Limited atonement is a false gospel

[amigo de christo]

Hell is done and over with according to the Bible, and Jesus paid for all sins of all people.

It’s either yes or no.

Those whom were poured out of hell had enough time to think and repent if they so done so…

All hell was is a separation from being with Yahavah, though even Yahavah is said to be omnipresent, so who knows if he was calling even to those whom died previously, and where kept in that separation.

Hell itself had two compartments and it was sin that kept people from Yahavah, though even so, it was faith that brought people into Abraham’s bosom or Paradise as they say.

I believe Jesus went to hell too. He went and preached a message too those that were in the lower parts of it.

You forget a MASSIVE KEY my friend .
YES JESUS sure did sacrfice himself for the sins of the world .
That ALL who DO BELIEVE IN HIM would not perish .
Not so that everyone could hug their own gods and just flock together as one
and DENY JESUS HIMSELF.
THERE is one thing many seem not to realize .
GOD IS LOVE . BUT HIS LOVE WILL NEVER DISHONOR HIM , THE SON , THE TRUTH .
CHARITY rejoices in the TRUTH
not in a well sounded lie . no matter how loving or caring that lie might have sounded
IT CAME not OF GOD . Many will burn and wail in the lake of fire .
ALL who denied HIM will wail
and all who even claimed to BELEIVE ON HIM and yet used that lovely name of HIS
to try and promote some other kind of gospel that even dares to imply
other religions serve the same GOD as do the believers . THEY WILL WAIL loudest of all
Because not only DID the pump the lie of anti christ to these lost religoins and to this world
THEY DID IT USING THE VERY NAME OF JESUS . Greater damnation awaits THOSE .
SO may i highly suggest to us all
TIME TO PREACH JESUS with the DIRE REMINDER to BELEIVE ON HIM , OR PERISH . its that simple and its that serious .

 

[One 2 question]

it was suppose you provide scripture to back that up ? your spreading strange fire

Why is God required to provide scriptures to reveal His truths? That is, to tell certain chosen humans every detail of His plans and for those particular humans to have them scribed or written down.

If you can answer this question, I'll be more than willing to answer yours.

 

[amigo de christo]

Why is God required to provide scriptures to reveal His truths? That is, to tell certain chosen humans every detail of His plans and for those particular humans to have them scribed or written down.

If you can answer this question, I'll be more than willing to answer yours.

And my simple question is
why would the sheep of HIS pasture
ever have had a problem with testing all things said and heard BY THE SCRIPTURES .
only those who have something to hide would ever do that .
Because what they dont want is
THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPS to expose the darkness of what they teach .
So why would sheep not love TRUTH , when Charity ITSELF REJOICES IN THE TRUTH
not in inquity and we all know lies are inquity .
SO ponder on that for a while . Pray and open your bible as well and let us get real
busy both enjoying , loving and learning the truth .
OH the answer as to why would a sheep not LOVE TRUTH . oh tis real simple
THEY ARE NOT SHEEP at all . Sheep have the agape love of GOD upon our hearts .
May you pray deeply and ponder about this my friend .

 

[Ezra]

Why is God required to provide scriptures to reveal His truths? That is, to tell certain chosen humans every detail of His plans and for those particular humans to have them scribed or written down.

If you can answer this question, I'll be more than willing to answer yours.

this is what you posted { It certainly was God's plan for A & E to eat of the tree of the knowledge of G & E once they carried out God's mandate to fill the earth and have dominion over the animals.} i asked for scripture to back this up.. because i dont find that answer while i do feel it certainly was a test ..but it was also a direct instruction saying leave it alone... God gives us free will everything was Good till the serpent came in with enticing words twisting the instructions around.. hath God said or did he really mean ? the Bible saya he was more subtitle than any beast . here is the beginning of the conversation 1Now the serpent was more subtil { crafty } than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
paul wrote not be ignorant of his devices > 11Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
in this context he is speaking of not forgiving .

btw i didnt ask this question of God i asked you --Why is God required to provide scriptures to reveal His truths?

paul also wrote in

Ephesians 4:27​

“Neither give place to the devil.”


certainly at that point god had to take full control ,,, but what your saying does not compute i am not into playing games i asked you for the reason of your belief . i took the time explained my position.. if you dont feel the need to answer so be it.. not into ill give my answer when i get your answer

 

[One 2 question]

And my simple question is
why would the sheep of HIS pasture
ever have had a problem with testing all things said and heard BY THE SCRIPTURES .
only those who have something to hide would ever do that .
Because what they dont want is
THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPS to expose the darkness of what they teach .
So why would sheep not love TRUTH , when Charity ITSELF REJOICES IN THE TRUTH
not in inquity and we all know lies are inquity .
SO ponder on that for a while . Pray and open your bible as well and let us get real
busy both enjoying , loving and learning the truth .
OH the answer as to why would a sheep not LOVE TRUTH . oh tis real simple
THEY ARE NOT SHEEP at all . Sheep have the agape love of GOD upon our hearts .
May you pray deeply and ponder about this my friend .

