dad
Well-Known Member
And..? The other poster was suggesting He is here hiding. What are you trying to say?
Last day prophecies fulfilled
- Thread starter Robert Gwin
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Of course not, they are of their father the devil. They are working for evil. Yes, Christ does rule over the nations throughout the earth. Because He rules and reigns over His people who are scattered throughout the nations of the earth.
In this world there are both those who are ruled by evil and those who are ruled by Christ. This will always be true until time shall be no more. There will never be peace on this earth! There will always be battling between the forces of good and the forces of evil as long as this earth remains. How do you think Christ rules over His people from heaven, that are scattered throughout the kingdoms of this earth? Every human is being ruled either by good or by evil. Saying Christ rules over the kingdoms of this earth does not mean that He rules over every human in every kingdom of the earth. He rules over His own. That's why His own become servants to Him, serving Him night and day from wherever they are found on the earth.
Isn't this contradiction of your own doctrine? If there are rebels during this one thousand years, trying to rebel against Christ what is their purpose? They cannot deceive those who are already in the Kingdom of God forever. They will not be saved and enter the Kingdom of God themselves, because the Kingdom is COMPLETE when Christ returns the second time. Once all who shall be saved have come into His Kingdom, the door is shut, and no more will be allowed to enter.
Every human is either in the kingdom of darkness and death, ruled by evil, or they are in the Kingdom of God, ruled by good.
The people of Christ do not have to control the nations of this world to be ruled over by Christ.
I'm not questioning God! I'm questioning you and pointing out the errors found in your doctrine. Is the earth inhabited by rebels during this supposed one thousand years, or not? I know the purpose for Satan's little season after the seventh angel begins to sound that time on this earth shall be no longer. Satan is loosed to gather Gog and Magog (antichrists & antichristians), the saints are caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and fire from God comes down from heaven to utterly burn up this earth and all who are still on it. Then the new heaven and new earth will come down and the saints will dwell with Christ on the new earth forever.
Yes, Christ NOW rules over the kingdoms of this world. Because His people of faith are in the kingdoms of this world, and Christ rules over them (His people) with the rod of iron. You are under this misguided belief that if Christ does not rule over every human of this earth, He cannot be reigning and ruling over His own people. Christ gives power over the nations all who overcome evil and keep His works unto the end. And He rules THEM (His people) with a rod of iron. In the hands of the Potter His own people shall be broken, just as Christ served the Father through obedience to the cross.
Revelation 2:26-27 (KJV) And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
It is by His Word, that is the Gospel, that proceeds from the mouth that He smites the nations of this earth. The Gospel is the sharp two-edged sword that smites unto life or unto death.
Revelation 19:14-16 (KJV) And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Ephesians 6:17 (KJV) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Hebrews 4:11-13 (KJV) Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Who are those who overcome evil and keep His works unto the end?
1 John 5:4 (KJV) For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5 (KJV) Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Revelation 2:11 (KJV) He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
1 John 2:13-14 (KJV) I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1 John 4:4-6 (KJV) Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
I think we are misunderstanding each other Rw, I gather you don't think there will be 2 1000 yr periods, and neither do I sir. Let me expound a bit, we believe Jesus was enthroned as King over a century ago, and that ushered us into the last days of this world Mat 24:3. We are very near the end of that generation that would not perish prior to his return Mat 24:34. Soon this tribulation will start and when we near the point of extinction, because of the remainder of the elect/saints/bride Jesus will return to save them v22. We believe this starts the battle of Armageddon in which all except Christians will be destroyed, but satan and the demons will be cast into an abyss for 1000 yrs Rev 20:3. Now the Kingdom has came Mat 6:10 thus the start of the millennial reign of Christ, but the Kingdom is not complete until he presents it to his God and father at the end of that millennium 1 Cor 15:24-28. That is when the Kingdom is complete, and has returned all things back to the point it was prior to Adam's sinning. Sin is finished off at that point Rw.
I agree Heart, although I hadn't kept abreast of that prophecy and thought those waters might be rebounding a bit, but I googled it, and found that those waters are still drying up. Thanks for posting that Heart.
