Have you done the counting? Because I thought Jesus said "man shall live by EVERY WORD of God", written of course; and that is far more than 613 binding words in the OT already!
Keeping Sabbath not in effect
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Have you done the counting? Because I thought Jesus said "man shall live by EVERY WORD of God", written of course; and that is far more than 613 binding words in the OT already!
Just take the spotlight off the centre, then you can do what you like in the dark. If it <is easy as pie to "keep" the 4t commandment> for you, you mean to tell that it is impossible to 'keep' the Great One. Halleuiah! You spoke the truth! And THEREFORE, <<it matters not that you can keep "that one" .. BUT .. Do you ever get angry with a brother? Ever look at a woman with lust? Ever get angry enough to take the Lords name in vain, like as a curse word?>> BECAUSE that's the GREAT ONE, the Great Law to Love WHICH YOU NOR I NOR ANYONE CAN, <keep>! If one of 'THOSE' (of the Ten) <<is broken then they all are broken>> BECAUSE THEN THE GREAT ONE is broken. That is, BECAUSE, YOU, ARE "under THE LAW"-- under the Great Law - that YOU allege <<gentiles were never even invited to>>.
God's <<Spirit living inside us now in this age of grace", JUST LIKE in the Age of the Old Testament, "CAUSES us>>-- JUST LIKE the Patriarchs and Prophets--, <<to desire nothing more than to do His will, every time>>!
Therefore yes, <<It's sin that God hates, and will not tolerate, not laws in stone>> which after all He wrote "with the Finger of God" the Holy Spirit by whom God "drives out devils" and SIN He so hates, and always has hated.
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Neither do I know or pretend to know <<on what day of the week Paul wrote 1 Corinthian 16>> but what matters is on what day of the week his Letter was READ to the CONGREGATION before they after having on the Sabbath before, congregated, would have gone "home to on their own calculate and plan and put away every First Day of the week what they were able to", for "later collection" ... only what 1Corinthians EXPLICITLY, r-e-a-d-s! <<What matters is what (Paul) WROTE>> NOT <<commanded>>, which was NOT <<to assemble and give on the first day of the week>>, which is faked, and fraud nowhere in whatever way readable in 1Corinthians 15 to 16.
That is perfectly correct and consistent with the practice of Christians in the apostolic churches to meet for worship on the Lord's Day, in order to gather around the Lord's Table, for the Lord's Supper. The historical record also confirms this.
It is very significant that Paul waited for a whole week in Troas in order to assemble with the Christians ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK in order to *Break Bread* (partake of the Lord's Supper) and to preach to the church located there:
ACTS 20
5 These going before tarried for us at Troas.
6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.
7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Good catch @Enoch111 ! You caught yourself a beautiful porcupine which from whichever side you may try to handle, WILL PROVE the wrong side.
So, here is how to catch a porcupine. As is obvious it is impossible to approach the creature from here where we stand above its hole, those quills ready and you in aim. Now as luck would have it the porcupine might have an escape tunnel and outlet further down that steep precarious slope over there where you will have the enemy from above. No, maybe over there... or no, on this side nearer, but that's even steeper; or, kismet, nowhere! But if you can BLUFF the thing and wait until after sunset... it is nocturnal, it will come out when it is DARK. Then you must hold your net with this long handle, ready, like this, and catch the thing FROM BEHIND, because the porcupine does not negotiate, my friend!
If you are still interested, to be continued.
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Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
It does not matter what day 1 Cor epistle was written or read, it still commands Christians to meet upon the first day of the week.
"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store,......"
The verb 'lay' in the Greek is imperative mood, a command, not a mere suggestion.
I do not know where you get the idea this is "faked and fraud".
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Paul CONDEMNED those in Galatia for leaving the NT gospel and going to the OT law. Again, Paul clearly shows in Galatians 3:11-12 that the OT law cannot justify, that OT law as not of faith.
THe OT law required flawless law keeping to be justified yet those Jews under that law could not keep it perfectly hence Paul says "no man is justified by the law in the sight of God". Paul says the just shall live by faith yet Paul says the OT law as NOT OF FAITH. Why was the OT law not of faith? for, again, that OT law required flawless law keeping to be justified not faith. Under the OT law one could have all the faith in the world but the first time he sinned he was under curse of the law. So the OT law is not of faith but int hem that do them that is that OT law required doing the law perfectly.
