!
Acts 1 ver 1 The former Account I made, O Theophilus, OF ALL JESUS began Both to "DO" and Teach-- Jesus instructed His disciples to make disciples, teaching them all that He had taught them, WDJD- What did Jesus Do, He kept the Sabbath, and also If any Man breaks one of the least of these commandment's and teaches other's to do so, He shall be called least in the Kingdom, But if any Man keep's and teaches others to do so He shall be called Great in the Kingdom - Matthew 5:19. well I believe the word's of My Master, Red Letter's!!
 
B

brakelite

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It is called the Lord's Day in Scripture (Rev 1:10),
John stating that he was in the spirit on the Lord's Day does not prove that that day was the first day. That is merely assumption and wishful thinking.

But Christ took it one step forward and also made it a day for good works
No, He revealed what the Sabbath was intended to be all along, unburdened from the restrictions and unreasonable demands of man.
So if these objectives are moved to the first day of the week,
And here's the rub. You acknowledge they were moved yes, but on whose authority? That issue is what lies at the core of Adventist thinking on this subject. Whose authority formed the basis of Sabbath observance in the beginning? Whose authority formed the basis of Sunday observance in the 2nd and 3rd centuries forward?
I know that you are an honest Bible student and that you would refrain from using scripture as a vindication for Sunday first day observance as others do. I know that you are aware that there is no example of Sunday observance in acts, or in any of the epistles. That is why it comes down to authority. Upon whose authority did the early church discard the Sabbath in favour of Sunday?
Not scripture.
Not prophets.
Not Revelation.
But the secular command of a pagan ruler still faithful to his Sun god and a church which was quite happy to distance herself from the despised Jews, so another day other than the Sabbath was gratefully accepted.
But don't be fooled into thinking that this was either popular or a majority decision. This was a Roman decision. Churches outside of Rome accepted it only under great duress, and some not at all. The church had to invent all manner of reasons to support the decision, the celebrated 8th day thing a sad joke which denies creation, and the Creator, but no surprise there considering the Sabbath celebrates creation and the Creator, and confirms the 7 day creation week. In fact without the Sabbath, there is no week.
 
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quietthinker

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Thanks for catching that. Here's the corrected version: I think this is where those who observe the 4th go wrong. We tend to set the 4th commandment up as the definitive mark while justifying our ignorance of the rest of God's laws, or blatantly disregarding specific laws.
All of God's commandments are equally valid, it is however in the fourth Commandment that he has his seal ie, the identifier of who the author of the Commandments is.
I am persuaded that when the appointed time comes it will also be the identifier of those who have the Seal of God as stated in the book of Revelation as opposed to the mark of the beast who will insist on keeping the laws of men.

Forget micro chips and the such. The matter will be one of worship as it has always been in history. Consider Daniels three friends in Babylon or Elijah or the disciples. The persecution they endured always centred around who was worshiped...the Gods of man (rules) or the Commandments of God.

I have yet to hear a persuasive position other than the one just stated.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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The 4th commandment (3rd in Catholicism) is no longer in effect in the same way it was during OT times. We are no longer to slavishly observe Sunday or Saturday or any other day designated by church authority, for Christ is all and in all. Each day is Holy gift of God and should be lived as such, as we await the coming day of His glorious Revelation. Demanding people observe a certain day (as is the case of SDA) are in error.

Romans 14:5-6
Galatians 4:8-12
Colossians 2:16-17

Christ is our Sabbath rest and all we need.

Hebrews 4:17-34

Discuss this controversial subject.
I would agree with you that Sabbath keeping has been done away with for when Christ died on the cross he took ALL the OT law out of the way making it inactive, ineffective. He replaced the OT law with His NT, Hebrews 10:9. The OT law regulated the religion of Judaism while the NT law regulates the religion of Christianity.

In the NT that regulates Christianity we have in Acts of the Apostles 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

--the verb "came together" is passive voice meaning coming together was not a capricious choice the disciples made up for themselves but were being directed by God to come together. So there is Divine appointment and authority to come together on the first day of every week.

--the purpose of the coming together was to break bread which here is a reference to the Lord's Supper. Christians then are to meet on the first day of the week to take the Lord's Supper and since every week has a first day then it would be a meeting every week. In addition to taking the Lord's Supper every week they were commanded to "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come." (ESV) 1 Corinthians 16:2. (The word "every" is not in all English translations but it is in the original text.)
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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I would agree with you that Sabbath keeping has been done away with for when Christ died on the cross he took ALL the OT law out of the way making it inactive, ineffective. He replaced the OT law with His NT, Hebrews 10:9. The OT law regulated the religion of Judaism while the NT law regulates the religion of Christianity.