I guess you do not understand the difference between his presence and return Be. Jesus began his presence Mat 24:3 at the end of the appointed times of the nations and gave signs for his disciples to know that had happened. This would usher in a last day period that would end with his return that would happen before the end of the generation that beheld the start of his presence. Verse 34.
All do not discern that he began his presence, but all will know when he returns as this will affect every living human. 1 Thes 4:17; 2 Thes 1:6-9
I appreciate your reply Robert. Trying to shorten our replies I hope you don't mind my focusing on only one part of your reply. My focus is on the words of John that I believe are the crux of the differences regarding this time John writes as "a/the thousand years".
I don't believe it's misunderstanding Robert, but rather a difference of opinion about what "a thousand years" is. You view a thousand years as ONE thousand years of time that will be given to this earth once Christ returns the second time. I view a thousand years as equating to TIME. Time given the Church to proclaim the Gospel unto all the Gentile nations of the earth, the same time that Satan is bound until the seventh angels begins to sound that this specific time shall be no longer. After this specific time is finished, Satan is loosed for his "little season" that shall end with faithful saints called up to meet the Lord in the air, and fire from God coming down from heaven to utterly burn up whosoever, and whatsoever is left alive upon this earth.
Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
This time given for building the Kingdom of God while Satan is bound ends because the mystery of God that had been hidden in past ages has become known through the advent of Christ's cross, and resurrection and the sending out of the Gospel unto all the world. The mystery was that Gentiles would complete the Kingdom of God as the Gospel is sent out to all the nations of the earth. According to Paul "all Israel that shall be saved" is accomplished when the fulness of the Gentiles are grafted into the good olive tree of faith with Jews of faith. We can discuss the ethnic make-up for who "all Israel" includes, but for now I would like to focus on the mystery that had been hidden in past ages is that Gentiles of would complete the Kingdom of God and like faithful Jews have eternal life in Christ.
Romans 11:25-26 (KJV) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 16:25-26 (KJV) Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Ephesians 3:3-6 (KJV) How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
Ephesians 3:8 (KJV) Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Ephesians 3:9 (KJV) And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Colossians 1:26-27 (KJV) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
There's much more to discuss regarding a thousand years. I've partially shown why I believe a thousand years equates to time that began with the first advent of Christ and will end when the seventh angel begins to sound that there should be time no longer. If you can show why you believe what I've written is in error, I will be happy to discuss it. I believe I've given enough proof from Scripture to show why a thousand years in not ONE thousand years that shall come, but equates to TIME on this earth that goes from Christ to the end of time.
dad
Well-Known Member
His people do not rule the world, not God through them right now. On the contrary. We are told that the kingdoms of this world are become God's kingdom after the Tribulation.
However people are ruled in themselves does not change who rules this present world. The prince of this world does. That is what the bible says. Satan even tried to tempt Jesus by offering Him all the kingdoms to rule. Jesus said no. He will rule here in God's time when He returns.
What is anyone's purpose? To choose. Some choose to hate God. So there are people who choose noow. There will be also people who choose in the tribulation and will be saved. The same is true in the millennium. After that, it seems to be a done deal, and the judgment comes, solidifying our choices.
No. Sorry. However complete you think it is now, or in the tribulation, there are still people who will be saved and also who will rebel. The kingdom of God is open to all who will receive Jesus.
No. Saved people today are in this wicked world. WE know the whole world lies in wickedness! Did you think His kingdom was wicked??
Great. So they live in a wicked world meanwhile, until we are saved physically from it. We are saved spiritually now.
In the end of that period there are rebels the bible tells us. They will not be able to do anything because Jesus will rule here and not allow it. However, He knows the hearts, and will release Satan to gather those rebels together in the very end of the 1000 years to be destroyed and removed forever from the earth.
You are conflating time periods. The angels sound in the tribulation before the millennium even begins.
Again, you are confusing periods. Any fire Jesus uses in destroying our enemies when he returns to earth is localized. Directed at the wicked. The fire after the millennium destroys the (at least the surface of) the earth itself. No one survives that. The only ones left here after the wicked led by Satan are allowed to gather and surround the camp of millennial saints are those wicked rebels. Jesus saves the saints of that time just as He did those who were raptured before the tribulation, and thoose He saved when He returned to earth after the tribulation.
