Okay,there has not been many new post so I thought I would make one. Listening. I believe by some of the post I have seen/posted in,it looks as like we are reading and thinking about what we are going to say before we finish reading what they have to say. Listening. I see a lot of post saying,I don't want to be atheist,or I want to have faith,or how can I prove there is a God. We people of the Board,have answered these questions countless times,we have given GREAT REASONS. I believe the problem is you people who are asking are not taking the advice,you don't want to believe in God(I may be wrong)You like your lifestyle free from worry.So instead of listening to us,or even God you are taking what we say and already coming up with ways to disprove our *Facts*. Listening. Choose to or not,but my challenge to everyone here,is to start really listening take in the advice given,do not try to defend your ways so quickly. Listen and you to will be saved by God's glorious self. Listening. I am going to pray that I will see less post about I don't want to be an atheist etc. I want you to listen to us and God and have your life changed as I have had mine. I am not bashing anyone,I am just saying,I do not know if everyone does not take in advice,or if they do I just feel from some of the things I have seen,you are just so worried about changing your ways,you defend them instead of listening.God Bless everyone!Love,-Duke-
Listen EVERYONE PLEASE!
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Hey Duke,I haven't myself been replying or posting much lately - partly because I'm busy and partly for the exact reason you said - I'm still reading my own theads and others here, just taking a step back for a short while, praying and seeing what happens.I've a feeling that I'm probably one of the people you feel isn't listening or taking things in. I am, admittedly I don't always take it in first time around, I often read things twice before even replying and then come back to read them again. However for me - well in the case of my thread(s) anyway, it's either a case of okay thank you, thats what you believe (not that it's wrong, it's just I purely asked for a statement)... others like wanting proof, I feel I must explain why this isn't proof to me. That doesn't mean I don't want to believe or I don't want to find God, but I like to come to and understanding with people - where they understand what I'm searching for so they can help better. This can be quite a process of questions, answers and back and forth but I've come to a better understanding with a few people.Although I think it's great advice to listen to each other.
I am really not looking for a thank you,see questioning is good that means you normally want to find out more and more. Which is a step,what I am talking about is posting stuff and just posting and not listening,and defending your posistion so quickly and not taking it in. I am sorry Pildit I also did not understand what else you were saying.
DukesterI hear you and agree.But I will take a different slant. I think we christians often do not answer a question when we are asked. What we often do is post several pages of bible and just one sentence from ourselves.Very seldom do we Christians answer questions in our own words and in everyday language. Our listener spots this immediately and walks away empty handed. Arnie M.
Can I request something of everyone else? Less arrogance and know-it-all-ism.I have left some forums, because the christians are never ever humble enough to say: "I'm not sure" or 'I am doubtful about ____"I will always be a student, compared to the Almighty.So please, as well as other people listening, can we have more humbleness by self appointed experts (Not talking about people in this thread).Also let's talk about the Good News more, and less of the end times conspiracies and Obamas Gay Uncle's muslim dog!Honestly if the end times comes or is around the corner? What will you differently other than the moral commandments in the bible??? Forget about when it will end and concentrate on loving God and your neighbour and your enemy. Love you enemy! REPENT!
(Dukester;45113)
I am really not looking for a thank you,see questioning is good that means you normally want to find out more and more. Which is a step,what I am talking about is posting stuff and just posting and not listening,and defending your posistion so quickly and not taking it in. I am sorry Pildit I also did not understand what else you were saying.
I'm just saying that although it can be frustrating to go back and forth, back and forth one to one with someone (on either side of the arguement), for me this is a good thing (as long as its done in good will, not with ad hominem attacks), it creates understanding between people.
I am really not looking for a thank you,see questioning is good that means you normally want to find out more and more. Which is a step,what I am talking about is posting stuff and just posting and not listening,and defending your posistion so quickly and not taking it in. I am sorry Pildit I also did not understand what else you were saying.