In the NT that regulates Christianity we have in Acts of the Apostles 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

--the verb "came together" is passive voice meaning coming together was not a capricious choice the disciples made up for themselves but were being directed by God to come together. So there is Divine appointment and authority to come together on the first day of every week.

--the purpose of the coming together was to break bread which here is a reference to the Lord's Supper. Christians then are to meet on the first day of the week to take the Lord's Supper and since every week has a first day then it would be a meeting every week. In addition to taking the Lord's Supper every week they were commanded to "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come." (ESV) 1 Corinthians 16:2. (The word "every" is not in all English translations but it is in the original text.)

As to your first paragraph statement,
..Sabbath keeping has been done away with for when Christ died on the cross he took ALL the OT law out of the way making it inactive, ineffective. He replaced the OT law with His NT, Hebrews 10:9. The OT law regulated the religion of Judaism while the NT law regulates the religion of Christianity

..I would agree with you that OLD Testament Sabbath keeping has been done away with for when Christ died on the cross, HE, The Law of God, died, taking ALL the OT Law--OF GOD-- "out of the way", <<making it inactive, ineffective>>-- DEAD! So GOD IN CHRIST RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD, and <He> -Jesus-, <<replaced the OT Law with His NT>> Law--HIMSELF--, encompassing All Law of God.

"God thus .. BY THE SON IN THESE LAST DAYS .. concerning the Seventh Day SPAKE." Hebrews 4:4. "Now in the end(-time) Christ appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself .. So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many."
"Now this Man, JESUS, after He had offered one Sacrifice for sins forever", having Resurrected from the dead, "SAT DOWN (RESTED) AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD --THE LAW-- EXPECTING HENCEFORTH his enemies be made his footstool / -rest."

<<Wherefore The OT law regulated the religion of Judaism while the NT Law --JESUS CHRIST RESURRECTED--, regulates the religion of Christianity>> Christ being its Law that <<regulates the religion of Christianity>>; Christ's Resurrection being its Commandment "concerning the Seventh Day"; "the day after the Preparation .. the weekly Sabbath .. before the First Day of the week" being "the day The Seventh Day God from all, his, works-of-REST, RESTED."
And we have seen which works of rest of God these were, That Christ "appeared again from the dead" "God RESTING HIM have RAISED Him from the dead", "on the Sabbath", and, "RESTING Him at his own Right Hand, exalted Christ HIS HEAVENLY HOLINESS YOUR MAJESTY" .. "LORD AND CHRIST" "our Saviour"!
 

shnarkle

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I claimed nothing of the kind;

Of course you did. Here's the context:
shnarkle said: "There are no new laws against keeping any of God's commandments."

To which you responded with this:
Wrong and uninformed and false!

Again, you simply made the claim without ever supporting it. We're still waiting.

it's YOUR verbage, this <<laws that prohibit us from keeping God's commandments.>>.

In it's full context, this
Please be so kind to reveal where these new laws are that prohibit us from keeping God's commandments.

is effectively no different than this:
There are no new laws against keeping any of God's commandments.

Regardless, the burden of proof is upon you to back up your claims. We're still waiting...
 

shnarkle

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All of God's commandments are equally valid, it is however in the fourth Commandment that he has his seal ie, the identifier of who the author of the Commandments is.

I agree, but then that's beside the point. No one is denying who gave the commandments.

I am persuaded that when the appointed time comes it will also be the identifier of those who have the Seal of God as stated in the book of Revelation as opposed to the mark of the beast who will insist on keeping the laws of men.

And yet Paul points out that if we're going to look to the law, selecting one law makes us a hypocrite if we're breaking any of the other laws.

From Romans 2:

And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?22 Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision....

Paul's comments are just as true if we substitute keeping the Sabbath for circumcision in verse 25.
 

shnarkle

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In the NT that regulates Christianity we have in Acts of the Apostles 20:7 "And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

This is a description. It is descriptive, not prescriptive.

--the verb "came together" is passive voice meaning coming together was not a capricious choice the disciples made up for themselves but were being directed by God to come together. So there is Divine appointment and authority to come together on the first day of every week.

