Last day prophecies fulfilled

[rwb]

OK so what would you like support for? Pick something. Hopefully quasi topical.

How about proving what you allege? He who alleges MUST prove! Otherwise, all we have from you is unbiblical opinion!

 

[dad]

How about proving what you allege? He who alleges MUST prove! Otherwise, all we have from you is unbiblical opinion!

Name something you think I allege that is on topic?

 

[rwb]

Name something you think I allege that is on topic?

In our discussion here you've offered commentary from others, and your opinion. When I discuss the Bible, I expect no more from others than I do myself. He who alleges must prove through the Scripture the opinion they hold is biblical. Otherwise, it remains unbiblical opinion.

 

[dad]

In our discussion here you've offered commentary from others, and your opinion. When I discuss the Bible, I expect no more from others than I do myself. He who alleges must prove through the Scripture the opinion they hold is biblical. Otherwise, it remains unbiblical opinion.

Offering opinion by abusing verses and spamming verses that are unrelated to the topics and only are misused to try and prop up the pet doctrines one might want to push is not proving anything. If you diverted a point by trying to discuss how there is no millennium, for example, that is not worthy of any significant response. As far as I am concerned the millennium is as basic as Adam and Eve or Daniel.

 

[rwb]

Offering opinion by abusing verses and spamming verses that are unrelated to the topics and only are misused to try and prop up the pet doctrines one might want to push is not proving anything. If you diverted a point by trying to discuss how there is no millennium, for example, that is not worthy of any significant response. As far as I am concerned the millennium is as basic as Adam and Eve or Daniel.

Yes, I understand what you believe regarding the thousand years. Problem is the Bible does not agree with your opinion. And sadly, because the Bible disagrees with your opinion you can provide nothing from Scripture to prove what you allege. That makes your doctrine to be in error and contradict what the Bible does teach. Which apparently does not matter to those who come with this false doctrine of ONE thousand years coming after Christ comes the second time.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Paul is speaking to the Church in Thessalonica, saying these faithful saints living in the first century AD they will suffer persecutions and tribulations, they are called to endure. This is not speaking of the return of Christ when the last trumpet begins to sound. Paul is telling us the Church will suffer this righteous judgment of God and endure and through their endurance they are counted worthy of the Kingdom of God for which they suffer in life.

2 Thessalonians 1:1-5 (KJV) Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth; So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

When the Lord returns in flaming fire with vengeance on them that do not know God, and do not obey the Gospel. They shall be punished with everlasting destruction when Christ comes to be glorified in His saints.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-12 (KJV) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power: That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

There is nothing found in the words of Paul to indicate there will then be another one thousand years of time when the Lord Jesus Christ comes the second time. John tells us that when the seventh angel begins to sound "time shall be no more". (Rev 10) The return of the Lord the second time is preceded by the sounding of the last trumpet because then the Kingdom will be complete, no more to come into the Kingdom of God, so no purpose for having another one thousand years of time for this earth.

Since it has not been fulfilled to date sir, It is rather obvious that it is yet future sir.

I am a bit shocked you are unaware of the Kingdom coming and the millennial reign of Christ, as much is stated about it in the Bible. Would you like to discuss it further?

 

[Robert Gwin]

I've been told by many, even among xjws who have thrown the baby out with the bathwater that it's just a cycle.

Did you remind him that Jesus has already returned?

Why would I Be? He has not returned yet, that is yet future. He has however, began his presence which started the last day stretch of this world.

 

[rwb]

Since it has not been fulfilled to date sir, It is rather obvious that it is yet future sir.

I am a bit shocked you are unaware of the Kingdom coming and the millennial reign of Christ, as much is stated about it in the Bible. Would you like to discuss it further?

I agree Christ has not yet come the second time. He will not come again until His Kingdom is complete. If the Bible teaches there will be a one thousand year reign of Christ on this earth after He comes the second time, it should also tell us the purpose for another one thousand years on this earth AFTER His Kingdom is complete?

