Last day prophecies fulfilled

[Robert Gwin]

When praying "thy Kingdom come" is praying the Church (faithful saints) are obedient to the mandate Christ gave us before He left this earth.

Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Mark 16:15-16 (KJV) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


The problem for all of God's creation comes from sin, and death that is the consequence of sin Robert. This earth, and all God created is affected by sin, and all of creation is in decay and dying. Until the earth and all creation is made new again it will never be free of decay and death. The earth that shall remain forever will not be the same earth. By the flood that came in the days of Noah, God used water to destroy every living thing upon this earth, leaving this earth, but cleansed through water. When Christ comes the second time, this earth will be made new again through cleansing by fire.

The difference between the destruction of fire that shall come, and the flood waters in the days of Noah is that there will not be any faithful saints left upon this earth, as they were in the Ark of Noah's day. Every saint still alive upon this earth when Christ returns the second time will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (raptured), and physically resurrected in immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh. Then God will send down fire from heaven to utterly burn up everything still alive on this earth. Then a new heaven and new earth will come with the holy city, new Jerusalem, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. That is a picture of faithful living souls (spirit with physical bodies=complete living soul) inheriting the new heaven and new earth as we come with Christ from the air after all has been made new.

Revelation 21:1-4 (KJV) And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Revelation 21:5 (KJV) And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

I agree! Satan was cast out of heaven with the birth of Christ. (Rev 12) Satan no longer has access to heaven as he had before the advent of Christ's birth. John writes of a battle he saw in heaven between Michael and his angels and the dragon and his angels, and "that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him".
Then John writes of hearing a great voice in heaven saying, "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night."

Notice the highlighted part of the passage, "now is come salvation...and the kingdom of our God." Does this not prove to you that Christ came with the Kingdom of God with His first advent? The Kingdom of God came with the birth of Christ, but we can only know and enter into His Kingdom spiritually through faith.

Salvation, and the Kingdom of God came when Christ was born, but this is also when Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth where he began to persecute the woman (faithful Old Covenant Church). The woman (Old Covenant Church) fled into the wilderness (dispersed throughout the world) "where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent". The earth helped the woman, many of faith throughout the earth embrace Zionism, to prevent the utter destruction of the Jewish faithful Church of Old. So the dragon (Satan) "went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ". That is the Church (faithful saints) found throughout the world as the Gospel is preached unto all nations.

Through the birth of Christ Satan was cast out of heaven, then by His cross and resurrection Christ defeated Satan's power to hold people who would believe in bondage to fear of death. This is how Satan was bound, not with physical chains, that cannot hold a spiritual being, but by displaying Christ has all power over death and the Gospel sent in the power of the Spirit brings many to saving faith, and everlasting life. People knowing the life they have by grace through faith in Christ is forever have no more fear of bondage to death. Satan's power is broken, and this is how Christ binds him.

When Christ comes the second time, this earth will be made new again through cleansing by fire.

The fire will not be literal any more than the lake of fire Rw. Please feel free to call me Bob

The difference between the destruction of fire that shall come, and the flood waters in the days of Noah is that there will not be any faithful saints left upon this earth, as they were in the Ark of Noah's day. Every saint still alive upon this earth when Christ returns the second time will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (raptured), and physically resurrected in immortal and incorruptible bodies of flesh.

With the exception of physically, we fully agree 1 Thes 4:17

Through the birth of Christ Satan was cast out of heaven, then by His cross and resurrection Christ defeated Satan's power to hold people who would believe in bondage to fear of death. This is how Satan was bound, not with physical chains, that cannot hold a spiritual being, but by displaying Christ has all power over death and the Gospel sent in the power of the Spirit brings many to saving faith, and everlasting life. People knowing the life they have by grace through faith in Christ is forever have no more fear of bondage to death. Satan's power is broken, and this is how Christ binds him.

Christs enemies were cast out of heaven to the earth when Jesus took the crown sir Rev 6:2-4; 12: 12:7-9,12. The next step when Jesus returns:
Re 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Re 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

 

[rwb]

No,the earth will continue.
It's a shame you dont believe God will keep his promise and give Abraham the land he promised him.Scripture shows that land quite beautiful in the future.So much life in it that even the dead sea itself is full of fish of different kinds.But you don't believe God can do that to the earth.