And yet a divine appointment doesn't negate any of God's other divinely appointed laws. That would be the fallacy of the non sequitur. Paul also points out that they are to gather up funds for the saints in Jerusalem. How many Christians still carry on that injunction?

--the purpose of the coming together was to break bread which here is a reference to the Lord's Supper.

Nah, it's a common phrase referring to eating a meal together. We still use it today as well as words like "companion, companionship" etc. i.e. com- "with, pan- "bread".

Christians then are to meet on the first day of the week to take the Lord's Supper and since every week has a first day then it would be a meeting every week. In addition to taking the Lord's Supper every week they were commanded to "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come." (ESV) 1 Corinthians 16:2. (The word "every" is not in all English translations but it is in the original text.)

There's also Gal.2:10; Rom. 15:25,31 etc. How come Christians aren't gathering a collection for the saints in Jerusalem each and every week? It's an explicit injunction by Paul, and one that the churches all participated in "cheerfully".

The reason this is all happening on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath is because the Sabbath is a day of rest, worship, etc.
 
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GerhardEbersoehn

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Thanks for catching that. Here's the corrected version: I think this is where those who observe the 4th go wrong. We tend to set the 4th commandment up as the definitive mark while justifying our ignorance of the rest of God's laws, or blatantly disregarding specific laws.
This is only an elaborated false accusation from and for self-justification. All have gone wrong, have gone astray, everyone has gone his own way disregarding the whole Law of God, and not just <<where those observe the 4th>>.

But of infinite greater importance and meaning than sinners who got or did not get Sabbath observance right (or wrong), is what GOD regarding the specific Law of "the Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD" "WROUGHT", viz., "GOT RIGHT"! "GOD", namely, "AT-THE-POINT-OF-THE-EXCEEDING-GREATNESS—, AT-THE-POINT-OF-REST of his Mighty Power which He ENERGISED / WROUGHT / FINISHED / WORKED IN CHRIST RAISING HIM, FROM THE DEAD SETTING / RESTING / ENTHRONING HIM, AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND."

This, is God's definition of His Sabbath-Rest through JESUS CHRIST wherein man cannot have had or will have part, ever, unless as "a GIVEN in salvation by grace through faith".
 

shnarkle

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This is only an elaborated false accusation from and for self-justification.

You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. There is nothing in my post suggesting self-justification.

"AT-THE-POINT-OF-THE-EXCEEDING-GREATNESS—, AT-THE-POINT-OF-REST of his Mighty Power which He ENERGISED / WROUGHT / FINISHED / WORKED IN CHRIST RAISING HIM, FROM THE DEAD SETTING / RESTING / ENTHRONING HIM, AT HIS OWN RIGHT HAND."

Word salad.

This, is God's definition of His Sabbath-Rest through JESUS CHRIST wherein man cannot have had or will have part, ever, unless as "a GIVEN in salvation by grace through faith".

I doubt anyone would claim otherwise, but then it isn't an invitation to ignore any of God's commandments either.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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This is a description. It is descriptive, not prescriptive.

It is prescriptive when God is the one bringing Christians together.

And yet a divine appointment doesn't negate any of God's other divinely appointed laws. That would be the fallacy of the non sequitur. Paul also points out that they are to gather up funds for the saints in Jerusalem. How many Christians still carry on that injunction?[/quote]

How can one call himself a Christian if one does not 'come together' as Christians did in the first century to take the Lord's Supper? Acts 2:42 the first century Christians "continued.....in breaking of the bread" with the verb 'continued' showing an ongoing action. Luke 22:19 " ...this do (imperative) in remembrance of me..". Jesus commands His disciples to take the Lord's Supper and this is an example, a command that is to be followed, Philippians 4:9.


shnarkle said:
Nah, it's a common phrase referring to eating a meal together. We still use it today as well as words like "companion, companionship" etc. i.e. com- "with, pan- "bread".

Nothing says it was a common meal. The first century Christians were brought together by God to break the bread. The article "the" shows it was not just any bread but a particular bread.


shnarkle said:
There's also Gal.2:10; Rom. 15:25,31 etc. How come Christians aren't gathering a collection for the saints in Jerusalem each and every week? It's an explicit injunction by Paul, and one that the churches all participated in "cheerfully".

The reason this is all happening on the first day of the week instead of the Sabbath is because the Sabbath is a day of rest, worship, etc.