So those sheep who didn't have knowledge of scriptures, including Gentiles believers, who spoke TRUTH in tongues, who prophesied the TRUTH, who dreamed TRUTH, had visions of TRUTH were not really Jesus sheep.

And if they did receive TRUTH, from where did that TRUTH originate? Certainly not the scriptures.

 

[One 2 question]

this is what you posted { It certainly was God's plan for A & E to eat of the tree of the knowledge of G & E once they carried out God's mandate to fill the earth and have dominion over the animals.} i asked for scripture to back this up.. because i dont find that answer while i do feel it certainly was a test ..but it was also a direct instruction saying leave it alone... God gives us free will everything was Good till the serpent came in with enticing words twisting the instructions around.. hath God said or did he really mean ? the Bible saya he was more subtitle than any beast . here is the beginning of the conversation 1Now the serpent was more subtil { crafty } than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? 2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
paul wrote not be ignorant of his devices > 11Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
in this context he is speaking of not forgiving .

paul also wrote in

Ephesians 4:27​

“Neither give place to the devil.”


certainly at that point god had to take full control ,,, but what your saying does not compute i am not into playing games i asked you for the reason of your belief . i took the time explained my position.. if you dont feel the need to answer so be it.. not into ill give my answer when i get your answer

This is why I responded to the Spirit of our Creator when He revealed to me that I had made the bible an idol, a substitute for the Spirit of GOD. I had the belief that there was my Father in heaven, Jesus my Saviour at His right and the Holy Bible which He sent to reveal all truth.

I repented of this belief and practice of consulting the bible and turned to His Spirit. He has been revealing TRUTH through various means ever since.

This is very serious, not a game. As my enemy tries to use the scriptures with me, like he did quoting it to Jesus, I hear what Jesus my Shepherd is saying to me, His sheep. No confusion. No division. Jesus speaks clearly to me when He wants to. What He says is up to Him. It's quite simple really. The challenge I find, as do others, is that the TRUTH may take longer to get through to me than trying to find a principle from the bible that may apply to my situation.

 

[David Lamb]

Hell is done and over with according to the Bible, and Jesus paid for all sins of all people.

It’s either yes or no.

Those whom were poured out of hell had enough time to think and repent if they so done so…

All hell was is a separation from being with Yahavah, though even Yahavah is said to be omnipresent, so who knows if he was calling even to those whom died previously, and where kept in that separation.

Hell itself had two compartments and it was sin that kept people from Yahavah, though even so, it was faith that brought people into Abraham’s bosom or Paradise as they say.

I believe Jesus went to hell too. He went and preached a message too those that were in the lower parts of it.

Where does the bible say that hell if over and done with, or "done and over" as you put it?

Whom do you mean by "Those whom were poured out of hell?" Where does the bible mention people being poured out of hell?

Where does the bible say that hell has two compartments?

 

[Ritajanice]

So why would sheep not love TRUTH

Truth needs to be known in the heart/ spirit...before one can even start to understand the scriptures.

Even then,it’s in God’s timing and through the Holy Spirit teaching that we come to understand the scriptures, which are written under the influence of the Spirit.

Posting reams and reams of scripture, is pointless and void, if one doesn’t know Jesus from within their hearts/ spirit?

That is why we must be Born Of The Spirit first....Only then can we be brought to understand the scriptures by the Living Holy Spirit, who permanently indwells our spirit......Spirit gave birth to our spirit, first and foremost...in Jesus Name!...Amen?

The Living Spirit is our guide and he brings scripture to our understanding......let’s face it.....WE ALL BELIEVE WE HAVE THE TRUTH.....that is why there is so much arguing on here, because some “ force “ their truth onto others...we’re all guilty of that, it’s rife on this forum......the same repetitive arguing.....we can’t force what we believe onto another......I stand 100% firm in what God has brought me to believe.....just like others do......I will NEVER budge from my belief...because it upsets some others and what they believe.

 

[One 2 question]

the Bible saya he was more subtitle than any beast .

Our Creator made the serpent more cunning.

 

[One 2 question]

And my simple question is
why would the sheep of HIS pasture
ever have had a problem with testing all things said and heard BY THE SCRIPTURES .

