Let's examine Revelation 20:4 yet again.

[Spiritual Israelite]

I agree. But Jesus did not crush "all things" under His feet. He just inherited ALL the AUTHORITY to crush ALL THINGS. But the actual fulfillment of "crushing" he, that had the power of death. And that wasn't Satan it was the devil; "him that had the power of death the devil" Heb 2:14

Satan is the devil.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

 

[Hillsage]

Very interesting stuff and I appreciate you sharing it. Well, what may be known of God is written in creation, which includes the stars. Astrology takes it too far though, and doesn't glorify God.

Astrology simply means "star study". The stars were made for "SIGNS" in Genesis 1:14. Each of the 12 tribes had a star SIGN or constellation representing them? But their true representation got paganized just like the true first church of the apostles got Paganized.

Don't fear ASTROLOGY or the MAZZOROTH. Do call out the horror of the HOROSCOPE

Hopefully this is the last word on this because I have so much more I could say.

 

[Hillsage]

Satan is the devil.

Matthew 4:8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

Revelation 12:9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

I know those verses. What do you do with these two?

2SA 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1CH 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Are these two JEHOVAH/SATAN also one? Just curious, are you a Fundamentalist?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I know those verses. What do you do with these two?

You know those verses, which explicitly indicate that Satan is the devil, but you'd rather just ignore them? They clearly show that Satan is the devil. So, why not accept that? Do you instead take those verses out of your Bible?

2SA 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

1CH 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

Are these two JEHOVAH/SATAN also one?

Are you aware that God is able to use the wicked, including Satan, for His purposes when He wants to?

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17 For God has put it into their hearts to fulfill His purpose, to be of one mind, and to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.

Does context mean nothing to you? The context of the verses I showed is very clear. They show that the devil and Satan are one and the same. These verses you quoted show that the way that God moved David against Israel was by influencing Satan to provoke David to do so. God used Satan to test Job, also. He can do that kind of thing any time He wants to.

Just curious, are you a Fundamentalist?

Define Fundamentalist. Terms like that are often defined differently by different people, so tell me how you define it and then I'll answer your question.

 

[Lizbeth]

I agree. But Jesus did not crush "all things" under His feet. He just inherited ALL the AUTHORITY to crush ALL THINGS. But the actual fulfillment of "crushing" he, that had the power of death. And that wasn't Satan it was the devil; "him that had the power of death the devil" Heb 2:14 is left for 'the body of Christos, which is not seated in heaven where Jesus is. But it is still upon earth and it is our job to now be "destroying every rule and every authority and power." 1Cor 15:26 And we are to do that before "then the end comes" 1Cor 15:24. Then Jesus will, upon His return; receive....."The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord (Jesus) and of His Christ (US who are overcomers)," Rev 11:15.

Jesus never had ALL AUTHORITY over death until AFTER his resurrection.

PHI 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 THEREFORE God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

MAT 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Many believers claim, because of this verse above that THEY HAVE ALL AUTHORITY. Not true. Jesus has it and gives it to US when we are confessing HIS INSPIRED words with our mouths.




LUK 4:5 And the devil took him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time,
6 and said to him, "To you I will give all this authority and their glory; for it has been delivered to me, and I give it to whom I will. 8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, SATAN: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.



I'm just going to stop here. We see a few things a bit differently. One rabbit hole at a time here.

There seems to more than one rabbit hole here......I would like to try and parse them all one by one, but I just dont have the stamina right now..

Maybe I can just comment on this for now:

<< King Satan's KINGDOM has many lessor KINGDOMS in it. And the devil offered them to Jesus in the Garden. Jesus never received them. Jesus wasn't after KINGDOMS....he was after the AUTHORITY of the KING....of ALL KINGDOMS. IMO. >>

I am not sure Jesus was after anything but to obey the Father, you know..? And He wasn't about to trade in His eternal birthright for a bowl of stew that could only satisfy the flesh, and that only temporarily.

 

[Lizbeth]

Astrology simply means "star study". The stars were made for "SIGNS" in Genesis 1:14. Each of the 12 tribes had a star SIGN or constellation representing them? But their true representation got paganized just like the true first church of the apostles got Paganized.

Don't fear ASTROLOGY or the MAZZOROTH. Do call out the horror of the HOROSCOPE

Hopefully this is the last word on this because I have so much more I could say.

