Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[David in NJ]

I’m not sure how many times we can over this but this has been answered before they are killed “B“ during the thousand years. You have also been told what the pit actually is.

The beast is a demonic being influencing nations and their leaders just like we see demonic beings influencing nations in Daniel chapter 10.

The beast is allowed to come out of the abyss for a purpose just like the beast destroys Babylon the great for Gods purpose in Revelation chapter 17. For the beast to be in the abyss means that God put it in there in the first place

The pit is a spiritual condition as the great chain is the power of the gospel that spirituality binds satan from deceiving the nations (those who believe in the gospel) because the gospel reveals the truth of Jesus. Thus satan can be in the pit during the thousand years and also deceive those who don’t have the gospel.

The thousand years startEd at the cross and resurrection. The beast comes out of the abyss and enters Nero who persecutes the church is then judged and sent to the lake of fire.

The pit is a spiritual condition as the great chain is the power of the gospel that spirituality binds satan from deceiving the nations

Not good my Brother @Marty fox

Satan is a spirit and the prison GOD has Prepared and Planned for him was created where our natural eyes cannot see.
It is as REAL as the nose on our faces = DO NOT cut off your nose in despite of TRUTH

Rev 2
To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
9I know your affliction and your poverty—though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan.
10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test
you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword.

I know where you live, = where the throne of Satan sits, yet you hold fast to My name.
You did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of My faithful witness Antipas,
who was killed among you where Satan dwells

 

[David in NJ]

He thinks he did but he got himself because he cannot tell the difference between X, and Y being spawned form X, so fails to notice the words "spawned from" the way Amils always fail to notice whatever words in scripture they choose not to notice. His mind has been trained by his faith in Amil doctrine.

thus my pun

i get a real good lol when they think they can get one over on the words of God = not my words = His Word

 

[Davidpt]

According to Peter, Christ is seated at the right hand, in heaven, UNTIL ALL his enemies are defeated. Paul adds, that the last enemy is death. And again, according to Peter, Christ is in heaven UNTIL the restoration of all things.

That means that locationally, Christ is in heaven during the millennium, IF Satan is still is not fully defeated, and IF death is not fully destroyed, and IF the restoration of all things has not fully occurred.

And in my view, but maybe not according to all Premils, even when He returns and is eventually seen fulfilling Revelation 20:11-15, regardless when that is meaning, He is still seated at the right hand, except He is no longer bodily in heaven at that point. 1 Corinthians 15:28 has to be when He is no longer seated at the right hand. In the meantime there indeed can be a millennium, followed by a little season, followed by a great white throne judgment, post that of His bodily return.

If Premil has satan's little season meaning after Christ returns, obviously death can't have been defeated at Christ's return. That assuming Premil is correct to place the little season there.

You seem to argue that He has to be seated at the right hand during the millennium, which I 100% agree with you about. Except you appear to be arguing He has to be in heaven during the millennium. I'm arguing that He doesn't have to still be in heaven during the millennium, and that He is still seated at the right hand, regardless. That it is not until 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled after the great white throne judgment being when He is no longer seated at the right hand.

Obviously, when He leaves heaven He is no longer bodily in heaven. Obviously, He is still seated at the right hand even though He has left heaven, the fact the great white throne judgment has to be fulfilled before that position is no longer needed. That alone proves He is not required to only be bodily in heaven in order to be seated at the right hand. And that it is not reasonable that He is no longer seated at the right hand because He bodily leaves heaven. It's only reasonable that He is no longer seated at the right hand once 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fulfilled after the great white throne judgment.

Therefore, even if He bodily leaves heaven, His role as being seated at the right hand is not about location---it’s about the position of supreme authority He holds. And until all things are finally restored(Matthew 19:28, Acts 3:20-21), that position remains active. And in order to even fulfill Matthew 19:28 He has to bodily leave heaven first. That verse then equals this in Acts 3:21---the times of restitution of all things

 

[David in NJ]

And in my view, but maybe not according to all Premils, even when He returns and is eventually sitting on the throne depicted in Revelation 20:11-15, regardless when that is meaning, He is still seated at the right hand, except He is no longer bodily in heaven at that point. 1 Corithians 15:28 has to be when He is no longer seated at the right hand. In the meantime there indeed can be a millennium, followed by a little season, followed by a great white throne judgment, post that of His bodily return.