The church today does take collections up to help the poor just as they did in the first century. The church is required by God to help the poor. The particular incident you mention took place in Jerusalem, yet that does not mean all money is to go to Jerusalem. In the Bible the poor were helped in many places other than Jerusalem. What is incidental and what is required is not the same things. Where the money is given is not important but giving to the poor is what is necessary and essential. Many were baptized in Jerusalem (Acts 2:41) but that does not mean everyone has to be baptized in Jerusalem. Baptism is essential but the place of being baptized is incidental for the place one is baptized is unimportant and not part of the command to be baptized.

The reason it is the first day of the week is it is God that brings His disciples together on the first day of the week today as He did 2000 years ago.
 

shnarkle

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Where the money is given is not important

It was important enough for Paul to mention them by name which is more than can be said for your argument which shows no place where Sabbath observation was replaced by a Sunday observance. It's all pure conjecture and speculation on your part.

How can one call himself a Christian if one does not 'come together' as Christians did in the first century to take the Lord's Supper?

You mean as those same Christians who met on the first day of the week to hand over money collected for the saints specifically mentioned in Jerusalem? How can one call himself a Christian if they're no longer following Paul's reason for coming together in the first place?

There is no reason for an observant saved Jewish Christian to break their solemn vow to keep God's commandments just because he's meeting on the first day of the week to provide money for the poor to Paul. There's nowhere in any of Paul's writings, or in the Acts of the Apostles that indicates they stopped keeping any of God's feast days or the weekly Sabbath.

Your speculations don't trump those simple facts.
 

Ernest T. Bass

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It was important enough for Paul to mention them by name which is more than can be said for your argument which shows no place where Sabbath observation was replaced by a Sunday observance. It's all pure conjecture and speculation on your part.

Again, money was taken to the poor in other places than Jerusalem. The mention of Jerusalem was only incidental for the poor are required by God to be helped anywhere not just in Jerusalem.

When Jesus died on the cross He took all the OT law out of the way, nailing it to His cross thereby He did away with Sabbath keeping. No where in Christ's NT gospel are Christian required to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.


shnarkle said:
You mean as those same Christians who met on the first day of the week to hand over money collected for the saints specifically mentioned in Jerusalem? How can one call himself a Christian if they're no longer following Paul's reason for coming together in the first place?

God brought His disciples together on the first day of the week to break the bread (communion) and to take up a collection. There is no valid reason as to why Christians today should not do the same, (Philippians 4:9). The fact Jerusalem is mentioned is only incidental. We see the church spread out over a large area, there was a congregation in Ephesus, Corinth, Philippi, Rome, etc, etc so they came together in different places to take communion and give of their money. There is no indication at all in the Bible that ALL Christians went to Jerusalem every first day of the week to take communion and give of their money. You are trying to make an incidental a requirement.


shnarkle said:
There is no reason for an observant saved Jewish Christian to break their solemn vow to keep God's commandments just because he's meeting on the first day of the week to provide money for the poor to Paul. There's nowhere in any of Paul's writings, or in the Acts of the Apostles that indicates they stopped keeping any of God's feast days or the weekly Sabbath.

Your speculations don't trump those simple facts.

There is no indication at all the first century Christians remembered the Sabbath day. Again, the Sabbath was part of the OT law Christ did away with. In Romans 7:1-5 Paul condemned Christians for trying to keep both the OT law and NT Law at the same time, he compared that to the adulteress woman keeping two husbands at the same time. Paul uses the institution of marriage to make his point. One who is a Christian is married to Christ and His NT. Yet if he also tries to keep the law of Moses also he is committing spiritual adultery against Christ. That is when Christ died He took the OT law out of the way do we can be married to Him and HIs NT gospel....

": but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

That first husband (law of Moses) is dead (Christ took it out of the way on the cross) so we are freed from that law so we can be married to another man (Christ). So those who run back to Moses' law are committing adultery against Christ.
 

shnarkle

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The mention of Jerusalem was only incidental for the poor are required by God to be helped anywhere not just in Jerusalem.

We can make the same argument with regards to the day in which the money was collected, especially given that there is nothing to indicate that it necessarily follows that the Sabbath no longer need be observed just because they're collecting money together or observing the Lord's supper, or just sitting down to have a meal on the first day of the week. You haven't supplied any argument supporting this vague idea that the weekly Sabbath somehow foreshadowed, or looked to Christ's last supper of his resurrection.