I'm just saying that although it can be frustrating to go back and forth, back and forth one to one with someone (on either side of the arguement), for me this is a good thing (as long as its done in good will, not with ad hominem attacks), it creates understanding between people.
(arniem;45148)
DukesterI hear you and agree.But I will take a different slant. I think we christians often do not answer a question when we are asked. What we often do is post several pages of bible and just one sentence from ourselves.Very seldom do we Christians answer questions in our own words and in everyday language. Our listener spots this immediately and walks away empty handed. Arnie M.
Yes Arnie,I have seen this to on the forum,we load them down with yet another bible verse,and write there,they quit listening. Putting it in our own words helps them understand,and gives them that more personal connection.
DukesterI hear you and agree.But I will take a different slant. I think we christians often do not answer a question when we are asked. What we often do is post several pages of bible and just one sentence from ourselves.Very seldom do we Christians answer questions in our own words and in everyday language. Our listener spots this immediately and walks away empty handed. Arnie M.
Yes Arnie,I have seen this to on the forum,we load them down with yet another bible verse,and write there,they quit listening. Putting it in our own words helps them understand,and gives them that more personal connection.
(David161099;45149)
Can I request something of everyone else? Less arrogance and know-it-all-ism.I have left some forums, because the christians are never ever humble enough to say: "I'm not sure" or 'I am doubtful about ____"I will always be a student, compared to the Almighty.So please, as well as other people listening, can we have more humbleness by self appointed experts (Not talking about people in this thread).Also let's talk about the Good News more, and less of the end times conspiracies and Obamas Gay Uncle's muslim dog!Honestly if the end times comes or is around the corner? What will you differently other than the moral commandments in the bible??? Forget about when it will end and concentrate on loving God and your neighbour and your enemy. Love you enemy! REPENT!
That last sentence really was what I have thought from day one. I rarely if not posted less than 10 time in the end times forum,I personally do not care when the world will end,nobody knows only God does stop trying to predict it. I would rather focus on helping others get to God,and just love God and when the time comes be ready. and REPENT
Also I will be taking that task you said above,I have had those times where I though I knew it all,and I realized that a while back now I try never to do it.God bless!Thanks for everyones responses!
Can I request something of everyone else? Less arrogance and know-it-all-ism.I have left some forums, because the christians are never ever humble enough to say: "I'm not sure" or 'I am doubtful about ____"I will always be a student, compared to the Almighty.So please, as well as other people listening, can we have more humbleness by self appointed experts (Not talking about people in this thread).Also let's talk about the Good News more, and less of the end times conspiracies and Obamas Gay Uncle's muslim dog!Honestly if the end times comes or is around the corner? What will you differently other than the moral commandments in the bible??? Forget about when it will end and concentrate on loving God and your neighbour and your enemy. Love you enemy! REPENT!
That last sentence really was what I have thought from day one. I rarely if not posted less than 10 time in the end times forum,I personally do not care when the world will end,nobody knows only God does stop trying to predict it. I would rather focus on helping others get to God,and just love God and when the time comes be ready. and REPENT
(Pildit;45170)
I'm just saying that although it can be frustrating to go back and forth, back and forth one to one with someone (on either side of the arguement), for me this is a good thing (as long as its done in good will, not with ad hominem attacks), it creates understanding between people.
See yes that is good. I am just talking about when they don't listen at all.
I'm just saying that although it can be frustrating to go back and forth, back and forth one to one with someone (on either side of the arguement), for me this is a good thing (as long as its done in good will, not with ad hominem attacks), it creates understanding between people.
See yes that is good. I am just talking about when they don't listen at all.