If Premil has satan's little season meaning after Christ returns, obviously death can't have been defeated at Christ's return. That assuming Premil is correct to place the little season there.

You seem to argue that He has to be seated at the right hand during the millennium, which I 100% agree with you about. Except you appear to be arguing He has to be in heaven during the millennium. I'm arguing that He doesn't have to still be in heaven during the millennium, and that He is still seated at the right hand, regardless. That it is not until 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled after the great white throne judgment being when He is no longer seated at the right hand.

SIMPLE

so simple a child can understand

 

[Marty fox]

Not good my Brother @Marty fox

Satan is a spirit and the prison GOD has Prepared and Planned for him was created where our natural eyes cannot see.
It is as REAL as the nose on our faces = DO NOT cut off your nose in despite of TRUTH

Rev 2
To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
9I know your affliction and your poverty—though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan.
10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test
you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword.

I know where you live, = where the throne of Satan sits, yet you hold fast to My name.
You did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of My faithful witness Antipas,
who was killed among you where Satan dwells

So a sp

Not good my Brother @Marty fox

Satan is a spirit and the prison GOD has Prepared and Planned for him was created where our natural eyes cannot see.
It is as REAL as the nose on our faces = DO NOT cut off your nose in despite of TRUTH

Rev 2
To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
9I know your affliction and your poverty—though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan.
10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test
you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword.

I know where you live, = where the throne of Satan sits, yet you hold fast to My name.
You did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of My faithful witness Antipas,
who was killed among you where Satan dwells

The abyss is different than the bottomless pit?

A bottomless pit is impossible if literal that would make it a hole

 

[David in NJ]

So a sp


The abyss is different than the bottomless pit?

A bottomless pit is impossible if literal that would make it a hole

The abyss and bottomless pit is a spiritual location then "bottomless" is actuated by the Creator = Colossians 1:15-18

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[Marty fox]

The abyss and bottomless pit is a spiritual location then "bottomless" is actuated by the Creator = Colossians 1:15-18

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers.
All things were created through Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

So then does Jesus reign because satan is bound?

 

[David in NJ]

So then does Jesus reign because satan is bound?

The Answer is Found at the Beginning = Genesis

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

And the Word(that was God) became Flesh = JESUS

His Reign over Satan and Sin = Matthew 4:1-11

His Reign over Death = Cross to His Resurrection to His Ascension back to the THRONE

His Reign over Creation, His Church, Satan and his angels/rulers of this Age = All of Revelation, especially ch1 and ch5

When, and only when the LORD Returns/2nd Coming, does HE enact Judgment/Wrath upon AC/Satan and then Locks Satan up.


1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 = Revelation ch19 and 20:1-6
2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 = Revelation 19:11-21 , 20:1-6

IMPORTANT = the HOLY SPIRIT Repeated this TRUTH = 2nd Thessalonians 2:5

verse 5 = "Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

 

[Marty fox]

The Answer is Found at the Beginning = Genesis

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

And the Word(that was God) became Flesh = JESUS

His Reign over Satan and Sin = Matthew 4:1-11

His Reign over Death = Cross to His Resurrection to His Ascension back to the THRONE

His Reign over Creation, His Church, Satan and his angels/rulers of this Age = All of Revelation, especially ch1 and ch5

When, and only when the LORD Returns/2nd Coming, does HE enact Judgment/Wrath upon AC/Satan and then Locks Satan up.


1st Thessalonians 4:13-18 = Revelation ch19 and 20:1-6
2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 = Revelation 19:11-21 , 20:1-6

IMPORTANT = the HOLY SPIRIT Repeated this TRUTH = 2nd Thessalonians 2:5

verse 5 = "Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

Yes, Jesus reigns because He is God.

Then if the binding is literal, how come satan has to be bound for the saints to reign with Jesus? That gives satan power over the saints

 

[Davidpt]

So a sp


The abyss is different than the bottomless pit?

A bottomless pit is impossible if literal that would make it a hole

Why do you assume it describes it as bottomless to begin with? What is the point being made, where it needs to describe it as bottomless? If meaning something spiritual, why bottomless?

 

[Marty fox]

Why do you assume it describes it as bottomless to begin with? What is the point being made, where it needs to describe it as bottomless? If meaning something spiritual, why bottomless?

It is described as a bottomless pit which if literal is impossible that would be a hole. Putting satan in a hole is pointless because anyone can go through a hole.