Christ NT law is of faith therefore it does not require flawess law keeping to be saved but a simple obedient faith which means, even though the Christian is not perfect and sins, as long as the Christian repents (keeps walking in the light 1 John 1:7) then the blood of Christ continues to wash away all sins. They did not have the blood of Christ under the OT law to wash away all sins but only had the blood of bulls and goats that could not take away sins. Hence flawless law keeping was the only way under the OT law to be justified before God.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
I understand the Pharisees created their own traditions and Christ condemned those traditions.
The issue I am talking about is when Christ died He took ALL the OT law of Moses out of the way leaving it ineffective and no longer binding.
" He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second" Hebrews 10:9. He took away the first (OT law) so he may establish the second (NT law) for both laws cannot co-exist at the same time. So there was a change of the law Hebrews 7:12. Romans 7:1-5 Paul, using the institution of marriage, shows it is wrong for a Christian who is married to Christ's NT gospel to also keep the law of Moses. It would be as an adulteress woman keeping two husbands at the same time.
Colossians 2:14 Paul clearly shows Christ took the OT law out of the way nailing it to His cross. Therefore the OT law is no longer binding.
Colossians 2:15 Paul says Christ triumphed over the ruling Jews in Jerusalem. Those Jews claimed to keep the law, yet Jesus showed they were still still sinners. Christ exposed their hypocrisy and false traditions.
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day."
Paul continues the condemnation of things that were of the Jews. Meat, drink, feast days and the Sabbath day were all observances of the OT law. There were Jews trying to enforce these OT observances upon Christians and Paul is telling Christian not to let yourselves be judged by these things of the OT that are not binding upon you. The meat drink feast days and the Sabbath day of the OT law are just shadows of things to come, v17.
One last point, in Acts 10 when the gospel was taken to the Gentiles, since there was much animosity between Jew and Gentile God showed Peter a vision. God was showing the Jews that salvation was not just for Jews, but Gentiles also. In the vision God showed Peter (and the Jews) all food is now clean, with reference to the Gentiles now being 'clean'. It was the OT law of Moses that made distinction between meats and made a distinction between Jew and Gentile, a wall or partition separated Jew and Gentile under the law. But by God showing Peter (and the Jews) there was now no distinction in meats and no distinction between Jew and Gentile was God way of showing the Jews the OT law of Moses was gone since those distinction were of that OT law. The NT law is now in effect where all are one is Christ where there is no Jew or Gentile, no male or female, no bond or free.
Untrue. The verses before tell the "days superstitiously venerated / observed / watched / calculated" were the Galatians' "FORMER NO-GODS RETURNED BACK TO". It is correct though that Galatians 4:10 also applies to the Old Testament holy days HELD ONTO BY CHRISTIANS SO CALLED AS THOUGH THE DAYS WERE THEIR SAVIOUR INSTEAD OF JESUS CHRIST --- exactly what many Christians believe and practice TODAY. But that does not mean The Seventh Day Sabbath OF THE LORD GOD no longer is just it, "the day The Seventh Day Sabbath : OF THE LORD YOUR (the Christian's) GOD."
Sunday is pagan and heathen and most sophisticated SOPHISTRY of false Christianity alias the Antichrist; NO Scripture teach Sunday observance or sacredness. Clever men CORRUPT SCRIPTURE so as to make it appear as supporting the devil's idea that Sunday was venerated by the Apostolic Church. It is just not true; it is a satanic, demonic, LIE.
And I am completely with you, but go infinitely farther, and believe this as all Scripture cf. Luke 24:26,27,32,44,45,46 has "the CHRIST, crucified and nailed to the cross and taken out of the way". So the Risen Lord Jesus Christ was God's LAW, "THIS JESUS WHOM YE CRUCIFIED, GOD RAISED LORD AND CHRIST" -- THE LAW-KING, REX LEX. "The Lord .. Living Stone disallowed indeed of men but Chosen of God .. to Whom ye as lively stones coming, are built up a spiritual House", the Church of the obedient to the Law of God, Christ Jesus.
Truth
Well-Known Member
Well if Paul condemned the feast's why does he make a point in going to Jerusalem ? Acts 18:20-21 When they asked Him to stay a longer time with them, He did not consent! 21- but took leave of them, Saying, I must by all means Keep this coming Feast in Jerusalem;
1st Corinthians 5:8 - Therefore let Us Keep the Feast, not with old Leaven, nor with the Leaven of Malice and wickedness, But with the unleavened bread of sincerity and Truth
Colossians 2:16 -17- So let no one Judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival [ Feast ] or a new moon or Sabbath's [ Plural ]
18 - Which Are a Shadow of thing's to Come. 18 is the concluding statement from verse 17!!! Context my friend Context.