His people do not rule the kingdoms of this world now. Even if they allow Him to rule them. I notice that some seem to allow God to work in them more than others.
When He rules there will be no abortion. There will be no gender confusion. There will be Scripture in all schools and homes. There will be peace on earth and plenty and no poor. Etc. I am not the misguided one.
No. He created the universe by His word and that was long before the gospel existed. He is all mighty. All powerful. When He speaks, universes can form or vanish. He will smite the enemies and kill them. The gospel is to bring life and salvation and good news. His judgment will bring death to the wicked.
All who believe in Jesus! That is the victory that over the world. Now. In the Tribulation, and in the millennium. World without end. Amen.
Dad, I have no intention of repeating myself ad nauseum because you seem to lack comprehension ability. So, I refer you back to my reply #202 because it is clear from this reply that you either intentionally ignore what I've said there, or as I say, you lack ability to comprehend what I've written.
dad
Well-Known Member
It was comprehended that you spam verses unrelated to any topic discussed and that you push wacky ideas that are not biblical.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Not on Mars. Right here on earth.
When John writes the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished, he is not saying the physical resurrection of the rest of the dead is the first resurrection. Why? Because he has already told us who have lived and reigned with Christ and who shall live with Christ for a thousand years. They are "the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." And they "shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
Revelation 20:5-6 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Since you have said regarding these one thousand years, "In the end of that period there are rebels the bible tells us. They will not be able to do anything because Jesus will rule here and not allow it." Why does John write of martyred saints living, reigning, and dying during a thousand years? Not only does John write of those who have LIVED (past tense) and REIGNED (past tense) with Christ a thousand years, John also writes of others who SHALL BE (future tense) priests of God and Christ and SHALL REIGN (future tense) with Christ during the thousand years of which you believe is ONE thousand physical years after the second coming of Christ. How can any be martyred during this time of ONE thousand years since Christ will not allow it? And how can both those who have lived and reigned with Christ and those who shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him all live with Christ during the same ONE thousand years? How many one thousand-year periods of time do you believe there will be?
John cannot be telling us that the rest of the dead who are resurrected to life again after the thousand years were finished is the first resurrection. How could he be since he says some have already lived and reigned and died during a thousand years, and that others shall reign with Christ in this same time of a thousand years, but also be telling us the rest of the dead will be of the first resurrection, but won't be resurrected until AFTER a thousand years were finished.
How do I know John is not saying the rest of the dead who live not again until the thousand years were finished is not the first physical resurrection that will be followed by another physical resurrection one thousand years later? Because John says they are the rest of the dead, not those who have lived and reigned or shall live and reign with Christ a thousand years. To live and reign with Christ a thousand years is for those who have part in the first resurrection and those who are blessed and holy. That is NOT the fate of the rest of the dead. John shows us what becomes of "the dead" when they are resurrected to stand before God at the GWTJ to give account from what is written in the books and the book of life. John writes these books are examined to see what is written in them. John does not say the book of life is opened to see whose name is written there, but to see whose name is NOT written there.
Revelation 20:11-12 (KJV) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Revelation 20:12-13 (KJV) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Revelation 20:14-15 (KJV) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
The GWTJ proves the rest of the dead who do not live again until the thousand years are finished are not a physical first resurrection do not live and reign with Christ and are not among those called holy and blessed and clearly have not overcome the second death.
dad
Well-Known Member
Who could this NOT be? The ones raptured. We will rule and reign on earth with Him for 1000 years. There is no use trying to dissect who all the other people who will be raised in the final judgment are with you.
Because they are raised and so also rule with us?
If we are talking about, say people who are resurrected in the Rapture, who go on to rule with Him, we would say, they lived and reigned with Him. If we say that before they arise from the dead it is actually future tense.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. That is still future. When telling what will happen we say they lived and reigned after that with Him for the millennium.
From any time before the 1000 years starts we say they shall rule with Him.
So the rest of what dead? Who all is dead after Jesus comes? Not we who were Raptured. (notice I use the past tense for a future event?) One group of people we know will be raised in the end are the wicked of all ages. You see Jesus has already returned and cast Satan into the pit by the time the rest of the dead are mentioned! So it will not be believers. Now what if some die in the 1000 years (a man will be considered a child if he dies at 100 years old). I assume they will be raised to everlasting life after the millennium if they were believers.