Robert, if adding another one thousand more years of time for this earth after Christ returns could be rationally explained, why has no one holding to this one thousand years been able to explain its purpose? It makes no sense to say there will be another one thousand years of time on this earth after Christ returns that ends with corruption? Christ tells us His coming again ushers His people into eternity on the new earth, not left on this earth for one thousand more years that will once again end with the same corruption we experienced from Satan in the beginning at creation.

 

[dad]

Yes, I understand what you believe regarding the thousand years. Problem is the Bible does not agree with your opinion. And sadly, because the Bible disagrees with your opinion you can provide nothing from Scripture to prove what you allege. That makes your doctrine to be in error and contradict what the Bible does teach. Which apparently does not matter to those who come with this false doctrine of ONE thousand years coming after Christ comes the second time.

OK so you want to focus on the reign of Jesus with His saints after He returns. You have made a claim that will never happen.

Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

So Jesus will rule in Jerusalem. You with me so far?

Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Most of us believe we are living in the last days, and several prophecies are to be fulfilled during that time period. Have you observed any of the prophecies for the last days being fulfilled? What are you observing that is being fulfilled?

The Euphrates river is drying up...as prophesied.
Revelation 16:12
English Standard Version
12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up, to prepare the way for the kings from the east.

 

[rwb]

OK so you want to focus on the reign of Jesus with His saints after He returns. You have made a claim that will never happen.

Isaiah 24:23
Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the Lord of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

So Jesus will rule in Jerusalem. You with me so far?

Isaiah cannot be writing of earthly mount Zion and Jerusalem, because this is in reference to the time coming when the earth is utterly broken down, and cleaned dissolved. That happens when Christ comes the second time when the saints are called up to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God against the earth and all who remain on it is finished. Then we look not to this earth but the new heaven and new earth that shall come after the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. You say Isaiah is speaking of Zion and Jerusalem on this earth, but when we read Isaiah in context it seems he is speaking of heavenly sion and heavenly Jerusalem.

Isaiah 24:19-23 (KJV) The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

Hebrews 12:22 (KJV) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[dad]

Isaiah cannot be writing of earthly mount Zion and Jerusalem, because this is in reference to the time coming when the earth is utterly broken down, and cleaned dissolved. That happens when Christ comes the second time when the saints are called up to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God against the earth and all who remain on it is finished. Then we look not to this earth but the new heaven and new earth that shall come after the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. You say Isaiah is speaking of Zion and Jerusalem on this earth, but when we read Isaiah in context it seems he is speaking of heavenly sion and heavenly Jerusalem.

He spoke of Jerusalem and mount zion. He already rules the heavenly mount zion. So that is not what the end time prophesy could be talking about.

To remove all doubt we can look at another verse.

Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

So yes it is certainly in this earth. So posting verses that show there is a heavenly Zion won't work here. Like Jesus said, let God's will be done 'on earth as it is in heaven'.

 

[rwb]

He spoke of Jerusalem and mount zion. He already rules the heavenly mount zion. So that is not what the end time prophesy could be talking about.

Yes, Christ does already rule and reign from heavenly zion in heavenly Jerusalem. His rule from heaven over all the earth began after He resurrected from the dead and ascended to heaven where He received a Kingdom that shall never end.

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Acts 1:9-10 (KJV) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

Though the Kingdom of God has always existed in heaven, Christ didn't begin to rule from heaven until after His cross, resurrection and ascension.

Jeremiah 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord , that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

So yes it is certainly in this earth. So posting verses that show there is a heavenly Zion won't work here. Like Jesus said, let God's will be done 'on earth as it is in heaven'.

The prophesy of Jeremiah, like that of Isaiah is fulfilled when Christ was born a man, lived a sinless life, died on the cross, resurrected from the dead, and ascended up to heaven where He is the son of David, and righteous Branch reigning over His creation from heaven and executing judgment and justice in the earth.