Ezekiel 47
Then he led me back to the bank of the river. 7 When I arrived there, I saw a great number of trees on each side of the river. 8 He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah,[b] where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. 9 Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. 10 Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea. 11 But the swamps and marshes will not become fresh; they will be left for salt. 12 Fruit trees of all kinds will grow on both banks of the river. Their leaves will not wither, nor will their fruit fail. Every month they will bear fruit, because the water from the sanctuary flows to them. Their fruit will serve for food and their leaves for healing.”


Would you like to read more about the land promised to abraham as an everlasting possession?There is much you can read about it.There is much you can learn about the land of Canaan.
The land you say will no longer exist.

Why do you continue to push for an eternal promise on an earth destined to destruction? Do you need the eternal promise God made to Abraham and his SEED (Christ) on this earth to promote a doctrine for another one thousand years after the Lord returns? Perhaps millennialism is why you cannot understand that God does not eternally promise to give something that will not be forever. I don't believe you have proper discernment of the prophetic visions God gave His prophet, Ezekiel.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Why do you continue to push for an eternal promise on an earth destined to destruction? Do you need the eternal promise God made to Abraham and his SEED (Christ) on this earth to promote a doctrine for another one thousand years after the Lord returns? Perhaps millennialism is why you cannot understand that God does not eternally promise to give something that will not be forever. I don't believe you have proper discernment of the prophetic visions God gave His prophet, Ezekiel.

I don't have to promote 1000 years on this earth after Christ comes.The book of revelation does that.
It corresponds perfectly with Ezekiel's account of the resurrection of Israel in Ezekiel 37 to the destruction of Gog in 38-39.
But Ezekiel continues the story after Fire comes down from heaven and destroys Gog and all his great army.Now you believe that is the end of the story but it continues.

Ezekiel 39
39 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.

6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the Lord.

7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the Lord, the Holy One in Israel.

8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord God; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord God.

11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord God.

14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.


As you can see,the earth continues long after Fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys Gog.
I can continue if you wish.I can continue right through the next chapter .

 

[rwb]

The fire will not be literal any more than the lake of fire Rw. Please feel free to call me Bob

I agree Scripture often uses language such as "trial by fire" an expression of anguish and suffering Christians must go through in this life Bob, but I cannot agree the lake of fire or destruction by fire of this earth that shall come will simply be expressions of torment. The fiery destruction to come is likened to the flood waters of Noah's day. Just as water flooded the earth, utterly destroying every living thing upon the earth, so too the destruction by fire will also literally burn up, destroying everything alive on the earth and the heavens

With the exception of physically, we fully agree 1 Thes 4:17

The Lord returns when the last trumpet (7th) sounds, and according to Paul, that is when believers shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and at that same last trumpet the physical body of believers shall also be resurrected to immortality and incorruptible. When our body becomes immortal and is reunited with our eternal spirit we shall be as we were at creation before sin, and death through sin entered creation. So, once more mankind, fitted for the new earth will be body and spirit together a complete living soul, then destined to live forever.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 (KJV) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Believers will be caught up as whole or complete humans, possessing both immortal body and eternal spirit. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in the same way Christ was physically seen ascending into heaven physically. We are caught up to the Lord in the air to escape the wrath of God by fire that shall come upon the heavens and earth.

Remember too, there will not be more time given this earth after the seventh (last) angel begins to sound. The mystery of God is finished, the Kingdom of God complete. There will be no more reason for delay, because there will be no more Gentiles to be saved.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Christs enemies were cast out of heaven to the earth when Jesus took the crown sir Rev 6:2-4; 12: 12:7-9,12. The next step when Jesus returns:
Re 20:1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Re 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,
Re 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut [it], and sealed [it] over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years should be finished: after this he must be loosed for a little time.