Why are you restricting God's TRUTH to the scriptures?

only those who have something to hide would ever do that .

When have you experienced Jesus's sheep hiding pearls of TRUTH away from others?

Because what they dont want is
THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPS to expose the darkness of what they teach .

Why are Jesus's sheep restricted to only hearing the voice of the Shepherd of history, words spoken 2000 year ago to the lost sheep of Israel?

So why would sheep not love TRUTH , when Charity ITSELF REJOICES IN THE TRUTH
not in inquity and we all know lies are inquity .
SO ponder on that for a while .

Are you implying that all TRUTH is contained in the scriptures? Personally I love the Truth Himself and the truth He taught, most of which was never written down.

Pray and open your bible as well and let us get real
busy both enjoying , loving and learning the truth .
OH the answer as to why would a sheep not LOVE TRUTH . oh tis real simple
THEY ARE NOT SHEEP at all . Sheep have the agape love of GOD upon our hearts .
May you pray deeply and ponder about this my friend .

Thanks. One of the few things that were recorded of Jesus saying was....., My sheep hear My voice. Again, most of what Jesus said was never documented. Those words He has been speaking to His lost and found sheep over the past 2000 years have been feeding and growing His flock of sheep.

He or she who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit of Jesus is saying to His flock, through His flock, for His flock.

 

[MatthewG]

Where does the bible say that hell if over and done with, or "done and over" as you put it?

Whom do you mean by "Those whom were poured out of hell?" Where does the bible mention people being poured out of hell?

Where does the bible say that hell has two compartments?

Have you read it? And What do you know about it?

 

[Scott Downey]

Why are you restricting God's TRUTH to the scriptures?

When have you experienced Jesus's sheep hiding pearls of TRUTH away from others?

Why are Jesus's sheep restricted to only hearing the voice of the Shepherd of history, words spoken 2000 year ago to the lost sheep of Israel?

Are you implying that all TRUTH is contained in the scriptures? Personally I love the Truth Himself and the truth He taught, most of which was never written down.

Thanks. One of the few things that were recorded of Jesus saying was....., My sheep hear My voice. Again, most of what Jesus said was never documented. Those words He has been speaking to His lost and found sheep over the past 2000 years have been feeding and growing His flock of sheep.

He or she who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit of Jesus is saying to His flock, through His flock, for His flock.

I agree but with reservations. As the sheep of Christ have enemies, they lie to the sheep saying God spoke this to me for you, eat and scatter the sheep. And I can only know if what someone is claiming is genuine if it agrees with Jesus and His apostles doctrines as taught in scripture. And seeing all the widely varying scriptural ideas constantly blowing in the wind, you can see even scriptural authority gets twisted!

So if you or anyone tells me something different or new apart from scripture, I can not verify your experience with God as genuine, if I find scriptures that do not say what you claim. Other thing is their is no basis for teaching either, as we know there are many false teachers. They all put their spin on scripture right now, much easier to do than with something God only told a single person.

It can even be minor errors, but the test of a prophet of God was 100% perfect, no failure.

John 10:12
But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

Luke 10

2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves.

 

[amigo de christo]

Truth needs to be known in the heart/ spirit...before one can even start to understand the scriptures.

Even then,it’s in God’s timing and through the Holy Spirit teaching that we come to understand the scriptures, which are written under the influence of the Spirit.

Posting reams and reams of scripture, is pointless and void, if one doesn’t know Jesus from within their hearts/ spirit?

That is why we must be Born Of The Spirit first....Only then can we be brought to understand the scriptures by the Living Holy Spirit, who permanently indwells our spirit......Spirit gave birth to our spirit, first and foremost...in Jesus Name!...Amen?

The Living Spirit is our guide and he brings scripture to our understanding......let’s face it.....WE ALL BELIEVE WE HAVE THE TRUTH.....that is why there is so much arguing on here, because some “ force “ their truth onto others...we’re all guilty of that, it’s rife on this forum......the same repetitive arguing.....we can’t force what we believe onto another......I stand 100% firm in what God has brought me to believe.....just like others do......I will NEVER budge from my belief...because it upsets some others and what they believe.

While i agree , in part with if a person posts scrips and yet Dont know Christ then yeah its all in vain for such a person .
However , some of us Do know Christ and thus we gonna flood this place with all
reminders of that lovely truth . Isnt that just lovely .

 

[amigo de christo]

Why are you restricting God's TRUTH to the scriptures?

When have you experienced Jesus's sheep hiding pearls of TRUTH away from others?

Why are Jesus's sheep restricted to only hearing the voice of the Shepherd of history, words spoken 2000 year ago to the lost sheep of Israel?