I dont' fear Astrology, but I do fear the Lord. He may have used the stars to speak to fallen man a long time ago but it is not the means He uses today. If we keep trying to consume what has passed its expiry date, it will be rotten and decayed. Like the manna that the Lord commanded the Israelites only to eat the day it fell from heaven. I have noticed that when the Lord is no longer ordaining a thing, it becomes rotten and perverse. We no longer need to look to temporal created things to find out about God, because we have the Holy Spirit and He is available to all who are willing to receive Christ.

 

[Hillsage]

There seems to more than one rabbit hole here......I would like to try and parse them all one by one, but I just dont have the stamina right now..

I agree, way too many. That's why I really don't like to deal with so many who never learned to go down a rabbit hole and then get out taking what is truly profitable. Too many here are still living in their rabbit holes bound by the 'religious spirit' that pulled them in. IMO.

Maybe I can just comment on this for now:

<< King Satan's KINGDOM has many lessor KINGDOMS in it. And the devil offered them to Jesus in the Garden. Jesus never received them. Jesus wasn't after KINGDOMS....he was after the AUTHORITY of the KING....of ALL KINGDOMS. IMO. >>

I am not sure Jesus was after anything but to obey the Father, you know..? And He wasn't about to trade in His eternal birthright for a bowl of stew that could only satisfy the flesh, and that only temporarily.

I think obeying the Father was His priority. And knowing from the old covenant what His calling (eternal birthright) in the New covenant was TRULY about....included US.

We are one with Him, and in Him just as He is one. with/in the Father seated as the "KING/Jesus of KINGS"/US. And WE are on this earth to EARN back the KINGDOMS of this WORLD with His authority imparted unto us.. We do that as "KINGS" whose KINGDOMS are under his over all KING-ship of all things .

 

[Hillsage]

I dont' fear Astrology, but I do fear the Lord. He may have used the stars to speak to fallen man a long time ago but it is not the means He uses today. If we keep trying to consume what has passed its expiry date, it will be rotten and decayed. Like the manna that the Lord commanded the Israelites only to eat the day it fell from heaven. I have noticed that when the Lord is no longer ordaining a thing, it becomes rotten and perverse. We no longer need to look to temporal created things to find out about God, because we have the Holy Spirit and He is available to all who are willing to receive Christ.

Have you thrown out the OT? (I know you haven't) I have not, I still read it. But not under "expiry date" of the bondage of Old Covenant LAW. Too many here may be 'born again' FREE, but they are not FREE and FREE INDEED.

JOH 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Two different Greek words for TRUTH.
JOH 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Tow different Greek words for FREE.

There's no one here in my opinion that understands the above verses. Especially when read IN CONTEXT with the verse between,.....but that's another rabbit hole too.

JOH 8:34* Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

 

[Lizbeth]

Astrology simply means "star study". The stars were made for "SIGNS" in Genesis 1:14. Each of the 12 tribes had a star SIGN or constellation representing them? But their true representation got paganized just like the true first church of the apostles got Paganized.

Don't fear ASTROLOGY or the MAZZOROTH. Do call out the horror of the HOROSCOPE

Hopefully this is the last word on this because I have so much more I could say.

"Signs" as in signposts, as in navigation for travel, and to mark the seasons? Because the stars are reliable and predictable and their courses (ways) are unchanging? That sounds like He who created them, He who changes not, who we look to for guidance and navigation through life and that through Him we might know the "seasons". In this way they certainly are a sign of Almighty God and speak forth, uttering speech night after night, telling us of His characteristics.....because what may be known of God is seen in creation.

Do we see in scripture where the Lord assigned a star sign to each of the twelve tribes? I can't think of any scripture where He did this....?

Where do we see the Lord instructing Israel to study the stars? On the contrary, He condemns that practice and tells Israel not to do as the pagans do. Don't you think Israel had been influenced by the Egyptians after 400 years of captivity there and God being silent? And later they were heavily influenced by Babylon......and Talmudic and Kabbalah Judaism still is. From the time of the Exodus on, God had revealed Himself and was speaking to Israel...what need had they to look to the stars or anything else but Him? To me it just goes to show how people without the Lord in any era are LOST (in space, drifting, grasping at straws/stars). God may have overlooked it for a time, forbearing with mankind's ignorance of Him, but not any more....now He commands all people everywhere to repent of such. Jesus even chastised the Jews for seeking "signs"...but none was given to them, except the sign of Jonah. And He chastised them for not recognizing the "season" of His coming. On the other hand, I think God excused the Magi because they did not yet know the Lord but were at least seeking Him, and as we know even gave them a "star" (sign) to navigate and guide them to Him, unlike the Jews who had long history with the Lord and His Word and so were without excuse really.