When Jesus died on the cross He took all the OT law out of the way, nailing it to His cross thereby He did away with Sabbath keeping.

You just said "all the OT law", not just the Sabbath. Why are you cherry picking the Sabbath for special scrutiny? If all the law is gone, then we can just as easily claim that since we are now married to Christ, our previous marriages are no longer valid. We needn't concern ourselves with laws preventing theft due to the fact that everything was created by Christ and for Christ, and since we're in Christ it's all ours as well.

No where in Christ's NT gospel are Christian required to remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

Paul says those sins he mentioned were, "contrary to sound doctrine;according to the glorious gospel..."[I Timothy 1:10,11]


Hence these sins must not be found among Christians. Some are easily identified, but others need careful examination to discern the fault Paul is identifying. When this passage is fully understood,it will be seen that Paul is identifying persons who broke the ten commandments,up to commandment 9 and in the same order as they were given in Exodus 20.

THE LIST OF COMMANDMENT BREAKERS.
Lawless - Anomos(Gr.),without law,not having,knowing or acknowledging the law.Shows opposition to or contempt for the will of God.

Disobedient - Anupotaktos(Gr.),disobedient to authority(God's)

Ungodly - Asebes(Gr.),Godless,without fear or reverence to God,one who practises the opposite of what the fear of God demands.

Sinners - Hamartolos(Gr.),a heinous and habitual sinner.

The above persons do not recognize the true God and His laws but have gods of their own.They end up making images in honour of these gods and offer worship to them contrary to the commands of the true God.[See,Romans 1:18-25;Proverbs 16:27;Deuteronomy 13:13;II Corinthians 6:14-18;I Samuel 2:12;Galatians 4:8; N.B.,ungodly - sons of belial]

The persons above break commandments 1 & 2


Unholy - Anosios(Gr.),opposite of holy,profane.

Profane - Bebelos(Gr.),unhallowed,opposite of sacred,permitted to be trodden.

The above persons disregard or desecrate that which is holy.They take the Lord's name in vain and pollute the Sabbath.[See,Leviticus 18:21;19:12;Matthew 12:5;Nehemiah 13:17;Isaiah 58:13;56:6]

The persons above break commandments 3 & 4.


The rest are fairly straightforward and self-explanatory.


Murderers of fathers and - Dishonour parents by killing
murderers of mothers them.

The persons above break commandment 5.


Manslayers - Kill others.

The persons above break commandment 6.


Whoremongers etc. - Commit adultery and various sexual sins.

The persons above break commandment 7.


Men stealers - Steal or kidnap men.

The persons above break commandment 8.


Liars and perjured persons - These persons lie,bear false witness.

The persons above break commandment 9.


Any other thing contrary to sound doctrine would include commandment 10,which must be transgressed before any other sin is committed.[See,James 1:14,15;I Corinthians 10:6;Matthew 15:19]

Hence Paul clearly affirms that the breaking of the ten commandment law is a sin and describes those who disregard the Sabbath as unholy and profane.In this passage, Paul states plainly that it is contrary to sound Christian doctrine,contrary to the gospel,to be unholy and profane ie. to disregard the Sabbath.[I Timothy 1:10,11]

God brought His disciples together on the first day of the week to break the bread (communion) and to take up a collection. There is no valid reason as to why Christians today should not do the same,

Of course there is, and you just provided it yourself. There's no valid reason why they should profane any of God's commandments as that isn't required in order to keep Paul's instructions.

There is no indication at all the first century Christians remembered the Sabbath day.

News to me. I wasn't aware that Paul wasn't a first century Christian.

Again, the Sabbath was part of the OT law Christ did away with.

Again, where does it say that part of OT law was done away with?

In Romans 7:1-5 Paul condemned Christians for trying to keep both the OT law and NT Law at the same time,

No, in Romans 7:1-6 Paul tells the story of a woman who is "loosed from the law to her husband." He concludes his illustration by stating, "Now we are delivered from the law." Some people have used this story to say that Christians do not need to keep God’s law. But in fact, the story teaches the exact opposite.

In the illustration, Paul explains that "the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

"Wherefore," Paul concludes, "ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. "

To keep us from misunderstanding his point, Paul prefaced the story by declaring that "the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth." That is clear. Even in the illustration he affirms that "if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress." These facts show that Paul considered the commandments to be still binding.