Are you implying that all TRUTH is contained in the scriptures? Personally I love the Truth Himself and the truth He taught, most of which was never written down.

Thanks. One of the few things that were recorded of Jesus saying was....., My sheep hear My voice. Again, most of what Jesus said was never documented. Those words He has been speaking to His lost and found sheep over the past 2000 years have been feeding and growing His flock of sheep.

He or she who has ears to hear, hear what the Spirit of Jesus is saying to His flock, through His flock, for His flock.

Excuses my friend . I hear only much excuses .
OH and i KNOW that many things that JESUS did and said WERE NOT recorded .
Now on this you are correct .
BUT KNOW THIS , anything HE did or said that was not recorded , or any word or thought
a person has , thinks , speaks , which contradicts WHAT WAS written
OH its a lie for sure and for certain .
I have often heard the phrase GOD is HUGE , lets not put him into a box
Used often by those against any who comes to expose sin .
SO allow me some parting words . GOD IS HUGE , lets not put him into the box of men ,
and allow our emotions , thoughts , doctrines o men and etc , TO FORM our opinion of HIM .
Rather let us learn the scrips well and test all things said , taught , or even thought , AGAINST them scrips .
Many run on emotions . Many do not like to be reminded of the Truth that does so expose
their sin . So unto those i know for sure they dont want to hear any bible talk . because TRUTH exposes and reproves
their contrary minds and sin . Just a friendly reminder for us all to hear .
SO GOD IS HUGE , CHRIST Did many things that were not written and recorded
BUT HE DARN sure aint so big HE IS GONNA DENY in any way HIS TRUTH .
Keep that IN MIND .

 

[amigo de christo]

I agree but with reservations. As the sheep of Christ have enemies, they lie to the sheep saying God spoke this to me for you, eat and scatter the sheep. And I can only know if what someone is claiming is genuine if it agrees with Jesus and His apostles doctrines as taught in scripture. And seeing all the widely varying scriptural ideas constantly blowing in the wind, you can see even scriptural authority gets twisted!

So if you or anyone tells me something different or new apart from scripture, I can not verify your experience with God as genuine, if I find scriptures that do not say what you claim. Other thing is their is no basis for teaching either, as we know there are many false teachers. They all put their spin on scripture right now, much easier to do than with something God only told a single person.

It can even be minor errors, but the test of a prophet of God was 100% perfect, no failure.

John 10:12
But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.

Luke 10

2 Then He said to them, “The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. 3 Go your way; behold, I send you out as lambs among wolves.

Exactly scott . Many can and many do often prophesy of their own hearts desires
ONE THING i do know and that by grace
Men often change with the flow
Times change and seasons do change
And societies throughout times do change .
BUT THE WORD OF GOD does not . IT remains CONSTANT , PURE , and never adapts and conforms
to the changing views of men . It rather reproves , exposes anything contrary to GOD .
Many do not like the scrips and rather choose to live by their own feelings , beleiving it to be OF GOD of whom they hear .
But No matter HOW BIG GOD IS
and no matter How many things JESUS did that were not recorded ,
GUESS what i by grace do know . Whatever HE did , DID NOT and WOULD NOT EVER
have contradicted THE VERY TRUTH HE INSPIRED and that we have the priviliedge to have read in the scriptures .
IN others words , GOD CANNOT LIE and His mind is not as the minds of men
which can go with any flow of any wind in any direction their carnal mind can lead them .
GOD is aboslute . HIS WORD is absolute , and NO LIE is ever of the TRUTH .
So we gonna stay well refreshed in the scrips my friend . and By grace we shall continue
to test all things said , done or even thought of men , Against the scripture . Because
i dont care if a thought even sounds so loving , so good , so kind
IF SAID thought contradicts TRUTH , well its a LIE no matter how cloaked it came in to deceive

 

[David Lamb]

Have you read it? And What do you know about it?

Are you asking me if I have read the bible? If so, the answer is yes. Surely you cannot expect me to state everything I know from/about the bible in one post on this thread. What I can say is that in my reading of the bible, I cannot recall every reading that hell has two compartments, that anybody is "poured out of hell," or that hell has already been done away with.

 

[MatthewG]

Are you asking me if I have read the bible? If so, the answer is yes. Surely you cannot expect me to state everything I know from/about the bible in one post on this thread. What I can say is that in my reading of the bible, I cannot recall every reading that hell has two compartments, that anybody is "poured out of hell," or that hell has already been done away with.