A bottomless pit is a spiritual condition that you can’t get out of there’s no repentance the unforgivable sin

 

[Zao is life]

Not good my Brother @Marty fox

Satan is a spirit and the prison GOD has Prepared and Planned for him was created where our natural eyes cannot see.
It is as REAL as the nose on our faces = DO NOT cut off your nose in despite of TRUTH

Rev 2
To the angel of the church in Smyrna write:

These are the words of the First and the Last, who died and returned to life.
9I know your affliction and your poverty—though you are rich! And I am aware of the slander of those who falsely claim to be Jews, but are in fact a synagogue of Satan.
10Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test
you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.

To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
These are the words of the One who holds the sharp, double-edged sword.

I know where you live, = where the throne of Satan sits, yet you hold fast to My name.
You did not deny your faith in Me, even in the days of My faithful witness Antipas,
who was killed among you where Satan dwells

@Marty fox

The Word of God vs
The words of Satan.

The Word of God is omnipotent (John 1:1-4), omniscient and by the Spirit, omnipresent. Life is in Him (John 1:4).

Satan is none of those things. He is not "the opposite of God" just because he sets himself up in opposition to God.

Nor do his words have any power until his words are believed by human beings. Were his words not believed, he would have no power at all - ask Adam and Eve.

Believe me, there are many human beings who have continued to believe his words since the resurrection and ascension of Christ, till now. That's why Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world"; and Paul called him "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience" (Ephesians 2:2), who we are told will give the beast and false prophet his seat, power and great authority (Revelation Chapter 13).

That's why the saints are warned to be weary of his wiles and to resist him, and to put on the full armor of God because "we do not wrestle against flesh and blood" (John 12:31; 1 Peter 5:8-9; Ephesians 6:11-12; Revelation 2:9-10 & Revelation 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 2:18; James 4:7 ).

Revelation Chapters 12-13 portray this current status quo as spanning the entire present Age and culminating in the beast's war against the saints in Revelation Chapter 13 (see Revelation 13:7).

Ephesians 2:2 tells us about Satan's influence over the societies of this world, this Age. So how can he be bound from deceiving the nations? Where is this "inability" of Satan to deceive the nations through his words which set themselves up in opposition to the Word of God that you speak of? He has that ability for as long as human beings give his lies that power by rejecting the Word of God and believing Satan's lies - until God binds him and throws him into the abyss and sets a seal on him.

Also, why do you believe Satan is the opposite of God in power and ability so that he would need to be bound in order for the Holy Spirit's power to be able to work in the hearts and minds of human beings calling them to salvation in Christ through the gospel? Isn't that assertion blasphemous? Satan has no power to stop the works of God and the work of the Holy Spirit calling individuals to salvation in Christ.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, Jesus reigns because He is God.

Then if the binding is literal, how come satan has to be bound for the saints to reign with Jesus? That gives satan power over the saints

That gives satan power over the saints

Satan is not bound in prison today and has never been placed in the prison of Rev 20:1-3 = but soon he will

Satan does not have authority over us as we are in CHRIST.

#1 - This does not mean that there is no battle and spiritual warfare against satan and his fallen angels = 2 Corinthians 10:4

#2 - Currently, Satan remains the "god of this world/Age" and as such he can and does attack blood washed saints of GOD

Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

Revelation 2:8-10
These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

Daniel 7:25
He shall speak pompous words against the Most High, Shall persecute the saints of the Most High, And shall intend to change times and law. Then the saints shall be given into his hand For a time and times and half a time.

 

[claninja]

And in my view, but maybe not according to all Premils, even when He returns and is eventually seen fulfilling Revelation 20:11-15, regardless when that is meaning, He is still seated at the right hand, except He is no longer bodily in heaven at that point. 1 Corinthians 15:28 has to be when He is no longer seated at the right hand. In the meantime there indeed can be a millennium, followed by a little season, followed by a great white throne judgment, post that of His bodily return.

If Premil has satan's little season meaning after Christ returns, obviously death can't have been defeated at Christ's return. That assuming Premil is correct to place the little season there.

You seem to argue that He has to be seated at the right hand during the millennium, which I 100% agree with you about. Except you appear to be arguing He has to be in heaven during the millennium. I'm arguing that He doesn't have to still be in heaven during the millennium, and that He is still seated at the right hand, regardless. That it is not until 1 Corinthians 15:28 is fulfilled after the great white throne judgment being when He is no longer seated at the right hand.