As newborn babe Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords, and of His Kingdom there shall be no end. As the rider on the white horse, Christ is first seen as conquering, and to conquer having only one crown upon His head as the man child born of "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars". After conquering Satan and his angels through Michael and his angels His victorious battle against the spiritual forces of evil upon the earth began. When we see the rider on the white horse again, He is crowned with many crowns and is clothed with a vesture of blood, and His name is called the Word of God. This depicts the life of Christ at His cross where He defeated sin, and defeated the power of Satan by His resurrection, proving He has power over death. Satan's power to hold people in bondage to fear of death was forever broken for all who believe.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting g Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Revelation 6:2 (KJV) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 19:11 (KJV) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 (KJV) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 (KJV) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

In Revelation 12 John writes of what came to pass on earth after the birth of Christ. The short time (vs 12) Satan was given to persecute the woman (Church of Old) and Her seed was the time from Christ's birth to His cross and resurrection. Then in Rev 20 John writes of what came to pass after Christ lived a sinless life, gave His life on the cross, and resurrected from the dead. Satan's "short time" was over. This is when TIME, which a thousand years represents began with the Gospel of Christ being sent unto all the nations of the world in power of the Holy Spirit. Christ's cross and resurrection bound the power of Satan. And his power to hold all people in bondage to fear of death will continue to be bound until this TIME, likened to a thousand years shall be no more. Then Satan will once again be given a "little season" before the fire of God comes down from heaven to utterly burn up every living thing upon the earth.

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

 

[rwb]

I don't have to promote 1000 years on this earth after Christ comes.The book of revelation does that.

The book of Revelation shows us a thousand years equates to TIME! Time when the power of Satan to hold all people in bondage to fear of death has been forever broken by Christ' cross and resurrection. And at the same TIME when the Gospel is sent unto all the Gentile nations of the world. Once again you prove you have no understanding of Bible prophesy, so you read ONE thousand years into Rev 20 after the seventh trumpet begins to sound that TIME shall be no longer.

 

[shilohsfoal]

The book of Revelation shows us a thousand years equates to TIME! Time when the power of Satan to hold all people in bondage to fear of death has been forever broken by Christ' cross and resurrection. And at the same TIME when the Gospel is sent unto all the Gentile nations of the world. Once again you prove you have no understanding of Bible prophesy, so you read ONE thousand years into Rev 20 after the seventh trumpet begins to sound that TIME shall be no longer.

Actually,a thousand years is as a day,and a day as a thousand years.It would be best if you were not ignorant of that one thing.

2 Peter 3

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[rwb]

Actually,a thousand years is as a day,and a day as a thousand years.It would be best if you were not ignorant of that one thing.

2 Peter 3

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

What does that mean? God is not saying one day and a thousand years are the same thing, so what does He mean? What does "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" mean? Hint: John writes that saints who have been martyred in time had already lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. John also writes that there will be others who shall live in time and also be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with him a thousand years. How can both those who lived in time and died, and others who shall live in time and reign with Him both be a thousand years?

Re 20:4 .....they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

When trying to understand how all who are of Christ live and reign with Him a thousand years, no matter if living in the first century AD or the last day of this age, it might help you to consider it is only those who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death that are with Him a thousand years. Because the rest of the dead do not live again until the thousand years were finished.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[shilohsfoal]

What does that mean? God is not saying one day and a thousand years are the same thing, so what does He mean? What does "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" mean? Hint: John writes that saints who have been martyred in time had already lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. John also writes that there will be others who shall live in time and also be priests of God and of Christ, and reign with him a thousand years. How can both those who lived in time and died, and others who shall live in time and reign with Him both be a thousand years?

Re 20:4 .....they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years

When trying to understand how all who are of Christ live and reign with Him a thousand years, no matter if living in the first century AD or the last day of this age, it might help you to consider it is only those who have part in the first resurrection and have overcome the second death that are with Him a thousand years. Because the rest of the dead do not live again until the thousand years were finished.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

I've understood that for decades now.
But you still don't understand what day that 1000 years is In scripture.

I'll give you a hint.That 1000 years is one of seven.After that , it starts a new.

 

[rwb]

I've understood that for decades now.
But you still don't understand what day that 1000 years is In scripture.

I'll give you a hint.That 1000 years is one of seven.After that , it starts a new.