From my standpoint, I believe that hell - hades - sheol - was a place for people while sin was still not paid for.
There was Abrahams bosom, and there was separate part of it, mentioned by Jesus, in one of his Parables. (Luke 16:22)
Peter mentions Jesus went to these lowers parts. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
Revelation mentions people being poured out of that place, (after sin was paid for and the completion of Revelation was in play). (Revelation 20:13)
Hell is done away with according to the Bible. (Revelation 20:14).
The place people end up now is either in the Kingdom, or outside the Kingdom. (Found in Revelation Chapter 21;Chapter 22)

Hope that helps you, and may the Spirit guide you.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Even in John 17:12, Jesus refers to Judas as "the son of destruction" who was "lost", implying that there was a time when he was considered one of those preserved and protected disciples before his betrayal. The terms of loss presuppose prior possession; one cannot lose that which he never had.

First off, I do not think the term limited atonement is a accurate assessment. It implies a limitation of God's grace. I think there is a precise number chosen to be saved. How do I know? Because God knows the end from the beginning.
Now that said, everyone is born a sinner, lost, as was Judas. Judas was never chosen to be saved, he was chosen to be the one who would betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver
( Zech. 11:12-13).
As Jesus describes the Parable of the Sower of seeds, Judas' seed fell on shallow soil. Judas never fully believed and trusted in Christ, so when his test came, he failed. He remained lost and Jesus knew this from the beginning.

This has the full correspondence with the wider biblical teaching about apostasy

Apostasy is simply the rejection of Jesus as Lord and Savior - regardless of whether the seed was planted in Rocky Soil or Shallow Soil or in many cases the seed never fell on you (people who never heard the gospel).
And Romans 1:18-21 reveals that regardless if the gospel reached them or not - they are all without excuse!

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened."

So that gnawing age old question: "What about the people who never heard the gospel ... why should they be judged ... it's not fair ... bla, bla, bla", is answered in the above passage.

 

[amigo de christo]

Have you read it? And What do you know about it?

I have read it my friend .
What do i know about it .
The sheep wont ever face that lake of fire
but all unbelievers , those who made and loved a lie , the abominable
Sure will face it .
IT as easy as one two three
Believe on JESUS if ya wanna be made free .
For if one beleives not the TESTIMONY of GOD
they will face the wrath of all MIGHTY GOD and HIS ROD .
SO without failure i leave us with these words
HEED the TRUTH in scripture and not the contrary doctrines of men and their turds .
Pretty simple indeed my friend .
NO lie is of the TRUTH .
GOD IS TRUTH
THE WORD IS TRUTH
THE SPIRIT is TRUTH
And all them lovely words HE spoke and taught ARE truth .
see how simple it is . Let us go back into the bible to learn and to grow , to be made wise unto SALVATION
through Faith IN JESUS CHRIST
and not rather being made wise unto SLAVATION through faith in another jesus , in our own thoughts .
cause the latter one cannot save , it can only seduce the one who believes it IS the real CHRIST into beleiving its lies .
Remember satan still desires the death of all
And thus through the lusts of the flesh , of the carnal minds , HE gonna convince
anyone he can , AS HE DID EVE , to not BELEIVE GOD , but rather what it says as it produces
another image of GOD , OF his love , OF CHRIST that had one been made wise
THEY HAD REALIZED , oh dear its not GOD , Its not Christ , its another that has come in its own name
to lead all to the lie and to merge them all as one in the greatest hour of rebellion
towards THE REAL CHRIST and the true saints , WHO DID RESIST it by faith , who did not conform to this world .

 

[David Lamb]

From my standpoint, I believe that hell - hades - sheol - was a place for people while sin was still not paid for.
There was Abrahams bosom, and there was separate part of it, mentioned by Jesus, in one of his Parables. (Luke 16:22)
Peter mentions Jesus went to these lowers parts. (1 Peter 3:18-20)
Revelation mentions people being poured out of that place, (after sin was paid for and the completion of Revelation was in play). (Revelation 20:13)
Hell is done away with according to the Bible. (Revelation 20:14).
The place people end up now is either in the Kingdom, or outside the Kingdom. (Found in Revelation Chapter 21;Chapter 22)

Hope that helps you, and may the Spirit guide you.

That helps me to understand what you meant. Thanks.

Revelation 20:13 doesn't say that people are poured out of hell. In context, it shows that the hell where they end up is somwhere even worse than Hades:

“13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.” (Re 20:13-15 NKJV)

That doesn't fit with what you seemed to be saying (forgive me if I have misunderstood you), that people will be granted escape from hell.

Death and Hades being cast into the lake of fire is still in the future. Revelation is not history. It was a revelation given by Jesus to John of things to happen in the future.

Thanks for explaining what you meant.