(Called 2 Conquer;46617)
. Pildit for example has gotten under my skin and later when I go back a read what I wrote or his response to what I said I realize that I crossed a line and I have to repent. I have to ask God for forgiveness for my weakness and from straying from Hid ways of doing things, on that same note I have also had to repent to Pildit for my words. Even if what I said was true it didn't have to be said it a way that offends and hurts. Pildit for example is very special to me. God has placed a burden of love on my heart for him that he come to salvation. I never pass up a chance to converse with him and to try and show him the path to the kingdom. To do that I listen, I pray, I meditate and what God would have me say to him but like the writters of the Bible the words I say are written by my hand inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. That I believe is what we, as christians, need to be doing here. Well thats my two cents, God Bless.
I'm just having a read around at the moment since it's nearly 5am right now, but I've come back after a break and have quite a bit to catch up on in my own thread.After reading this, I feel a must respond and say thank you for saying that and also for trying to help. Indeed we've had some misunderstandings and said wrong things, but during such an important discussion we all get frustrated. I think its important to be honest when something offends you, so the other can realise they did so and apologise accordingly and/or explain, this happens on both sides of course but as I was explaining sometimes these little things lead to better understanding between two people as long as they continue to discuss/debate and not argue, sorting out any misunderstandings or small disputes from frustration that may occur.Oh and I'm female!
. Pildit for example has gotten under my skin and later when I go back a read what I wrote or his response to what I said I realize that I crossed a line and I have to repent. I have to ask God for forgiveness for my weakness and from straying from Hid ways of doing things, on that same note I have also had to repent to Pildit for my words. Even if what I said was true it didn't have to be said it a way that offends and hurts. Pildit for example is very special to me. God has placed a burden of love on my heart for him that he come to salvation. I never pass up a chance to converse with him and to try and show him the path to the kingdom. To do that I listen, I pray, I meditate and what God would have me say to him but like the writters of the Bible the words I say are written by my hand inspired and illuminated by the Holy Spirit. That I believe is what we, as christians, need to be doing here. Well thats my two cents, God Bless.
I'm just having a read around at the moment since it's nearly 5am right now, but I've come back after a break and have quite a bit to catch up on in my own thread.After reading this, I feel a must respond and say thank you for saying that and also for trying to help. Indeed we've had some misunderstandings and said wrong things, but during such an important discussion we all get frustrated. I think its important to be honest when something offends you, so the other can realise they did so and apologise accordingly and/or explain, this happens on both sides of course but as I was explaining sometimes these little things lead to better understanding between two people as long as they continue to discuss/debate and not argue, sorting out any misunderstandings or small disputes from frustration that may occur.Oh and I'm female!
Let's imagine that I tell you the following story: There is a man who lives at the North Pole. He lives there with his wife and a bunch of elves. During the year, he and the elves build toys. Then, on Christmas Eve, he loads up a sack with all the toys. He puts the sack in his sleigh. He hitches up eight (or possibly nine) flying reindeer. He then flies from house to house, landing on the rooftops of each one. He gets out with his sack and climbs down the chimney. He leaves toys for the children of the household. He climbs back up the chimney, gets back in his sleigh, and flies to the next house. He does this all around the world in one night. Then he flies back to the North Pole to repeat the cycle next year. This, of course, is the story of Santa Claus. But let's say that I am an adult, and I am your friend, and I reveal to you that I believe that this story is true. I believe it with all my heart. And I try to talk about it with you and convert you to believe it as I do. What would you think of me? You would think that I am delusional, and rightly so. Why do you think that I am delusional? It is because you know that Santa is imaginary. The story is a total fairy tale. No matter how much I talk to you about Santa, you are not going to believe that Santa is real. Flying reindeer, for example, are make-believe. The dictionary defines delusion as, "A false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence." That definition fits perfectly. Since you are my friend, you might try to help me realize that my belief in Santa is a delusion. The way that you would try to do that is by asking me some questions. For example, you might say to me: "But how can the sleigh carry enough toys for everyone in the world?" I say to you that the sleigh is magical. It has the ability to do this intrinsically. "How does Santa get into houses and apartments that don't have chimneys?" I say that Santa can make chimneys appear, as shown to all of us in the movie The Santa Clause. "How does Santa get down the chimney if there's a fire in the fireplace?" I say that Santa has a special flame-resistant suit, and it cleans itself too. "Why doesn't the security system detect Santa?" Santa is invisible to security systems. "How can Santa travel fast enough to visit every child in one night?" Santa is timeless. "How can Santa know whether every child has been bad or good?" Santa is omniscient. "Why are the toys distributed so unevenly? Why does Santa deliver more toys to rich kids, even if they are bad, than he ever gives to poor kids?" There is no way for us to understand the mysteries of Santa because we are mere mortals, but Santa has