What exactly have you understood for decades now? It clearly is not the meaning of a thousand years. As far as 1000 years being one of seven, you got me??? You'll have to prove what you allege. I'm not inclined to agree without having proof from the Word of God.

 

[shilohsfoal]

What exactly have you understood for decades now? It clearly is not the meaning of a thousand years. As far as 1000 years being one of seven, you got me??? You'll have to prove what you allege. I'm not inclined to agree without having proof from the Word of God.

I've already quoted this once already.You say you don't understand it.Are there not seven days and the last is the Sabbath?After the Sabbath,it starts a new.

2 Peter 3

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[stormymonday]

A good hermeneutic and sticking to it isn't that difficult to acquire. With just a few basics we can get better insight into the true meaning of any passage. CONTEXT is important but the details are also found in the definitions and grammar. Too often people disregard the grammar, and most don't even consider it at all. You won't always find proper grammar in the KJV translation even though one of the documents they used was the Textus Receptus. It's a mystery to me why the KJV translators eliminated the word in some passages because it changes everything. They didn't eliminate it here in Rev. 20.

The most misunderstood words in Eschatology are the simple ones. Words like world, earth, age, but, and especially the words ALL and THE.

There's no doubt that the grammar in Revelation 20 specifies a literal 1,000 years BECAUSE the word THE is used to describe it. IF the English KJV used the article 'A' in every verse or eliminated the word THE AND the interlinear did NOT have the article THE - I would say the Amil's are right!

There's a lot written about the word THE and it would do all of you some good to read about its usage a bit. In every instance its usage basically demonstrates and determines something DEFINITE -

"corresponds to our definite article the (German der, die, das), which is properly a demonstrative pronoun,

You can read about the word by clicking on STRONGS G3588.

What proves this to be a literal 1,000-year period is because the article "THE" is used 3 times to describe it. When the article is used it indicates something specific. In this case that specific thing is a literal 1,000-year period.

The Textus Receptus also shows verses 3, 5, and 7 with the ARTICLE THE.

V.3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand G5507 years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

V.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand G5507 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

V. 7 And when the thousand G5507 years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

One more time everybody!!!

This indicates a literal 1,000 years since the definite article - THE - is used to describe it.

 

[rwb]

A good hermeneutic and sticking to it isn't that difficult to acquire. With just a few basics we can get better insight into the true meaning of any passage. CONTEXT is important but the details are also found in the definitions and grammar. Too often people disregard the grammar, and most don't even consider it at all. You won't always find proper grammar in the KJV translation even though one of the documents they used was the Textus Receptus. It's a mystery to me why the KJV translators eliminated the word in some passages because it changes everything. They didn't eliminate it here in Rev. 20.

The most misunderstood words in Eschatology are the simple ones. Words like world, earth, age, but, and especially the words ALL and THE.

There's no doubt that the grammar in Revelation 20 specifies a literal 1,000 years BECAUSE the word THE is used to describe it. IF the English KJV used the article 'A' in every verse or eliminated the word THE AND the interlinear did NOT have the article THE - I would say the Amil's are right!

There's a lot written about the word THE and it would do all of you some good to read about its usage a bit. In every instance its usage basically demonstrates and determines something DEFINITE -

"corresponds to our definite article the (German der, die, das), which is properly a demonstrative pronoun,

You can read about the word by clicking on STRONGS G3588.

What proves this to be a literal 1,000-year period is because the article "THE" is used 3 times to describe it. When the article is used it indicates something specific. In this case that specific thing is a literal 1,000-year period.

The Textus Receptus also shows verses 3, 5, and 7 with the ARTICLE THE.

V.3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand G5507 years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

V.5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand G5507 years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

V. 7 And when the thousand G5507 years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

One more time everybody!!!

This indicates a literal 1,000 years since the definite article - THE - is used to describe it.

Your explanation is not accurate because you repeatedly misquote the verses in reference. All of these verses that say "THE thousand years" refer back to "A" thousand years.

Revelation 20:2 (KJV) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Revelation 20:3 (KJV) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan is bound A thousand years, and when THE same thousand years should be fulfilled he must be loosed a little season.