 

[Lizbeth]

I agree, way too many. That's why I really don't like to deal with so many who never learned to go down a rabbit hole and then get out taking what is truly profitable. Too many here are still living in their rabbit holes bound by the 'religious spirit' that pulled them in. IMO.

I think obeying the Father was His priority. And knowing from the old covenant what His calling (eternal birthright) in the New covenant was TRULY about....included US.

We are one with Him, and in Him just as He is one. with/in the Father seated as the "KING/Jesus of KINGS"/US. And WE are on this earth to EARN back the KINGDOMS of this WORLD with His authority imparted unto us.. We do that as "KINGS" whose KINGDOMS are under his over all KING-ship of all things .

Only as we abide in the Vine do we partake of its life-giving sap (blood). We have nothing of our own....without Him we can do nothing.

To my understanding His Body on earth is "a kingdom" of priests. Only one kingdom. But men want to be kings and are seen building their own little kingdoms/empires using His name. Jesus refused to be made a king when the people tried to crown Him by force......He fled the temptation. It is only BECAUSE Jesus refused the exaltation to kingship and obeyed the Father's will in choosing the way of the cross and its humiliation instead, that the Father afterward rewarded Him with a crown/kingship. Kind of the paradoxical or ironic ways of God, His ways are upside down from man's ways.

 

[Lizbeth]

Have you thrown out the OT? (I know you haven't) I have not, I still read it. But not under "expiry date" of the bondage of Old Covenant LAW. Too many here may be 'born again' FREE, but they are not FREE and FREE INDEED.

JOH 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Two different Greek words for TRUTH.
JOH 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Tow different Greek words for FREE.

There's no one here in my opinion that understands the above verses. Especially when read IN CONTEXT with the verse between,.....but that's another rabbit hole too.

JOH 8:34* Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

No I sure haven't thrown out the OT, it is instructive for our inner man when it is used properly (ie, in the new way of the Spirit) and speaks to the gospel in types/shadows, and not to mention it glorifies God. But to the Jews the old covenant has become a snare and a trap. and makes them fall backwards...because God isn't doing that any more. He is no longer in it and ordaining it. No life in it for them any more....it is decaying and rotting, and become toxic.....they need to look for the fresh new manna of the new covenant. The Lord even instructed them in the OT to forget the former things, because He was going to do a new thing and of course Jeremiah speaks explicitly of a new covenant.

And thank you, I will look up the John 8 definitions, it sounds enlightening.

 

[Hillsage]

"Signs" as in signposts, as in navigation for travel, and to mark the seasons? Because the stars are reliable and predictable and their courses (ways) are unchanging? That sounds like He who created them, He who changes not, who we look to for guidance and navigation through life and that through Him we might know the "seasons". In this way they certainly are a sign of Almighty God and speak forth, uttering speech night after night, telling us of His characteristics.....because what may be known of God is seen in creation.

Do we see in scripture where the Lord assigned a star sign to each of the twelve tribes? I can't think of any scripture where He did this....?

Where do we see the Lord instructing Israel to study the stars? On the contrary, He condemns that practice and tells Israel not to do as the pagans do. Don't you think Israel had been influenced by the Egyptians after 400 years of captivity there and God being silent? And later they were heavily influenced by Babylon......and Talmudic and Kabbalah Judaism still is. From the time of the Exodus on, God had revealed Himself and was speaking to Israel...what need had they to look to the stars or anything else but Him? To me it just goes to show how people without the Lord in any era are LOST (in space, drifting, grasping at straws/stars). God may have overlooked it for a time, forbearing with mankind's ignorance of Him, but not any more....now He commands all people everywhere to repent of such. Jesus even chastised the Jews for seeking "signs"...but none was given to them, except the sign of Jonah. And He chastised them for not recognizing the "season" of His coming. On the other hand, I think God excused the Magi because they did not yet know the Lord but were at least seeking Him, and as we know even gave them a "star" (sign) to navigate and guide them to Him, unlike the Jews who had long history with the Lord and His Word and so were without excuse really.

