Kenosis False Teaching
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as a man yes as God He knew all things.
I guess your Godhead is divided eh ?
According to your verse you are ripping out of the entire context of the bible in Matt 24:36 the Holy Spirit doesn't know when the Son returns.
See how absurd your conclusion makes the Godhead, the Trinity ?
What this tells me is you have a flawed understanding of the Trinity and the 2 Natures in Christ.
hope this helps !!!
101G
Well-Known Member
first thanks for the reply. second, I'll try to use less scriptures as i can... (smile).
ANSWER: that want work, as to the Nature of God. and here's why,
Romans 12:5 "So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another."
well God is not Many not even TWO, but ONLY ONE, which is the Equal of his OWNself. I liked the way you asked that because it shows the Diversity of the Spirit, God,... "SHARED", his OWN arm in flesh. BINGO.
see my friend, the difference is he, God Jesus is the "ANOTHER" (G243), or the EQUAL SHARE of his OWNSELF in flesh. we're not. weas a body is a collective of, of, of, ONE, but not ONE individual.
so right off the bat that want work with God.... but thanks for the question, which should open more eyes.
now as for John 17, what he was before... I AM, Spirit is inherited of the NEW and GLORIFIED Body.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
PS I made the font larger for you edifying in Reading.
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101G
Well-Known Member
lets get something stright here and NOW. the only person in the Godhead is the HOLY SPIRIT. and he, the Holy Spirit, Jesus diversified, or shared himself "equally in Flesh hence the term Son, and this is not biological, but Spiritual.
now knowing this, the key to "diversified Oneness" is SHARE, and EQUAL vs SEPERATED, and DISTINCT. that's it plain and simple.
this equation is in the bible, and it eliminates the elephant in the room which none of the there preson can answer.
now if one want to speak truth, then the plurality, or the Diversity of God as the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself answer all the Question concering Genesis 1:26, John 1:! and Matthew 3:17 concering the voice from heaven.....
any other doctrine will be eliminated. the floor and choice is yours.....
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
now knowing this, the key to "diversified Oneness" is SHARE, and EQUAL vs SEPERATED, and DISTINCT. that's it plain and simple.
this equation is in the bible, and it eliminates the elephant in the room which none of the there preson can answer.
now if one want to speak truth, then the plurality, or the Diversity of God as the EQUAL "SHARE" of himself answer all the Question concering Genesis 1:26, John 1:! and Matthew 3:17 concering the voice from heaven.....
any other doctrine will be eliminated. the floor and choice is yours.....
Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.
PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
Nonsense. You go way beyond what this conversation is about.
My view allows these verses to be true, and yours does not. If you don't want to accept the truthfulness of Jesus' statement because it conflicts with your view, that's your issue to solve. And that's why I raise it. For your benefit.
In your view, Jesus didn't really empty Himself of anything. His reputation? I realize that's the KJV translation, but think about what that would mean to His "human experience", and the ramifications on our life lived in Him? If He has functioning as deity, how does He become our High Priest?
Jesus lived His life as a man, dependant upon the Father as are men.
You may have equal difficulty answering this. Why did Jesus call the Father "His God"?
Much love!
Nonsense is Right !
For the Son to not have any one of the Divine Attributes by default makes Him not God.
Would the Father is He was not Omniscient still be God ?
My guess is you also deny the Creeds of Christendom concerning the Trinity and the Person of Christ correct ?
Do you affirm them ?
The Nicene Creed
The Chalcedonian Creed
The Athanasian Creed
Meaning what exactly? That when He said He didn't knew when His return would be, that He was lying? Because unless He knew everything He wasn't God? Or do you mean He was pretending to not know, even though He did know? Disengenuous?
By default how? What makes this a hard and fast rule, particularly since the Bible shows a very different picture. Jesus is reliant on the Father. Jesus does not do His Own will, His Own works, His Own teaching.
Jesus, incarnate in flesh, between His birth and death, was omnipresent?
Why was it that Jesus "could not" do many miracles in Nazareth? Not, "would not", but, "could not"? Does this show omnipotence?
There is a real beauty in that Jesus emptied Himself. He showed the life that we can live. He showed us what God has in mind for us.
Much love!
While Jesus was a man walking this earth He was also in heaven, hence Omnipresent.
John 3:13
No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.
You've established that Jesus had both terrestrial and celestial presence, but so do we. For your life is hid with Christ is God. He has raised us up together and seated us tother in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus.
This does not establish omnipresence.
Much love!
You keep saying this, again, by default how? What makes this some hard and fast rule?
And . . . Did Jesus know when He was returning, at the time He said He didn't? What He being accurate or not?
Much love!
If you want to find my thoughts on a creed quote it please.
But I'm more interested in discussing Scripture.
Jesus lived the life that a man lives, not retaining His omnipotence, not retaining His omniscience, He was dependant of the Father for a completely victorious life.
He came to trade His life for ours. The life He gives to us is not deity. The life Jesus gives to us is that of the man who walks dependent on God, doing His will. So then we can live this life where we, without the perogatives of deity, can live victoriously.
Declaring that Jesus lived by His Own divine powers removes His life out of our reach, as we don't have those powers.