Matthew 1:1 (KJV) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Romans 9:28 (KJV) For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Matthew 21:5 (KJV) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Jeremiah's prophesy is of the New Covenant through the blood and resurrected life of Christ.

Hebrews 8:8-13 (KJV) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[dad]

Yes, Christ does already rule and reign from heavenly zion in heavenly Jerusalem. His rule from heaven over all the earth began after He resurrected from the dead and ascended to heaven where He received a Kingdom that shall never end.

So He ordered Ukraine to be bombed? He directed Hitler to wreak destruction? He orchestrated the gender confusion and Sodom agendas and child sacrifices? Sorry. He is not ruling the governments of this world now directly at all, and they fight and hate Him. He has not destroyed all His enemies and returned to earth. His kingdom will never end. His kingdom will come to earth and then it will be as heaven. Obviously not now. That is ridiculous.

Though the Kingdom of God has always existed in heaven, Christ didn't begin to rule from heaven until after His cross, resurrection and ascension.

As explained above, that is patently false.

The prophesy of Jeremiah, like that of Isaiah is fulfilled when Christ was born a man, lived a sinless life, died on the cross, resurrected from the dead, and ascended up to heaven where He is the son of David, and righteous Branch reigning over His creation from heaven and executing judgment and justice in the earth.

What prophesy? Sorry you can't slide that one by.

Matthew 1:1 (KJV) The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Romans 9:28 (KJV) For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

Matthew 21:5 (KJV) Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.

Jeremiah's prophesy is of the New Covenant through the blood and resurrected life of Christ.

What prophesy? The verses you cite have nothing to do with Him reigning over the nations of this world now. Why do you spam unrelated verses as if they supported you? Strange. I assume it is to appear as if you had some idea about what you are saying?

Hebrews 8:8-13 (KJV) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

And...so? What is it you thought you were reading here? Try to post relevant verses.

 

[rwb]

So He ordered Ukraine to be bombed? He directed Hitler to wreak destruction? He orchestrated the gender confusion and Sodom agendas and child sacrifices? Sorry. He is not ruling the governments of this world now directly at all, and they fight and hate Him. He has not destroyed all His enemies and returned to earth. His kingdom will never end. His kingdom will come to earth and then it will be as heaven. Obviously not now. That is ridiculous.

God doesn't order evil! Scripture tells us where evil comes from. While God uses evil in this world to accomplish His purposes, He does not order and thereby cause the evil that man of his/her own evil heart commit. Evil proceeds from the heart of wicked mankind from the fall. Mankind came under the curse of death through sin because of their own free will they heeded the voice of wickedness and disobeyed God. Now all of mankind are born of the same desire to heed whatsoever they might conceive of from their hearts.

Romans 3:10-12 (KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

James 1:13-15 (KJV) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Your error comes from not knowing the Scripture. Scripture affirms there will never be peace upon this earth! That was not the purpose for which Satan was bound. The opinion that when Satan is bound for one thousand years this world will know no evil is not found in Scripture.

Satan is the god of this world, called the prince and power of the air. The spirit that works in the children of disobedience. Though Satan once had the power to hold unbelieving man in bondage to darkness and fear of death, that power was broken when Christ defeated sin and death by His cross and resurrection.

Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Even though in this age of time, Satan has power over children of disobedience, he cannot prevent the Kingdom from being complete by holding mankind in fear of bondage to death. Now when man hears the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Spirit, whosoever believes by grace through faith has been delivered from the fear of death.

Christ is reigning and ruling over His people on earth from the kingdom of heaven. While Satan through unbelieving mankind rules and reigns through the hearts and minds of unbelievers. This will remain the course of this world until the seventh angel begins to sound that time shall be no more. Again, your doctrine errs in believing that Christ will return to this earth to usher in one thousand years of peace without any evil on this earth. This earth is destined to destruction, so why would Christ set up a Kingdom on this earth that will be for only one thousand years since He promises His people will live forever with Him on the new earth? Why after achieving perfect peace on the earth where there will be no more death, or evil of any kind for one thousand years would Christ allow Satan freedom to return the earth back to the evil it had been? There is no logic in this doctrine.