Again knowing who these are would help. They are not Christians, the Bride of Christ. Nor believers from the tribulation.
The rest of the dead, then are NOT us. So?
RR144
Well-Known Member
He's not hiding if you know where He is! The signs are out there. The Disciples asked Jesus:
"And when he is sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples came near to him by himself, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3, Young's Literal Translation)
The signs are there, read Matthew 24 and tell me if we're not living during our Lord's presence!
dad
Well-Known Member
RR144
Well-Known Member
dad
Well-Known Member
He said He would come again and receive us unto Him, to be where He is. The angels also told the apostles when He rose up to heaven that He would return again.
Also here -
Zechariah 14:4
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
RR144
Well-Known Member
His PRESENCE is His RETURN.
Hmmm ... So Jesus returns twice? Or is His return in two parts, a Presence and a Coming? Please explain.
RR144
Well-Known Member
Hmm ... when you isolate a verse, you can make it say anything. How about the 15th verse?
Zech. 14:5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
dad
Well-Known Member
When the saints are raptured, it is up to meet the Lord in the air. If John is speaking of the rapture, he would not say he would not say they have lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Do you really believe raptured saints will hang out in the air for one thousand years after Christ has come the second time?
So "the rest of the dead" who will stand before God to be judged are resurrected to live again for one thousand years to rule over who exactly? Then after the thousand years they stand before God at the GWT and are then cast into the lake of fire? Hmmm, sounds a little like the wolf guarding the chicken coop???
John writes of martyred (physically dead) souls, whom he sees alive in heaven after death, who have LIVED and REIGNED in TIME, that John likens to a thousand years. Then he writes there are others also who SHALL reign with Christ in TIME he again likens to a thousand years. The reason John writes ALL saints, not matter when they have lived or shall live will be with Christ for the same thousand-year period of time is because John speaks of all time from the first advent to Christ's second coming as a thousand years. John cannot give a definitive time of exactly ONE thousand years, because no one knows the exact length of time that will pass from the beginning of this Messianic age of time, until the seventh angel begins to sound that this TIME shall be no longer.
John writes of two types of people living in time (a thousand years) upon this earth. They are those who have lived and died in time or shall live and die in time, who are counted as having part in the first resurrection, which is the resurrection of Christ from the dead. All who live and die in TIME having part in Christ's resurrection by being made spiritually live or born again from above.
Then John writes of the fate of "the rest of the dead" or simply "the dead" who have not and shall not live and reign with Christ in time, because in time (a thousand years) they never have part in the first resurrection, never were born again by having part in the resurrection life of Christ. The dead also lived in this time but without having part in the first resurrection they are never blessed and holy, and never overcome the second death. To live and die without partaking of the first resurrection through Christ, is to live spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. If in time likened to a thousand years man is not quickened (made alive) by the Holy Spirit in them, they are "the rest of the dead".
All mankind is physically born, spiritually dead. We ALL who are dead in trespasses and sins must in time be quickened or made alive by the Spirit in us to go from being dead in our trespasses and sins to being made alive in Christ, who is the first resurrection, or we will never live and reign with Christ in time, likened to a thousand years.
Ephesians 2:1 (KJV) And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:4-7 (KJV) But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Paul here describes how man must be made alive together with Christ going from being spiritually dead in trespasses and sins while physically alive. Man MUST partake of Christ who is the resurrection and the life in TIME, likened to a thousand years to have eternal life through Him.
John 11:25-26 (KJV) Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
The rest of the dead are the same dead called to stand before God to be judged by what is found written in the books, and what is NOT found (their names) written in the book of life.
Revelation 20:15 (KJV) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
That's a pretty cavalier attitude for one professing to be of Christ to express!
Hi Rw, the good news of the Kingdom has been preached for nearly 2 millenniums sir, and according to Mat 24:14 that would be the culmination of the world at it's completion, thus moving God to send the Kingdom. That is when satan will be removed from the earth and bound for the next thousand years. Right now he and the demons still freely roam the earth, and the Kingdom has not came sir.
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