Revelation 20:4 (KJV) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:5 (KJV) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

John sees life (living souls) of martyred saints who LIVED and REIGNED with Christ A thousand years. John says the rest of the dead lived not again until THE thousand years were finished. This shows us physically dead people, some of who were martyred for their faith, but are still living souls. But the rest of the dead who have not been martyred for their faith will not lived not again until THE same thousand years were finished.

Revelation 20:6 (KJV) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Revelation 20:7 (KJV) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

John writes blessed and holy he that has part in the first resurrection, the second death has no power over, and the too shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with Him A thousand years. And when THE same thousand years are expired, Satan will be loosed.

One of the reasons millennialists have such a hard time understanding this is because the punctuation that was added to the Bible causes confusion of verse 5. If we read 5&6 together without the punctation we get a better picture of the first resurrection.

but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished this is the first resurrection blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection on such the second death hath no power but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years

Without adding the punctation we read, the first resurrection is of the blessed and holy who have part in the first resurrection and have no fear of the second death, but they shall be (future tense) priests of God and of Christ and shall reign with him a thousand years.

It's impossible to read this as the rest of the dead being of the first resurrection, because the rest of the dead will not live again until after the thousand years expire. And only those who have lived and died in Christ and those who shall live with Christ a thousand years have part in the first resurrection.

The only real mystery here is that you continue to promote these verses saying a literal 1000 years, but not one of them say this. Then after misquoting, you say this indicates a literal 1000 years! What you call "A good hermeneutic" is sorely lacking.

 

[stormymonday]

Your explanation is not accurate because you repeatedly misquote the verses in reference. All of these verses that say "THE thousand years" refer back to "A" thousand years.

Incorrect. There is NO definite article A in the Greek. There is a definite article THE.

A definite article is an article that indicates that a noun refers to a specific thing or to something that has been identified previously.

In English and GREEK - there's only ONE definite article and that's the word THE.

"According to Webster’s Dictionary, a definite article is, “the word the used in English to refer to a person or thing that is identified or specified.” In the English language, the word “the” usually precedes a noun. This is referred to as the definite article. Greek has the same thing."

Know the Definite Articles for Different Cases in Greek

One of the reasons millennialists have such a hard time understanding this is because the punctuation that was added to the Bible causes confusion of verse 5. If we read 5&6 together without the punctation we get a better picture of the first resurrection.

It has nothing to do with English punctuation. It has all to do with grammar. Punctuation is about the same in Greek as it is in English anyway.

The only real mystery here is that you continue to promote these verses saying a literal 1000 years, but not one of them say this. Then after misquoting, you say this indicates a literal 1000 years! What you call "A good hermeneutic" is sorely lacking.

I continue to promote a literal 1,000 period because it really isn't that difficult to figure out whether it IS or it ISN'T! What you need to do is accept the grammar of the text and the proper usage of the DEFINITE ARTICLE THE!. But instead you're stuck into Amil theology which disregards the proper use of grammar. WHY? It debunks Amil!

 

[rwb]

Incorrect. There is NO definite article A in the Greek. There is a definite article THE.

A definite article is an article that indicates that a noun refers to a specific thing or to something that has been identified previously.

In English and GREEK - there's only ONE definite article and that's the word THE.

"According to Webster’s Dictionary, a definite article is, “the word the used in English to refer to a person or thing that is identified or specified.” In the English language, the word “the” usually precedes a noun. This is referred to as the definite article. Greek has the same thing."

Know the Definite Articles for Different Cases in Greek


It has nothing to do with English punctuation. It has all to do with grammar. Punctuation is about the same in Greek as it is in English anyway.

I continue to promote a literal 1,000 period because it really isn't that difficult to figure out whether it IS or it ISN'T! What you need to do is accept the grammar of the text and the proper usage of the DEFINITE ARTICLE THE!. But instead you're stuck into Amil theology which disregards the proper use of grammar. WHY? It debunks Amil!

Hardly! I am not the one who must change the wording of the text to fit my doctrine. What cannot be found anywhere in Revelation is exactly "ONE" thousand years. There is nothing more disingenuous than someone who thinks he knows what he doesn't know!

