Let's study Romans-with Dr. Utley

[face2face]

I think its worthwhile pointing out Utley's teaching on Romans 1:5

“to bring about” This is a second use of eis in a purpose context (cf. v. 1). The gospel restores the image of God in mankind through faith in Jesus. This allows the original purpose of God to be manifested, which is intimate fellowship with a people who reflect His character (cf. v. 7).

Robert James Utley, The Gospel according to Paul: Romans, vol. Volume 5 of Study Guide Commentary Series (Marshall, Texas: Bible Lessons International, 1998), Ro 1:5.

I like how he uses the word manifested - not many theologians like to do so, as it leads a believer to understand how Logos was manifested perfectly through Jesus the "Word made Flesh"...not without intense suffering on Christs part.

The way the image was restored is found in how God destroyed sins power in the offering of His Son. The carnal (serpent) mind had dominion in the earth, until God conquered sins power through the death of his son (a son not worthy of death!).

Utley is close to this, as Paul has already mentioned Jesus was appointed the Son by God resurrecting him from the dead. Utley only needs to follow Christs example in crucifying the flesh; particularly its desires and lusts.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Romans 1:5
Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake.

Can you imagine how Saul, the Pharisee, would have found this proposition?

The Greek word for "nations" (ethnos), was commonly understood as meaning Gentiles in contrast to Jews. The apostles were required to preach the gospel to all people, that they might become "in the name" (Acts 15:14; Jn. 17:20), and manifest the qualities seen first in His Son.

Yahweh's purpose is to reveal Himself (manifest Logos)

1. In a Son (2 Cor. 5:19; Jn. 17:6, 11, 26)
2 In a society, the body of Christ (Acts 15:14; Rev. 14:1)
3. Universally in all creation (1 Cor. 15:28; Num. 14:21).

The commission to Paul was fulfilled in his final preaching work in Rome (Acts 28:31), and he said to the Ephesian Church: "I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God" (Acts 20:27).

It's an incredible the Gospel of God through Jesus Christ.

 

[face2face]

So lets look at Romans 1 from a Biblical viewpoint.

What is meant by the Apostle stating Christ is of the seed of David after the flesh?

Firstly, the phrase reveals Christs regal inheritance and the one whom God fulfilled the covenant as spoken to David. No person would deny this truth.

As to his nature, the Lords own final words reveals even in his glorified state that he was descended from David." Christ is the "root
and offspring of David" as per Rev 22:16, and confirmed the ancient promise of 2 Sam. 7.

The writer of Romans understood these two elements that Christ's existence is in David; a truth which stands today and something which cannot be said of the One True God.

The writer of Romans also acknowledges the Lords royal descent in relation to the throne of Israel. He alone has the "right" to David's throne, as per Ezek 21:27: Luke 1:30-33.

Something he is yet to do!

So what is Bob unable to prove?

Firstly, the Savior of humanity had to be both Son of Man and Son of God, that he might become "the Word made flesh" and
bring to fruition God's atoning work for the salvation of mankind. Modern philosophers would aim to give Jesus two natures simultaneously so as to maintain Deity - a doctrine nowhere taught.

However,

The man known as Jesus of Nazareth stood, in relation to the Deity, as no other man stood. Being a new creation, God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself. This meant that Christ while taking part in sin's flesh, also shared His Father quickness to discern spiritual things.

We understand this uniqueness in Christ from these words:

Isaiah 11:3 And shall make him of quick understanding, and his delight shall be in the reverential and obedient fear of the Lord. And he shall not judge by the sight of his eyes, neither decide by the hearing of His ears; 4 But with righteousness and justice shall he judge the poor and decide with fairness for the meek, the poor, and the downtrodden of the earth; and he shall smite the earth and the oppressor with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of his lips He shall slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his waist and faithfulness the girdle of his loins.

This prophecy is key in understanding that the Christ was unique, unmatched, unparalleled....but not Deity.

F2F

@Keturah



Is this like, Wow, I didn't know that, or, Wow, can you share more, or, Wow, I didnt know God would make his son of quick understanding in the things of the Spirit?

F2F

 

[face2face]

I'm happy and willing to play along with your little games Keturah...you might learn something along the way.
Who knows.

 

[Keturah]

""This prophecy is key in understanding that the Christ was unique, unmatched, unparalleled....but not Deity.
F2F" #44


Hmmm, the quote I COPIED, from your post is most revealing.

I ask them if you DENY the deity of Jesus, then how can one CLAIM SALVATION ? ..........
For it is said ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SIN ! MK2:7; Luke 5:21,( yes I am aware it was the Scribes & Pharisees who made this statement about what Jesus said or did )

What of these words also in Romans.......
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9- That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.( Paul is speaking of the Lord here in reference to Jesus)

Or this from Acts 10:43 - To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name ( it is referencing Jesus,no?) whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
What say you @face2face ?
Is there SALVATION APART FROM GOD ?

 

[Keturah]

@Keturah

View attachment 33739

Is this like, Wow, I didn't know that, or, Wow, can you share more, or, Wow, I didnt know God would make his son of quick understanding in the things of the Spirit?

F2F

How about wow, the audacity!

 

[Keturah]

Socinian-Gotcha!

What do Socinians believe?
Socinian | Definition, History, Beliefs, Unitarianism ...
The Socinians referred to themselves as “brethren” and were known by the latter half of the 17th century as “Unitarians” or “Polish Brethren.” They accepted Jesus as God's revelation but still a mere man, divine by office rather than by nature; Socinians thus rejected the doctrine of the Trinity.

Too tired to respond now 2:42 in the morning-Utley is spot on-you are in error.

See you tomorrow.
Johann.