Furthermore, notice that even the death of the husband does not change the law. Even after the man dies, the law still says the same thing it always said about remarriage. The law has not changed, only the woman’s relation to it. The woman is freed from the law, not because of any annulling of the law, but because there is no law against remarriage after a spouse’s death.

So it is with the one who has the power of Christ in his life. He is delivered from the law because he no longer violates the law. The law has not changed. It still requires just what it always did. But the Christian has changed. His life now exhibits the fruit of the Spirit: "Love, joy, peace,... against such there is no law"(Galatians 5:22, 23).

The problem of being "in the flesh" (Romans 7:5) lies in "the motions of sins" which are defined by the law. The problem is not the law, but sin (verses 7-13). Here is the point. We are "delivered from the law" when we become "dead to that wherein we were held" (verse 6, margin). Since it was sin which held us, only death to sin (Romans 6:2) can deliver us from the law. By experiencing such death to sin we are enabled to serve the law "in newness of the spirit" (Romans 7:6).
 

Ernest T. Bass

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We can make the same argument with regards to the day in which the money was collected, especially given that there is nothing to indicate that it necessarily follows that the Sabbath no longer need be observed just because they're collecting money together or observing the Lord's supper, or just sitting down to have a meal on the first day of the week. You haven't supplied any argument supporting this vague idea that the weekly Sabbath somehow foreshadowed, or looked to Christ's last supper of his resurrection.

Context clearly says first day of week. 1 Corinthians 16:2 is a commandment. Cannot carry out this commandment if not meeting on the first day of the week.


shnarkle said:
You just said "all the OT law", not just the Sabbath. Why are you cherry picking the Sabbath for special scrutiny? If all the law is gone, then we can just as easily claim that since we are now married to Christ, our previous marriages are no longer valid. We needn't concern ourselves with laws preventing theft due to the fact that everything was created by Christ and for Christ, and since we're in Christ it's all ours as well.

I have consistently posted Christ did away with ALL the law including the Sabbath keeping. Christians therefore do not keep the Sabbath but meet on the first day of the week. Colossians 2:13-17 Christ took all the OT law out of the way therefore "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days'


shnarkle said:
Paul says those sins he mentioned were, "contrary to sound doctrine;according to the glorious gospel..."[I Timothy 1:10,11]


Hence Paul clearly affirms that the breaking of the ten commandment law is a sin and describes those who disregard the Sabbath as unholy and profane.In this passage, Paul states plainly that it is contrary to sound Christian doctrine,contrary to the gospel,to be unholy and profane ie. to disregard the Sabbath.[I Timothy 1:10,11]

Christ took ALL the OT law out of the way including the 10 commandments. He replaced that OT law with His NT law. Christ's NT law repeats 9 of the 10 commandments. Nowhere does the NT command the Christian to keep the Sabbath day. Therefore stealing, lying, adultery, etc are wrong, not because the 10 commandments say so but because Christ's NT says so.


shnarkle said:
Of course there is, and you just provided it yourself. There's no valid reason why they should profane any of God's commandments as that isn't required in order to keep Paul's instructions.
Again, nowhere does the NT gospel require Sabbath keeping.

The OT law was a covenant God made only with fleshly Israel and no one else, Deuteronomy 5:1-4 also Exodus 31:12-15. Yet fleshly Israel was cast off (Romans 11) and that OT covenant ended meaning no more Sabbath keeping.



shnarkle said:
News to me. I wasn't aware that Paul wasn't a first century Christian.

Before his conversion to Christianity paul would have kept the Sabbath days. Paul as a Christian preached the gospel to the lost on Sabbath days but Paul as a Christian never kept the Sabbath day as a religious ordinance of God.


shnarkle said:
Again, where does it say that part of OT law was done away with?

Hebrews 10:9 Christ 'took away the first". It does not make any exceptions of Christ keeping the Sabbath day.


shnarkle said:
No, in Romans 7:1-6 Paul tells the story of a woman who is "loosed from the law to her husband." He concludes his illustration by stating, "Now we are delivered from the law." Some people have used this story to say that Christians do not need to keep God’s law. But in fact, the story teaches the exact opposite.

"delivered from the law"

shnarkle said:
In the illustration, Paul explains that "the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man."

"Wherefore," Paul concludes, "ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. "

To keep us from misunderstanding his point, Paul prefaced the story by declaring that "the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth." That is clear. Even in the illustration he affirms that "if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress." These facts show that Paul considered the commandments to be still binding.