Simply your opinion based upon never having studied what I have....along with whoever here, some posts back, told me to read EW Bullinger's 216 page book "The Witness of the Stars". But I'm not going to. I am glad I did study the subject when I was younger though.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork" (Ps. 19:1).

 

[Hillsage]

No I sure haven't thrown out the OT, it is instructive for our inner man when it is used properly (ie, in the new way of the Spirit) and speaks to the gospel in types/shadows, and not to mention it glorifies God.

Sounds like we're in agreement there......concerning the Constellations.

But to the Jews the old covenant has become a snare and a trap. and makes them fall backwards...because God isn't doing that any more. He is no longer in it and ordaining it. No life in it for them any more....it is decaying and rotting, and become toxic.....they need to look for the fresh new manna of the new covenant. The Lord even instructed them in the OT to forget the former things, because He was going to do a new thing and of course Jeremiah speaks explicitly of a new covenant.

And thank you, I will look up the John 8 definitions, it sounds enlightening.

We are probably so far off topic already, it might be time to move on.

 

[Lizbeth]

Simply your opinion based upon never having studied what I have....along with whoever here, some posts back, told me to read EW Bullinger's 216 page book "The Witness of the Stars". But I'm not going to. I am glad I did study the subject when I was younger though.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork" (Ps. 19:1).

I was just discussing and trying to express one possible aspect...yes just an opinion, not well expressed and I was forgetting that I do agree and believe the stars are one way the Lord told the story as a witness to the plan of redemption. (lol, getting old) And I don't doubt it is one thing God and the apostle had in mind with the scripture that says mankind is without excuse because what may be known of God can be seen in creation.

 

[Lizbeth]

Sounds like we're in agreement there......concerning the Constellations.

Yes, I agree.

And would you agree with the following...? Because "Astrology" is such a widespread and endemic form of idolatry around the globe, leading many souls to perdition, I think it's important that nobody be careless or dismissive about this subject. God condemns such practices, because it brings death/destruction to those who drink of that well. I'm just not doing a very good of job of expressing and drawing the line between simply observing what God has written in the stars and idolizing those stars. "Burning incense" to the stars and planets and other heavenly bodies is condemned by the Lord and means one is lifting up their soul to created things, which is idolatry. Burning incense signifies prayer, which is a form of lifting up one's soul......we must only lift up our soul/pray to the Living God. (And I believe "lifting up one's soul" in scripture is a way of expressing looking to, relying on, drawing one's sustenance and guidance from.)

 

[Lizbeth]

We are probably so far off topic already, it might be time to move on.

Maybe we can beg a little forebearance for just a tiny bit more on this...? I would like to know if we are in agreement about the idolatry part, or how you see it.

 

[Hillsage]

Maybe we can beg a little forebearance for just a tiny bit more on this...? I would like to know if we are in agreement about the idolatry part, or how you see it.

I wrote a typed, 2 page, article for our local newspaper (The Garden City Telegram) 20+- years ago. I did so when something big hit the nation (???). It was drawing concern (and fighting) between those who were for the HOROSCOPE predictions in the paper and the "Christian's" who were fighting against them. They were very short comments in the "Public Pulse" column, which had lasted for several weeks. All I ever read was bullheaded 'bad fruit' bilaterally. My article, in the "Letters to the Editor" column my big article would draw a big response (Chosen by 'the editor') and intended to address all reading a hot "Public Pulse", but also drawing a lot more of the interest of the whole city. I was a Christian doctor in my hometown of 25,0000 for 20+- years. I was biblically defending the origins of Astrology and Zodiac as having been good and 'of God' originally. Whereas, the later paganization into the HOROSCOPE would be understood to have 'not been of God'. My aim was to intrigue and draw those who used, and KNEW how uncannily accurate horoscopes can be. HOROSCOPES have that 'quantifiable' effect because of the God factor behind them. But horoscopes are not of God. They are an attempt to steal something from God by making it a replacement for trust our futures in and with the leading of God. Horoscopes don't encourage being led by Him. They encourage being led by influential powers which were FROM Him originally, and are still working today.