This wow is " I didn't know that"..... Lol

 

[Keturah]

No games from me unless they are stated as GAMES OR FUN .
Nevertheless we are through with our correspondences!

 

[face2face]

How about wow, the audacity!

Typical response really.

 

[face2face]

No games from me unless they are stayed as GAMES OR FUN .
Nevertheless we are through we our correspondences!

Same same.

 

[Keturah]

I find this to be funny.......
2 days ago I emptied out my ignore box.
3 have found their way back in of 70 something I put there, due to their OWN twisted theology or the ardent following of such.

I fully believe in second or more chances to get it right, for God is long-suffering to us
ALL!!

I came here to share my faith in God's word, to also learn from others if I need correcting & rebuke in my understanding. What I don't get is those whom THINK they have it zeroed in on & CAN NOT LEARN OR BE TAUGHT BY OTHERS!

 

[face2face]

""This prophecy is key in understanding that the Christ was unique, unmatched, unparalleled....but not Deity.
F2F" #44

Yes we established that fairly early on in our discussions. Johann struggled with 1 Corinthians 15:45

Hmmm, the quote I COPIED, from your post is most revealing.

I assume in the negative - which is becoming typical of your posts.

I ask them if you DENY the deity of Jesus, then how can one CLAIM SALVATION ? ..........
For it is said ONLY GOD CAN FORGIVE SIN ! MK2:7

More ignorance on your part.

Are you playing the part of the teachers of the Law here Keturah?

If you spent more time actually reading the text references you quote you might actually know something!

Like them are you forgetting that on the Day of Atonement the High Priest acted on God's behalf to do this very thing!

( yes I am aware it was the Scribes & Pharisees who made this statement about what Jesus said or did )

Wow
I know right

What of these words also in Romans.......
Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9- That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:13 - For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.( Paul is speaking of the Lord here in reference to Jesus)

Or this from Acts 10:43 - To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name ( it is referencing Jesus,no?) whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
What say you @face2face ?
Is there SALVATION APART FROM GOD ?

Unclear what you are trying to teach here?
None of it proves Deity...if that is what you are trying to prove.
Maybe be more specific - expound the verses you are quoting so I can discern what you are inferring.
F2F

 

[face2face]

in 9 minutes!

 

[Johann]

Correct - the Lord is a New Creation - the firstfruits from the dead

And who "created" Jesus?
J.

 

[Johann]

@Johann
My brother, I am watching this thread you've started but decline to post @ the moment.

Keep strong & hold fast to your faith, for the naysayer & mockers of TRUTH abound!

Be encouraged........always!

Stay strong, firmly grounded and rooted in our great God and Savior Christ Jesus dear sister-in this short time I have come to know you-I really appreciate you.
Blessings
Johann

 

[Johann]

I dont understand why you would think he is SDA. Adventist believe Jesus is God

Maybe "angels" were involved in creation-including a "created Jesus?"
Johann

 

[Keturah]

Stay strong, firmly grounded and rooted in our great God and Savior Christ Jesus dear sister-in this short time I have come to know you-I really appreciate you.
Blessings
Johann

Blessings in Christ & the sweet Spirit to you also.
Thank you.
Be encouraged on this very diverse & arduous journey of sharing & learning the walk of our discipleship!

 

[Cassandra]

Adventists do not believe Jesus was created.

 

[Johann]

Adventists do not believe Jesus was created.

Short story-
When attempting to answer the question of “was Jesus created?” there is no better person to look to than Jesus Himself.

During His public ministry, Jesus continually assumed for Himself divine prerogatives. He continually exercised rights that would never be appropriate for a created being. He said that He was “Lord of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:28), and, since the Sabbath was instituted by God, Jesus’ claim to be “Lord” of the Sabbath was an assertion of deity. Jesus spoke of His unique, intimate knowledge of the Father (Matthew 11:27) and of the glory He shared with the Father “before the world began” (John 17:5). Jesus accepted the worship of others (Matthew 14:32–33) and described a future time when He will sit in judgment over all nations (Matthew 25:31–44). Luke tells us that Jesus went so far as to personally forgive a woman’s sins—something only God can do—and attributed her forgiveness to her faith in Him (Luke 7:48–50)!

Jesus’ disciples were equally clear in their belief in Jesus’ deity and uncreated nature. John tells us that

“in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God” (John 1:1). After having encountered the risen Jesus, the apostle Thomas exclaimed to Him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28).

The apostle Paul referred to Christ as “God over all” (Romans 9:5) and stated that “in [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9).

In the early days of the church, Jesus was both the object of prayer (Acts 7:59) and the One in whose name the forgiveness of sins was proclaimed (Acts 2:38; 10:43). After having interrogated Christians under the threat of death, the Roman administrator Pliny the Younger wrote in his letter to the Emperor Trajan (c. AD 110) that “[the Christians] were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light when they sang in alternative verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god” (Letters 10.96).

Jesus, God the Son, was not created. He has always existed; He has no beginning or end.

The Son took on human flesh at a particular point in human history (John 1:14). Christians refer to this event as the Incarnation (“the act of being made flesh”). This act was integral to our salvation (Galatians 4:4–5; 2 Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 9:22). From the Incarnation onward, the eternal, uncreated Son is both truly God and truly man. But there was never a time when the Son did not exist. He was never created. Jesus always was and will forever remain “our great God and Savior” (Titus 2:13).

Was Jesus created? | GotQuestions.org

Was Jesus created? Was Jesus the greatest creation of God? Why is it so important to understand that Jesus was not created?

www.gotquestions.org

Thanks
Johann.

 

[Cassandra]

That is exactly what I said. Jesus is not created. Jesus is God. Adventists do not believe Jesus was created.