As explained above, that is patently false.

What's patently false is the opinion that Christ will rule and reign over the reprobates who are of their father the devil. Christ rules and reigns over His people from heaven, and through them the Kingdom of God is being completed one convert at a time.

 

[dad]

God doesn't order evil! Scripture tells us where evil comes from. While God uses evil in this world to accomplish His purposes, He does not order and thereby cause the evil that man of his/her own evil heart commit. Evil proceeds from the heart of wicked mankind from the fall. Mankind came under the curse of death through sin because of their own free will they heeded the voice of wickedness and disobeyed God. Now all of mankind are born of the same desire to heed whatsoever they might conceive of from their hearts.

So the leaders running the world ordering the evil are not working for God? Make up your mind, didn't you say Jesus was ruling the nations today?

Romans 3:10-12 (KJV) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Jeremiah 17:9 (KJV) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

James 1:13-15 (KJV) Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Your error comes from not knowing the Scripture. Scripture affirms there will never be peace upon this earth!

Jesus is the Prince of Peace and when He returns there will be peace. Yoour claim that He rules the kingdoms of the world now is wrong. The verses you spammed have zero to do with Jesus ruling the kingdoms of this world today.

That was not the purpose for which Satan was bound. The opinion that when Satan is bound for one thousand years this world will know no evil is not found in Scripture.

Why would it be, you made that up. There will be some rebels in the millennium.
They will try to rebel against Jesus and us ruling. They can't blame that on devils.

Satan is the god of this world, called the prince and power of the air. The spirit that works in the children of disobedience. Though Satan once had the power to hold unbelieving man in bondage to darkness and fear of death, that power was broken when Christ defeated sin and death by His cross and resurrection.

Ephesians 2:2 (KJV) Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Even though in this age of time, Satan has power over children of disobedience, he cannot prevent the Kingdom from being complete by holding mankind in fear of bondage to death. Now when man hears the Gospel proclaimed in the power of the Spirit, whosoever believes by grace through faith has been delivered from the fear of death.

Made up doctrine that has zero to do with supporting your claim Jesus is ruling the world here now.

Christ is reigning and ruling over His people on earth from the kingdom of heaven.

His people do not control the nations. GONG!

Why after achieving perfect peace on the earth where there will be no more death, or evil of any kind for one thousand years would Christ allow Satan freedom to return the earth back to the evil it had been? There is no logic in this doctrine.

Yours is not to question God. He tells us what will happen and there are reasons. By the way, the little time Satan is released in the final days of the 1000 years will not see the earth brought back to evil! It will gather the rebels together to be killed and taken off the earth forever along with Satan.

What's patently false is the opinion that Christ will rule and reign over the reprobates who are of their father the devil. Christ rules and reigns over His people from heaven, and through them the Kingdom of God is being completed one convert at a time.

Jesus will rule all kingdoms of the whole earth with a rod of iron. In the end there will be rebels who will be destroyed. Then the eternal new heavens and earth are created for us. He is not reigning now. Obviously.

ONLY when Jesus returns will all the kingdoms be His to rule.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 

[RR144]

He has not returned yet, that is yet future. He has however, began his presence which started the last day stretch of this world.

So he's here but hasn't returned? How's that?

 

[RR144]

? Where have you been hiding Him?

Seek and ye shall find

 

[dad]

Seek and ye shall find

The context was that a claim was made about Jesus already being here. Anyone looking in the desert or somewhere now for Him is deceived.

 

[RR144]

The context was that a claim was made about Jesus already being here. Anyone looking in the desert or somewhere now for Him is deceived.

“In a little while the world will see Me no longer." - John 14:19