Furthermore, notice that even the death of the husband does not change the law. Even after the man dies, the law still says the same thing it always said about remarriage. The law has not changed, only the woman’s relation to it. The woman is freed from the law, not because of any annulling of the law, but because there is no law against remarriage after a spouse’s death.

So it is with the one who has the power of Christ in his life. He is delivered from the law because he no longer violates the law. The law has not changed. It still requires just what it always did. But the Christian has changed. His life now exhibits the fruit of the Spirit: "Love, joy, peace,... against such there is no law"(Galatians 5:22, 23).

The problem of being "in the flesh" (Romans 7:5) lies in "the motions of sins" which are defined by the law. The problem is not the law, but sin (verses 7-13). Here is the point. We are "delivered from the law" when we become "dead to that wherein we were held" (verse 6, margin). Since it was sin which held us, only death to sin (Romans 6:2) can deliver us from the law. By experiencing such death to sin we are enabled to serve the law "in newness of the spirit" (Romans 7:6).

"For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God
."

In the broader context of Romans Paul shows the OT law could not justify. Romans 3 the Jews were given the OT law and it was an advantage for them to have that OT law but when it comes to justification the OT law could not justify. Why would one try and keep the OT law when it does not justify? There were Christians in Galatia lead away from the gospel back to the OT law by false Judaizing teachers. Paul's point to them is that the law cannot justify (Galatians 2:16). If the OT law could justify then Christ died in vain (Galatians 2:21). The OT law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ and we are no longer under that schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25). Paul shows in Galatians 5:3 for one to be justified by the OT law he must keep the whole law. One cannot go back to the OT law and pick out parts of it to keep, one must keep all of it perfectly to be justified.

There was also he problem with Jewish converts backsliding to the OT law again. The book of Hebrews warns them against this backsliding.

Therefore in Romans 7:1-6 Paul is telling them in order to be justified before Christ they have to leave the OT law that required perfect flawless law keeping in order to be justified.

Romans 6 Paul shows that because the Christian is saved by grace that does not give him the right to sin. Paul continues this argument into Romans 7.

Romans 7:1...a person is subject to the law as long as he liveth.

Romans 7:2 Just as a wife and husband are bound to each other as long as they live. Paul uses marriage as an example of death and life in how death frees one to enter into a new relationship.

Romans 7:3 But if a woman's husband lives and she marries another man she is an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is freed from the law to marry another.

Romans 7:4 Paul shows how this death and life in marriage relates to the OT law of Moses and Christ. We were made dead the the OT law of Moses by Christ for when Christ died He took that OT law out of the way. Christ freed us from the perfect flawless law keeping the OT law required so that we can be married-joined to Christ.

The analogy Paul is making is clear to see. Just as a woman cannot be married to two husbands at the same time, one cannot be joined to two different laws (OT and NT) at the same time.

Romans 7:5 we were freed from the OT law because the OT law brought forth fruit of death not fruit towards God because the OT law required flawless law keeping.

ROmans 7:6 we have been delivered from that OT law.

Paul says NOTHING at all in Romans 7 about the OT law still being in effect.
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Of course you did. Here's the context:
To which you responded with this:
Again, you simply made the claim without ever supporting it. We're still waiting.
In it's full context, this
is effectively no different than this:
Regardless, the burden of proof is upon you to back up your claims. We're still waiting...

Chiau
 

GerhardEbersoehn

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Context clearly says first day of week. 1 Corinthians 16:2 is a commandment. Cannot carry out this commandment if not meeting on the first day of the week.

<Context> in 1Corinthians 15 and 16 is no <commandment> but the announcement of an appeal made (or read) before the Congregation for "each one at his own home", to "reckon out" and "put aside to his ability" whatever for Paul to collect when he sometime future would come to collect and bring it to the poor in Jerusalem.

Paul made this announcement directly after his sermon (or sermon read out) before the congregation in Corinth, with a Demonstrative Pronominal phrase "REGARDING the First Day" which means he made his appeal BEFORE the First Day. And Paul's announcement was "regarding / concerning the collection" [peri tehs logeias] not concerning "every First Day of the week" [kata Mian sabbatou].

So one could not carry out this <commandment> if not "at home each one on his own every First Day of the week". And the announcement or appeal could not have been made except to the Congregation on the day BEFORE which was the Sabbath.

The days are over chum every Dick Tom and Harry can be theology's voice of falsehood drowning the voice of actual Scripture Truth.
 
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