In Berkeley California, an enlightened community, it is now unlawful to have a fire in one's fireplace; which is an outrage, for just looking into flames is an edifying Zen experience. It made me realize how lost the citizenry there is, in terms of failing to realize that law is not as absolute as they are taking it to be, and, are allowing the most fundamental and ancient of man's possessions to be robbed from them, in the name of the existential absurdity that is law!
LAW IS NEITHER OBEYED DISOBEYED NOR BROKEN / AN EXISTENTIAL ONTOLOGICAL DISPROOF OF LAW
- Thread starter Duane Clinton Meehan
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That made me laugh....lawmakers have lost it and sold their souls to the highest paid lobbyist to pass laws on their behalf! SMH
While it may be that many Christian ministers do have such degrees, they are too often, in my own experience as was the apostle Paul before he met Jesus on the road to Damascus [Acts 9:3ff]. That is, he was a well educated man especially in the written scriptures, but he really did not know God. This is probably a common problem among ministers, although I have not done a study on it.
I guess it depends on what you consider being highly educated. Probably some here have been to seminaries or Bibles Schools or have attended a university and obtained a PhD in Theology, but I have not asked. Speaking for myself, while I attended a university, what I learned was ultimately not very helpful in my own walk with God. I intended to study languages, but never went beyond a Bachelor of Arts Degree for personal reasons.
What I know about the scriptures and God I learned long after my university days were finished on my own ticket and by a direct connection with Him while I was simply working as one more federal government employee. Some of the others I know on here have no more formal schooling in theology than I do, but they have come to know quite a bit.
I don't know what you know about faith in God, but that is essentially where we all are here, walking in faith, although there are a lot variations and disagreements on specifics. Many here are Bible students, but again there are disagreements among them on exactly what is required and even on how to get on the right path.
The following verse of scripture will give you a clue as to where people may start with God:
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11:6
No, they should not expect you to be something that you are not, but neither should you expect them to be something that they are not. It does work both ways.
A person can love God and walk with God without being an expert on the scriptures [although some of them may be], and it is not unusual for them to know very little about Philosophy as man might learn about it a college [or elsewhere?]. My own secular education only covered a basic introduction to Philosophy. That was in 1966 so I admittedly I recall very little. Sartre and Spinoza are names in my memory but without looking them up I remember effectively nothing of their writings.
No, you really don't have to address us as if we were 10 year old children, but probably if you don't simplify your communications, few of the members are likely to engage you seriously.... if at all. Each of them has his own reason for being here so I won't attempt to explain that for them. Why you are here is a question some might ask you?
Well go ahead as you will with all of the things on your mind. A few may be interested in conversing with you, but don't be surprised if they don't. I may look in, but I really don't have the time or patience to spend whole lot of time trying to figure out what men consider to be truth. I don't know all of the truth, but I believe I know the direction to go to encounter more. But... I doubt that you'd be interested in hearing about that.
Please do write all you want, Duane, I'll give you a phone call if I see something that interests me.
But now in spite of laws our society is already a very dangerous place and seemingly the worst is not here yet. A major problem with the best of laws is that men also enforce them... if they are enforced at all.
The best solution for now and then [whenever then is] is to seek first His kingdom and His righteousness.
You might believe this is a possibility but with men alone it is not. It only takes one man, young or middle aged or old, to stir up a hornet's nest, and your "natural consequence of their misconduct" is a pipe dream similar to an ideal communism. It won't work, because some man won't let it.
Amadeus;
Thank you kindly for such a thoughtful and lengthy response. Yes, it is a pipe dream to imagine a future transpiring in the mode I am thinking of; now, in the state I live in one can lower the boom on a home invader, and, supposedly. if someone puts you in the fear of great bodily harm or death outside of the home; otherwise one can expect a manslaughter indictment.
As far as being urged to become something other that what one is, I am simply submitting my writing here for consideration and am not demanding that members express themselves to me in another way, except in the case of Willie T, who is purposely toying ungraciously with my head.
Duane
Toying with your head? Just because I said I'd phone you if one of your posts interested me? I really will.
Well my friend I do wish you well in your endeavor. Pipe dream it may be but something to hope for. I guess from your words or the lack thereof, you see some good in the Way of Jesus but have not seen it as your own pathway. That is unfortunate from my point of view, but consider anyway what Jesus said here:
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25
For those who accept my understanding, the things that make one a rich man are more than monetary or material riches. Your own words about yourself could be included in this description of riches:
Hopefully one day He will take hold of you and make use of your "riches" as He did with the apostle Paul to accomplish great works toward something that is better than the "mode" in which you are now thinking. You can see it in your mind but as I see it, you have mis-identified it. And this as I understand it is no pipe dream!
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12
Amadeus;
I totally appreciate your ascribing riches to me; however, on the one hand you set forth that a rich man cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven, and, on the other hand, you suggest that with my particular ilk of infinite riches, I could possibly transcend Christ's achievements; which is beautifully complimentary and optimistic of you. Yes, I may be transcending Christ via my particular demonstration of His non-deity and, via my ontological disproof of the efficacy of law among human beings. However, given that my intellectual/cognitive deity exceeds Christ's, I, therefore, cannot embrace Him as my God; thus, I cannot possibly enter His Kingdom on Earth, and, must build my own Earthly civilizational sociosphere; which, at this point, I can only do in writing.