We, as "Christian...NOT!!!" bulls, too often come charging in with a STOP sign attitude slammed in the face of those who are simply 'deceived and have had their minds taken captive by the devil' (2Tim 2:26). So it often ends with a 'fight attitude' fruit, instead of a seeking for truth attitude. Too often, both sides really just loose. Same thing happens here IMO. Armchair theologians thinking way to highly of themselves and way to shallow concerning true spirituality. Hope that answer satisfies.

 

[Lizbeth]

I wrote a typed, 2 page, article for our local newspaper (The Garden City Telegram) 20+- years ago. I did so when something big hit the nation (???). It was drawing concern (and fighting) between those who were for the HOROSCOPE predictions in the paper and the "Christian's" who were fighting against them. They were very short comments in the "Public Pulse" column, which had lasted for several weeks. All I ever read was bullheaded 'bad fruit' bilaterally. My article, in the "Letters to the Editor" column my big article would draw a big response (Chosen by 'the editor') and intended to address all reading a hot "Public Pulse", but also drawing a lot more of the interest of the whole city. I was a Christian doctor in my hometown of 25,0000 for 20+- years. I was biblically defending the origins of Astrology and Zodiac as having been good and 'of God' originally. Whereas, the later paganization into the HOROSCOPE would be understood to have 'not been of God'. My aim was to intrigue and draw those who used, and KNEW how uncannily accurate horoscopes can be. HOROSCOPES have that 'quantifiable' effect because of the God factor behind them. But horoscopes are not of God. They are an attempt to steal something from God by making it a replacement for trust our futures in and with the leading of God. Horoscopes don't encourage being led by Him. They encourage being led by influential powers which were FROM Him originally, and are still working today.

We, as "Christian...NOT!!!" bulls, too often come charging in with a STOP sign attitude slammed in the face of those who are simply 'deceived and have had their minds taken captive by the devil' (2Tim 2:26). So it often ends with a 'fight attitude' fruit, instead of a seeking for truth attitude. Too often, both sides really just loose. Same thing happens here IMO. Armchair theologians thinking way to highly of themselves and way to shallow concerning true spirituality. Hope that answer satisfies.

Yes, I understand, thank you. The devil does like to pervert the things of God.

We as believers need to watch our attitudes, with one another and especially towards lost souls who generally "know not what they are doing", lest we bring the gospel into disrepute. I don't think it's our place to go to war with the lost over how they live, or with worldly institutions either. Our job is to share the gospel and the truth and let that do the changing of hearts and lives, for whosoever will. I can understand how it can get confusing in a place that is or has been culturally Christian though....easy to forget that our citizenship is not in this world. We see this happening with politics nowadays...too many believers are letting the flesh have the upper hand. Anyway, appreciate the dialogue on this.

 

[Hillsage]

Yes, I understand, thank you. The devil does like to pervert the things of God.

We as believers need to watch our attitudes, with one another and especially towards lost souls who generally "know not what they are doing", lest we bring the gospel into disrepute. I don't think it's our place to go to war with the lost over how they live, or with worldly institutions either. Our job is to share the gospel and the truth and let that do the changing of hearts and lives, for whosoever will. I can understand how it can get confusing in a place that is or has been culturally Christian though....easy to forget that our citizenship is not in this world. We see this happening with politics nowadays...too many believers are letting the flesh have the upper hand. Anyway, appreciate the dialogue on this.

The pharisees are a prime example of what you are saying, bold above. And it fits in to this very thread concerning the magi. The pharisees started out after the Maccabean wars. The Maccabees were a family of godly priests who were trying to fight against the pagan influences and occupation in Israel. The pharisees, which by name means "the separate", who were coming out of those wars were very godly and loyal to the Mosaic law...to the extent of even tithing on their herb garden along with fastings, Mondays and Thursdays etc. But what started out as holiness morphed after 200 years into religion and not a love for God. Like any sect whose religious emphasis is not motivated by compassion and love of God, the Pharisees concept of 'separation' made them more and more aloof and self-righteous toward their fellowman. When the Magi who were coming to WORSHIP He who was to be born to be King of the Jews. How did this work out?

MAT 2:2 "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him." 3* When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
4* and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:

These "chief priests" above, were the Pharisees. And rather than walk 6 miles to see if it was their Messiah, they ratted him out to Herod because they were all threatened with loosing their governmental and religious positions, in society. The Pagan Maji came 800 miles, saw and worshiped the King and Messiah. The Maji also heard the voice of God tell them to get the H-eck out of Israel.....along with the messiah and his parents. Sent them all to Pagan countries.