A thousand - Strong's Greek Dictionary
5507. χίλιοι chilioi (chílioi)
Search for G5507 in KJVSL; in KJV.
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.
adjective

The thousand - Strong's Greek Dictionary
5507. χίλιοι chilioi (chílioi)
Search for G5507 in KJVSL; in KJV.
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.
adjective

 

[stormymonday]

Hardly! I am not the one who must change the wording of the text to fit my doctrine. What cannot be found anywhere in Revelation is exactly "ONE" thousand years. There is nothing more disingenuous than someone who thinks he knows what he doesn't know!

A thousand - Strong's Greek Dictionary
5507. χίλιοι chilioi (chílioi)
Search for G5507 in KJVSL; in KJV.
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.
adjective

The thousand - Strong's Greek Dictionary
5507. χίλιοι chilioi (chílioi)
Search for G5507 in KJVSL; in KJV.
χίλιοι chílioi, khil'-ee-oy
plural of uncertain affinity; a thousand:—thousand.
adjective

I'm telling you what the grammar tells us all. The word THE in Greek and English indicates something specific and that is a specific 1,000-year period. In Revelation 20 the word THOUSAND is listed as a NOUN in the interlinear.

The use of the word THE is also disregarded in other prophecies where people just don't care about its proper use because it debunks their theology. It really is fairly simple to understand how the definite article THE is used. The only people who disregard its proper use are those whose theology it debunks. There really is no deviating from this grammatical truth as it's constant both in English and Greek.

 

[rwb]

I'm telling you what the grammar tells us all. The word THE in Greek and English indicates something specific and that is a specific 1,000-year period. In Revelation 20 the word THOUSAND is listed as a NOUN in the interlinear.

The use of the word THE is also disregarded in other prophecies where people just don't care about its use. It really is fairly simple to understand how the definite article THE is used. The only people who disregard its proper use are those whose theology it debunks.

A, An - the indefinite article. "A" and "an" are called the indefinite articles. They define their noun as something unspecific (e.g., something generic, something mentioned for the first time).

The - would be the definite article. "The" is called the definite article. It defines its noun as something specific (e.g., something previously mentioned or known, something unique, something being identified by the speaker).

John writes Satan is bound for A thousand years. Something unspecific, mentioned for the first time. Then John writes after THE thousand years Satan shall be loosed. THE indicating something previously mentioned or known, something unique being identified. It is both A thousand years and THE thousand years determined by when it began and when it shall end.

Like I've already said, THE thousand years is always in response, and reconciled with A thousand years John had already mentioned.

 

[stormymonday]

A, An - the indefinite article. "A" and "an" are called the indefinite articles. They define their noun as something unspecific (e.g., something generic, something mentioned for the first time).

The - would be the definite article. "The" is called the definite article. It defines its noun as something specific (e.g., something previously mentioned or known, something unique, something being identified by the speaker).

John writes Satan is bound for A thousand years. Something unspecific, mentioned for the first time. Then John writes after THE thousand years Satan shall be loosed. THE indicating something previously mentioned or known, something unique being identified. It is both A thousand years and THE thousand years determined by when it began and when it shall end.

Like I've already said, THE thousand years is always in response, and reconciled with A thousand years John had already mentioned.

Do you like other Amillennial-ist believe Satan is currently bound and has been since the cross and Jesus is currently ruling from heaven?

 

[rwb]

Do you like other Premillennialist believe Satan is currently bound and has been since the cross and Jesus is currently ruling from heaven?

I think you meant to say like other Amils? The answer is yes I do indeed believe Scripture informs us that Christ bound the power Satan possessed, when he held all men in bondage to fear of death. But by His cross, and resurrection Satan's power was greatly diminished. Since Christ defeated Satan, sin and death by His cross, resurrection and ascension, men who hear the Gospel and believe no longer live in bondage to fear of death as they once did. And when Christ ascended to heaven after His resurrection, He was given dominion, glory, and a Kingdom that all people (without distinction, not without exception) nations, and languages should serve Him, His dominion is everlasting, and His Kingdom shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

 

[stormymonday]