his reasons. For example, perhaps poor children would be unable to handle a flood of expensive electronic toys. How would they afford the batteries? So Santa spares them this burden. These are all quite logical questions that you have asked. I have answered all of them for you. I am wondering why you can't see what I see, and you are wondering how I can be so insane. Why didn't my answers satisfy you? Why do you still know that I am delusional? It is because my answers have done nothing but confirm your assessment. My answers are ridiculous. In order to answer your questions, I invented, completely out of thin air, a magical sleigh, a magical self-cleaning suit, magical chimneys, "timelessness" and magical invisibility. You don't believe my answers because you know that I am making this stuff up. The invalidating evidence is voluminous. Now let me show you another example... Another Example Imagine that I tell you the following story: Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking: Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading! You: What's it about? Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life! You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it? Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe. You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you? Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself... You open the book to a random page, and you find this: Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech. If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them. If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20] You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment. You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual. Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply. You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book? Me: Well, parts of it do apply. You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply? You open the book to another random page and you find this: When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life. When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money. Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution. Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death. Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death. When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery. When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21] Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment. You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves. You open the book to another random page and you find this: I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2] You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice. You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced. As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end. You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong. If you are a scientist it is even worse, and it starts with the very first line: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth... That's not true. In the beginning a natural event created the universe as we know it, and the earth did not form until billions of years later. The creation story in Genesis is completely wrong. Simply read Genesis and you can see it. For example, the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first, then the planet and its rotation (which is what causes light and darkness to occur on a daily basis) and then the water, and this all happened over million of years. There are many other problems with the Bible: Man did not come from a handful of dust through some mythological being. Man evolved from other species like every other living thing has for hundreds of millions of years. The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record. There was no tower of Babel where God confounded the languages of mankind. The list goes on and on. The Bible is nonsense in a thousand different scientific ways. Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet? Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you read what the Bible actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book. The reason why the Bible contains so much nonsense is because God is imaginary. The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today. Delete this and you completely prove my point.
Mighty Bear
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- Oct 20, 2007
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(Ideation;47031)
Stop being delusional
What God does is search the depths of our hearts (1Co 2:10) and I find nothing wrong with the Bible as I interpret it differently. I try to look at the bright side, faith precedes understanding."these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God." 1 Corinthians 2:10 (ESV)
Stop being delusional
What God does is search the depths of our hearts (1Co 2:10) and I find nothing wrong with the Bible as I interpret it differently. I try to look at the bright side, faith precedes understanding."these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God." 1 Corinthians 2:10 (ESV)
(Called 2 Conquer;47237)
Sorry I didn't realize you were female in all honesty you debate like a man. For women that wish to take offense to that statement I suggest you listen to 2 men argue and then to 2 women argue and you will see the styles are distinctly different in the vast majority of instances. I personally do not see my comment as an insult in any way, shape or form but as a compliment but then as a man I prefer the male style of arguing/debating.
I don't take offence at all to it, just thought I'd put the record straight on my gender.
Sorry I didn't realize you were female in all honesty you debate like a man. For women that wish to take offense to that statement I suggest you listen to 2 men argue and then to 2 women argue and you will see the styles are distinctly different in the vast majority of instances. I personally do not see my comment as an insult in any way, shape or form but as a compliment but then as a man I prefer the male style of arguing/debating.
I don't take offence at all to it, just thought I'd put the record straight on my gender.
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