As I stated before Paul was instructing Gentile's that had come to the Faith, So He was telling them not to let those that were still doing the stuff that is in Verse 19, worshiping angel's, false deities, puffed up in their own imagination's.
And as far as Peter's Vision, it had nothing to do with food's, Peter expresses the very reason He received the Vision, Not to call any Man Unclean, and when He reaches Cornelius's household, Acts 10:28 - Then He said to them, you know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another Nation. But GOD has shown me that I should Not Call Any Man Common or Unclean! Peter never responds any word about food, everything Peter saw in that Vision was for Him to understand unclean!
These thing happened about 2000 years ago, to a people with a culture that you have no understanding about, that is the problem with the Faith today. We are thousands of mile's from Israel and 2000 years removed from the Culture of that time.
Here is how... First assert <<1 Cor epistle .. commands Christians to meet upon the first day of the week.>> Mark: <to meet>; it is <the verb> according to you; but it is nowhere in the context chapter 16:1,2.
WHAT NOW?
Here is what to do next, sommer grab <<the verb 'lay' in the Greek (it) is imperative mood, a command, not a mere suggestion>>, so just make <<the verb 'lay' in the Greek>> the <<imperative .. command>> giving <the verb> according to you the meaning, <<to meet>>.
That's how one sommer gets the Verb and meaning one wants, at once. Very clever!
Now I call such cleverness by its real name--, fake and fraud.
And ever since, <<1 Cor epistle .. still commands Christians to meet / lay upon the first day of the week.>>
I warned you, porcupines don't negotiate!
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For those here determined to justify at all costs the keeping of their tradition, your post here sounds amply authoritative and biblically sound. But in reality, as has been shown many times over countless threads, it is superficial, presumptuous, shallow, and wholly dependant on the readers being unwilling to investigate deeper and learn truth.
What gives you the idea that the 'rulers' Christ triumphed over were <ruling in Jerusalem> or that they were <Jews>? Colossians is about the Church and the heathen world it found itself in. Paul doesn't write a word in Colossians about <<the ruling Jews in Jerusalem>>. You have gone off topic regarding the Letter to the Colossian Christians, Church or Letter.
In defence of Scripture Truth of itself, will be AGAINST Seventh day Adventism as it is against Sunday sacredness belief.
On the contrary, Paul encourages the Church: "NOT to let themselves be judged (of the world) with regard to their eating and drinking of Sabbaths' Feast OF CHRIST THE SUBSTANCE and Nourishment ministered, and to NOT let themselves be swindled out of their REWARD WHICH IS CHRIST THE HEAD and let go holding onto Him." THIS is the ESSENCE and the TRUTH of Colossians 2:12-19 -- not the caricature in verbosity which the SDA and Catholic Christianity have made of this divine Scripture!
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This is why Luther rejected the Letter to the Hebrew believers…
If “God raised Christ” not from the dead,
1) “He by the Son in these last days (has not) spoken”,
2) “Jesus gave them (no) Rest”, and
3) “a Sabbath Day-of-rest for the People of God (would not have) remained”, and
4) “God of another day” than “He thus concerning the Seventh Day spake .. would have spoken”—
…which Luther feigned would be Sunday.
If “God raised Christ” not from the dead,
1) “He by the Son in these last days (has not) spoken”,
2) “Jesus gave them (no) Rest”, and
3) “a Sabbath Day-of-rest for the People of God (would not have) remained”, and
4) “God of another day” than “He thus concerning the Seventh Day spake .. would have spoken”—
…which Luther feigned would be Sunday.
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Came Jesus not in the flesh, came He not in time;
Suffered Jesus not in life, triumphed He not in death;
Raised God Him not Lord and Christ, the last enemy still reigned;
Rose Christ not in body, rose He not in spirit;
Rose Christ not from his grave, ascended He not His Throne;
Rose Christ not the Lord, rose He not the Lord’s Day—
and God on the Sabbath of the LORD rested nor revived.
Suffered Jesus not in life, triumphed He not in death;
Raised God Him not Lord and Christ, the last enemy still reigned;
Rose Christ not in body, rose He not in spirit;
Rose Christ not from his grave, ascended He not His Throne;
Rose Christ not the Lord, rose He not the Lord’s Day—
and God on the Sabbath of the LORD rested nor revived.
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