Rather, He came to lay the foundation for OUR lives built into God's temple.
We live just like He did. Dependant, faithful.
Much love!
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The Athanasian Creed- 500 ad
This creed is named after Athanasius (A.D. 293-373), the champion of orthodoxy against Arian attacks on the doctrine of the trinity. Although Athanasius did not write this creed and it is improperly named after him, the name persists because until the seventeenth century it was commonly ascribed to him. It is not from Greek (Eastern), but from Latin (Western) origin, and is not recognized by the Eastern Orthodox Church today. Apart from the opening and closing sentences, this creed consists of two parts, the first setting forth the orthodox doctrine of the trinity, and the second dealing chiefly with the incarnation and the two-natures doctrine. The translation above was adopted by the CRC Synod of 1988.
Whoever desires to be saved should above all hold to the catholic faith.
Anyone who does not keep it whole and unbroken will doubtless perish eternally.
Now this is the catholic faith:
That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity,
neither blending their persons
nor dividing their essence.
For the person of the Father is a distinct person,
the person of the Son is another,
and that of the Holy Spirit still another.
But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one,
their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.
What quality the Father has, the Son has, and the Holy Spirit has.
The Father is uncreated,
the Son is uncreated,
the Holy Spirit is uncreated.
The Father is immeasurable,
the Son is immeasurable,
the Holy Spirit is immeasurable.
The Father is eternal,
the Son is eternal,
the Holy Spirit is eternal.
And yet there are not three eternal beings;
there is but one eternal being.
So too there are not three uncreated or immeasurable beings;
there is but one uncreated and immeasurable being.
Similarly, the Father is almighty,
the Son is almighty,
the Holy Spirit is almighty.
Yet there are not three almighty beings;
there is but one almighty being.
Thus the Father is God,
the Son is God,
the Holy Spirit is God.
Yet there are not three gods;
there is but one God.
Thus the Father is Lord,
the Son is Lord,
the Holy Spirit is Lord.
Yet there are not three lords;
there is but one Lord.
Just as Christian truth compels us
to confess each person individually
as both God and Lord,
so catholic religion forbids us
to say that there are three gods or lords.
The Father was neither made nor created nor begotten from anyone.
The Son was neither made nor created;
he was begotten from the Father alone.
The Holy Spirit was neither made nor created nor begotten;
he proceeds from the Father and the Son.
Accordingly there is one Father, not three fathers;
there is one Son, not three sons;
there is one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
Nothing in this trinity is before or after,
nothing is greater or smaller;
in their entirety the three persons
are coeternal and coequal with each other.
So in everything, as was said earlier,
we must worship their trinity in their unity
and their unity in their trinity.
Anyone then who desires to be saved
should think thus about the trinity.
But it is necessary for eternal salvation
that one also believe in the incarnation
of our Lord Jesus Christ faithfully.
Now this is the true faith:
That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God's Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.
Although he is God and human,
yet Christ is not two, but one.
He is one, however,
not by his divinity being turned into flesh,
but by God's taking humanity to himself.
He is one,
certainly not by the blending of his essence,
but by the unity of his person.
For just as one human is both rational soul and flesh,
so too the one Christ is both God and human.
He suffered for our salvation;
he descended to hell;
he arose from the dead;
he ascended to heaven;
he is seated at the Father's right hand;
from there he will come to judge the living and the dead.
At his coming all people will arise bodily
and give an accounting of their own deeds.
Those who have done good will enter eternal life,
and those who have done evil will enter eternal fire.
This is the catholic faith:
one cannot be saved without believing it firmly and faithfully.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
It's the such an hour as ye think not...
Who is that faithful and wise servant (singular)
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
But of that day and hour knoweth no man or angel, only the Father knows..
Is it that you'll find out when your days are up?
Is it for the individual.. between the life and death..
yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
Heaven and earth.. soul and body.. shall pass away, but my words.. eternal life or condemnation shall not pass away.. promise.
For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgement...
Who is that faithful and wise servant...
Is this a global issue or an individual issue???
thinking..
hugs
Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
It's the such an hour as ye think not...
Who is that faithful and wise servant (singular)
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
But of that day and hour knoweth no man or angel, only the Father knows..
Is it that you'll find out when your days are up?
Is it for the individual.. between the life and death..
yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.
Heaven and earth.. soul and body.. shall pass away, but my words.. eternal life or condemnation shall not pass away.. promise.
For it is appointed unto man once to die, and after this the judgement...
Who is that faithful and wise servant...
Is this a global issue or an individual issue???
thinking..
hugs
This creed doesn't touch on the topic of this thread.
And btw . . . All who call upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved. God doesn't really complicate the issue.
Much love!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think the thing that bothers me the most with this creed is,
you have to attribute all these to what they call catholic or universal faith.
I don't really have any issues with what the creed says..
I have a problem who is claimin authority over it..
I hope that makes sense..
jugs
Its not the catholic church as in the RCC but the universal church of believers everywhere.
Is sure does as it say Jesus is EQUAL to the Father in His Divinity.
Maybe you can read it more carefully.
next....................
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