The lesson for US today???? More COMPASSION for the sinners and more PASSION for the GOOD NEWS GOSPEL. The first century had that COMPASSION and PASSION and took the gospel to the whole world.

COL 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel
6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing -- so among yourselves, from the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth,

COL 1:23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature UNDER HEAVEN, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

I wonder if the gospel being preached to everyone UNDER HEAVEN in this verse, relates to the gospel of the stars whiich preach without spoken words, and is really the gospel we should be thinking more about?

 

[Lizbeth]

The pharisees are a prime example of what you are saying, bold above. And it fits in to this very thread concerning the magi. The pharisees started out after the Maccabean wars. The Maccabees were a family of godly priests who were trying to fight against the pagan influences and occupation in Israel. The pharisees, which by name means "the separate", who were coming out of those wars were very godly and loyal to the Mosaic law...to the extent of even tithing on their herb garden along with fastings, Mondays and Thursdays etc. But what started out as holiness morphed after 200 years into religion and not a love for God. Like any sect whose religious emphasis is not motivated by compassion and love of God, the Pharisees concept of 'separation' made them more and more aloof and self-righteous toward their fellowman. When the Magi who were coming to WORSHIP He who was to be born to be King of the Jews. How did this work out?

MAT 2:2 "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him." 3* When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
4* and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
5 They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea; for so it is written by the prophet:

These "chief priests" above, were the Pharisees. And rather than walk 6 miles to see if it was their Messiah, they ratted him out to Herod because they were all threatened with loosing their governmental and religious positions, in society. The Pagan Maji came 800 miles, saw and worshiped the King and Messiah. The Maji also heard the voice of God tell them to get the H-eck out of Israel.....along with the messiah and his parents. Sent them all to Pagan countries.

The lesson for US today???? More COMPASSION for the sinners and more PASSION for the GOOD NEWS GOSPEL. The first century had that COMPASSION and PASSION and took the gospel to the whole world.

COL 1:5 because of the hope laid up for you in heaven. Of this you have heard before in the word of the truth, the gospel
6 which has come to you, as indeed in the whole world it is bearing fruit and growing -- so among yourselves, from the day you heard and understood the grace of God in truth,

COL 1:23 provided that you continue in the faith, stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which has been preached to every creature UNDER HEAVEN, and of which I, Paul, became a minister.

I wonder if the gospel being preached to everyone UNDER HEAVEN in this verse, relates to the gospel of the stars whiich preach without spoken words, and is really the gospel we should be thinking more about?

Yes, I think that could be what Paul was alluding to. And it might be one reason why everyone really knows there is a God deep down in their heart, but have rebelled against Him and the truth, since all were tempted in some way and have sinned. We are even part of that creation in which God is spoken about day after day, night after night.....I really think the truth is in us deep down, in our very DNA as His created beings, as it were, as well as being proclaimed all around us in the stars and all of creation, if only we would accept it/Him and awaken to it/Him...by the power and grace of Christ in God which alone can break one's soul out of the snare of being separated from God that we all fell into.

But brother, if I may just say something.......I believe we need to be careful of the flesh in either direction, whether to be Phariseeical or to be walking in a love for people that is of our own "self" and not of God. God's love doesn't compromise the truth and is not accepting of sin....His love is of His Spirit, and not of our own. Scripture says friendship with the world is enmity with God, and that we are to "come out from among them and be ye separate" that He might receive us. Being separate from the world and unto God is part of what it means to be holy, and we want to remain that way.

Jde 1:21
Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
And of some have compassion, making a difference:
And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

I notice here that God’s compassion and love and hating sin are not incompatible, they even go together. That doesn’t’ mean to condemn individual people, or to treat anyone like lepers or unkindly.....it is for the Lord to judge others, not us (we are not qualified to sit in judgment of our fellow man). But neither does it mean to embrace anyone's sins. We need to take heed to ourselves, that we stand and walk in God's love/spirit/power and not our own human emotions which will only lead us to compromise while saving nobody.......we in our own self, or our own anything, just don't have that power. But I believe that we can channel our emotions into fervent prayer...it can be a motivator for us to entreat GOD to move in a situation or in hearts etc.