Duane
Helen;
As I write I notice that I am using the same words over and over in all of my different sentences; and, I am using the same ideas over and over; so, I just realized that I should compile a list of definitions for each word and, an explanation of each idea, separate from the essays; for the sake of persons like you and Willie T, who wish I would/could write in simple English, which I find exceeding difficult to do, given the extreme complexity of the criticisms of Law and Deity which I am attempting to set forth.
Thank you for all of your resistance and, comments, which have spurred me to grow...
Duane
The answer for you is the same as for anyone else: humility. This is a hard road especially for someone who really in some things has some apparent advantages over others around him and is unable to admit how limited he really is. Because of your apparent gifts you may understand why Jesus spoke as he did in the verse I quoted. People do like to be better than others, or at least to be seen as better by others. It would be an extremely unusual man who did not. It would take a very unusual man to knowingly humble himself as Jesus did. I think you can also understand that.
"Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself." Phil 2:3
Jesus, the man of flesh with temptations/attractions the same as each of us [Heb 4:15] resisted the way of suffering and death which was before him:
"And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39
We see the temptations of flesh like unto our own working in him yet... after repeating the above words or prayer or supplication to his Father three times he did go on to the cross. In another place he confirms that he did not have to do what he did:
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." John 10:18
You say you cannot embrace him as your God because of where or what you see yourself as being compared to him. Does humility count in your understanding? I understand that you may not believe as I and others here do, but consider the humility presented in the gospel story. Consider here how Jesus answers Pontius Pilate, the Roman Governor:
"Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." John 19:10-11
The story of a man really doing that, never mind all of the stories of miraculous healings, does catch one's attention. Even if you don't believe it happened as it was written, the whole idea is rather amazing, is it not? You have your own "pipe dream", as I named it, but here is something, which if true, is certainly greater than your dream. Jesus himself spoke of even "greater works" than those he had done being done by those who believed on him.
I called your dream, a "pipe dream" because even if you were absolutely sincere and were to put into it all that you have to attain your goal, men would prevent it. That is the way of men. They also thought that they prevented the purposes of Jesus, but they had no idea that God was for the opposition.
On my side, along with those who also believe in what Jesus said, it is not me alone, for Jesus also said that for men it is "impossible" while "with God all things are possible" [Mark 10:27].
You have faith in yourself to work toward your impossible goal. You are student enough of history to know that you are not the first one to try to really improve the society of men for all men by their own efforts. It has not succeeded before even though some of those men were likely as able as you. Too many people are on the other side and I am Not talking about followers of Jesus!
What I am saying to you is that there really is a better way which begins with humility and, yes, faith. You do have faith, but is as I see it, misplaced or misdirected. You may be able to succeed in the eyes of men in some things, but you will never attain fully to making your stated dream into a reality. You could attain however to the greater works of which Jesus spoke, but for you it would mean starting at the very beginning.
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Amadeus;
I am only able to describe in writing the actual inability of law and punishment to constitute civilization and explain why law in combination with punishment is not a path to human civilization, and, describe what the correct path is. I have written said descriptions and placed them on various forums. (A police forum and an attorney forum banned me immediately and absolutely will not, cannot, countenance rational critique of the jurisprudential weltanschauung.) Writing description of a civilization structured in keeping with our human ontological structure, instead of our current attempt at civilization via going against our being, is the most I can do; I cannot implement civilization via reflective human ontological freedom, I can only sketch it.
I completely appreciate your radically kind imputations of ability to me and your encouragements. That you took the time to write your latest beautiful encouragement is one of the finest exhibitions of Christian love I have ever experienced.
Duane
I think that I understand. You make the sketch and present it so that hopefully someone, or some group, will take hold of it as their outline to fix, improve or replace that which is already in place. I agree that many things are in need of change for the benefit of everyone. Hopefully something positive for our society will be accomplished by your efforts... even if it is less than what you would like to see.
Again your lack of more specific response to my words regarding my own beliefs indicates that at least at the moment you are not being led this way. I and others are here ready to help in ways that we can with regard to the things and Way of God. I will keep you in my prayers.
Indeed, and it is interesting to live. My understanding of Deity is a simple hierarchical notion in which that which is higher than one's self is deity; and, I know it appears absurd and ridiculous to say that I am deity, although, in so far as I have mastered understanding regarding how we humans tick, which is much more accurate than that of Jehovah, and can critique His central belief in Law, to that extent I possess higher knowledge/deity.
This is meant for Amadeus (the website did not appear to work properly):
Exactly, I sketch in hope of future realization and action by others.
I do have a question for you regarding one scripture you mentioned: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." John 19:10-11
Am I correct in thinking that "...he that delivered me unto thee..." is a reference to God the Father, and, thus, that Jesus is saying that God the Father hath sin? That would be radically heavy. I do not think Christ is referring to the Pharisees//Sadducees here...
Duane
Exactly, I sketch in hope of future realization and action by others.
I do have a question for you regarding one scripture you mentioned: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." John 19:10-11
Am I correct in thinking that "...he that delivered me unto thee..." is a reference to God the Father, and, thus, that Jesus is saying that God the Father hath sin? That would be radically heavy. I do not think Christ is referring to the Pharisees//Sadducees here...
Duane
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The considerations about how a human act arises actually means a tremendous earthshaking amount, don't kid yourself.
Amadeus;
Exactly, I sketch in hope of future realization and action by others.
I do have a question for you regarding one scripture you mentioned: Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin." John 19:10-11
Am I correct in thinking that "...he that delivered me unto thee..." is a reference to God the Father, and, thus, that Jesus is saying that God the Father hath sin? That would be radically heavy. I do not think Christ is referring to the Pharisees//Sadducees here...
Duane
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