I think you meant to say like other Amils? The answer is yes I do indeed believe Scripture informs us that Christ bound the power Satan possessed, when he held all men in bondage to fear of death. But by His cross, and resurrection Satan's power was greatly diminished. Since Christ defeated Satan, sin and death by His cross, resurrection and ascension, men who hear the Gospel and believe no longer live in bondage to fear of death as they once did. And when Christ ascended to heaven after His resurrection, He was given dominion, glory, and a Kingdom that all people (without distinction, not without exception) nations, and languages should serve Him, His dominion is everlasting, and His Kingdom shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:13-14 (KJV) I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

I did mean other Amil's. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Robert Gwin]

I agree Scripture often uses language such as "trial by fire" an expression of anguish and suffering Christians must go through in this life Bob, but I cannot agree the lake of fire or destruction by fire of this earth that shall come will simply be expressions of torment. The fiery destruction to come is likened to the flood waters of Noah's day. Just as water flooded the earth, utterly destroying every living thing upon the earth, so too the destruction by fire will also literally burn up, destroying everything alive on the earth and the heavens


The Lord returns when the last trumpet (7th) sounds, and according to Paul, that is when believers shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air, and at that same last trumpet the physical body of believers shall also be resurrected to immortality and incorruptible. When our body becomes immortal and is reunited with our eternal spirit we shall be as we were at creation before sin, and death through sin entered creation. So, once more mankind, fitted for the new earth will be body and spirit together a complete living soul, then destined to live forever.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1 Corinthians 15:53 (KJV) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 (KJV) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Believers will be caught up as whole or complete humans, possessing both immortal body and eternal spirit. We will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air in the same way Christ was physically seen ascending into heaven physically. We are caught up to the Lord in the air to escape the wrath of God by fire that shall come upon the heavens and earth.

Remember too, there will not be more time given this earth after the seventh (last) angel begins to sound. The mystery of God is finished, the Kingdom of God complete. There will be no more reason for delay, because there will be no more Gentiles to be saved.

Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



As newborn babe Christ is the King of kings and Lord of lords, and of His Kingdom there shall be no end. As the rider on the white horse, Christ is first seen as conquering, and to conquer having only one crown upon His head as the man child born of "a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars". After conquering Satan and his angels through Michael and his angels His victorious battle against the spiritual forces of evil upon the earth began. When we see the rider on the white horse again, He is crowned with many crowns and is clothed with a vesture of blood, and His name is called the Word of God. This depicts the life of Christ at His cross where He defeated sin, and defeated the power of Satan by His resurrection, proving He has power over death. Satan's power to hold people in bondage to fear of death was forever broken for all who believe.

Isaiah 9:6-7 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting g Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Revelation 6:2 (KJV) And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Revelation 19:11 (KJV) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:12 (KJV) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Revelation 19:13 (KJV) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

In Revelation 12 John writes of what came to pass on earth after the birth of Christ. The short time (vs 12) Satan was given to persecute the woman (Church of Old) and Her seed was the time from Christ's birth to His cross and resurrection. Then in Rev 20 John writes of what came to pass after Christ lived a sinless life, gave His life on the cross, and resurrected from the dead. Satan's "short time" was over. This is when TIME, which a thousand years represents began with the Gospel of Christ being sent unto all the nations of the world in power of the Holy Spirit. Christ's cross and resurrection bound the power of Satan. And his power to hold all people in bondage to fear of death will continue to be bound until this TIME, likened to a thousand years shall be no more. Then Satan will once again be given a "little season" before the fire of God comes down from heaven to utterly burn up every living thing upon the earth.

Revelation 20:1-3 (KJV) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Just as water flooded the earth, utterly destroying every living thing upon the earth, so too the destruction by fire will also literally burn up, destroying everything alive on the earth and the heavens

There were survivors in the flood, and an innumerable number survive the tribulation as well sir Rev 7:9,14

at that same last trumpet the physical body of believers shall also be resurrected to immortality and incorruptible.

Flesh and blood cannot inherit the heavenly Kingdom Rw, like Jesus they will be resurrected as a spirit being.
(1 Corinthians 15:44, 45) 44 It is sown a physical body; it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a physical body, there is also a spiritual one. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.