Obviously, when He leaves heaven He is no longer bodily in heaven. Obviously, He is still seated at the right hand even though He has left heaven, the fact the great white throne judgment has to be fulfilled before that position is no longer needed. That alone proves He is not required to only be bodily in heaven in order to be seated at the right hand. And that it is not reasonable that He is no longer seated at the right hand because He bodily leaves heaven. It's only reasonable that He is no longer seated at the right hand once 1 Corinthians 15:28 has been fulfilled after the great write throne judgment.

Therefore, even if He bodily leaves heaven, His role as being seated at the right hand is not about location---it’s about the position of supreme authority He holds. And until all things are finally restored(Matthew 19:28, Acts 3:20-21), that position remains active. And in order to even fulfill Matthew 19:28 He has to bodily leave heaven first. That verse then equals this in Acts 3:21---the times of restitution of all things

according to revelation 20, heaven and earth pass away AFTER the millennium. According to Peter, the heaven and earth pass away on the day of the Lord, with which he associates the coming of Christ (2 Peter 3:4,12).

As far as it goes locationally, the gospels and epistles heavily associate Christ’s being seated at the right hand as being in heaven. I can’t find one passage that associates Christ seated at the right hand as being associated locationally with on earth.

• Mark 16:19 – “So then the Lord Jesus… was taken up into heaven and sat down at the right hand of God.”
• Acts 2:34-35 – “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, ‘Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.’”
• Acts 3:21 – “[Jesus] whom heaven must receive until the time for restoring all things…”
• Ephesians 1:20 – “[God] raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly realms.”
• 1 Peter 3:22 – “[Christ] has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers subject to Him.”
• Hebrews 8:1 – “We have such a high priest, one who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in heaven.”
• Hebrews 10:12-13 – “But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet.

All that being said , revelation states the beast and false prophet are defeated pre millennium, the defeat of Satan and death are post millennium, and the passing away of heavens and earth are post millennium.

On the other hand, The epistles state Christ is seated at the right hand, which is overwhelmingly emphasized as in heaven, until ALL enemies are made a footstool, the last being death, AND until the restitution of all things, which also includes the passing away of heaven and earth.

This is still a problem you have not addressed along with the zero NT passages demonstrating the restitution of all things is interrupted by Satan, and it’s premils Achilles heal, imho. though it seems you attempted to reconcile it by claiming sitting at the right hand can also mean on earth, though you’ve provided zero biblical evidence for this……

 

[claninja]

Obviously. Why would you feel the need to make such an obvious point as that? That's why there is such a thing as Premillennialism. They assume what is described in Revelation 19 and 20 is all chronological. But, it should also be obvious to everyone that not everything in the book is chronological. The most obvious example of that is Revelation 11 and 12.

Right, it should be obvious, but then again you have the OP here trying to argue a literal chronological order for revelation in attempt to disprove amil………

 

[David in NJ]

It is described as a bottomless pit which if literal is impossible that would be a hole. Putting satan in a hole is pointless because anyone can go through a hole.

A bottomless pit is a spiritual condition that you can’t get out of there’s no repentance the unforgivable sin

bottomless means = can NEVER get out

perceive the implications of "bottomless"

 

[claninja]

"generic response" = lol x100

keep em coming for you are making some real good lol = thank you

a sound, fruit of the spirit response. I would expect nothing less.

 

[David in NJ]

a sound, fruit of the spirit response. I would expect nothing less.

Thanks for demonstrating that with your generic response that provides no evidence for your own position nor addresses anything i posted.

Does that sound familiar!!!

 

[claninja]

Thanks for demonstrating that with your generic response that provides no evidence for your own position nor addresses anything i posted.

Does that sound familiar!!!

You are most welcome.

Though, You have made several claims towards me without providing explanations nor evidence to back those claims. So there is nothing for me to respond to specifically, therefore, of course my response will be generic.

 

[David in NJ]

You are most welcome.

Though, You have made several claims towards me without providing explanations nor evidence to back those claims. So there is nothing for me to respond to specifically, therefore, of course my response will be generic.

In your post that i responded to you excused/denied the REALITY of Matthew 19:28-30

The pattern of denying/excusing or just doubting clear Truth spoken by God is the framework by which all false doctrines are generated.