live in shame or die honorably?

[DPMartin]

Who says that?
The US Military?
And every church that puts this country in front of their own Christianity?
It's called brain washing.

really? was the shame in nakedness A&E experienced brain washing?

just in case you want to say something stupid like it doesn't say A&E were in shame, biblically nakedness is unto shame:

Exo_32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

 

[Stranger]

no I don't see, how can there be honor in death when there's no shame in any other flesh to do what is necessary to remain alive no matter the circumstances?

Then you are blind. Because you're not an animal. You're created in the image of God. Thus there is such a thing as 'honor in death'. Animals and man are different...at least...they are supposed to be.

If Jesus Christ did what was necessary to remain alive, where would you be?

Stranger

 

[Windmillcharge]

it seems you are thinking of the results of shame and honor rather than why live in shame or die honorably? or why should living be made to be shame, and death be honorable, no matter what the circumstance? one is taught by those they coexist with honor is better then shame, but there's no shame in any other flesh, to do what is necessary to remain alive

It depends on two things.
Can one aford to be worried about shame/honour and does one live among people who value honour above life.

 

[charity]

'Better die with honour than live with shame.'
This is the proverb.

The Japanese warrior would fall on his sword rather than live with the shame of defeat. In other societies suicide was considered a preferable alternative, to facing a court of law, and the scandal it would bring upon not only oneself, but the family, organisation or government department, for example, connected in some way with the crime committed, or act of cowardice. It was not only personal honour but the honour of country or some other institution which could be affected by the crime committed.

There are some crimes that are deemed to be so offensive that to live with the shame of having committed it, would be impossible, such as being on a list of sexual crimes against children, or being responsible for genocide.

Just thoughts.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

really? was the shame in nakedness A&E experienced brain washing?

just in case you want to say something stupid like it doesn't say A&E were in shame, biblically nakedness is unto shame:

Exo_32:25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies

okay, so you're trying to prove that everyone is naked.
Now what?

 

[DPMartin]

'Better die with honour than live with shame.'
This is the proverb.

The Japanese warrior would fall on his sword rather than live with the shame of defeat. In other societies suicide was considered a preferable alternative, to facing a court of law, and the scandal it would bring upon not only oneself, but the family, organisation or government department, for example, connected in some way with the crime committed, or act of cowardice. It was not only personal honour but the honour of country or some other institution which could be affected by the crime committed.

There are some crimes that are deemed to be so offensive that to live with the shame of having committed it, would be impossible, such as being on a list of sexual crimes against children, or being responsible for genocide.

Just thoughts.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

well that shame for heinous crimes isn't experienced until they are exposed, or they wouldn't do it in the first place. Adam and Eve didn't hide until they heard the Voice of the Lord in the garden. one isn't ashamed of his own heart in the privacy of his own presence. In a society that used to do things like sacrifice children, they were not ashamed amongst their own kind either.


all that said, that's still not why there is shame and honor, only an exercise of the fact that shame and honor are experienced.

 

[DPMartin]

It depends on two things.
Can one aford to be worried about shame/honour and does one live among people who value honour above life.

well A&E hid from the Presence of the Voice of the Lord, why? because they were ashamed. so yea all sons of man (Adam) have to deal with the experience of shame. and God had respect for Abel and Abel's offering so there you go within the first three men on the planet the concern for the two is there. and the other guy Cain was driven out from the face of the earth, according to him. God didn't respect him or his offering and he showed no shame for what happen with his brother.

so yea with the Creator and Judge its a big issue.

 

[charity]

well A&E hid from the Presence of the Voice of the Lord, why? because they were ashamed. so yea all sons of man Adam have to deal with the experience of shame. and God had respect for Abel and Abel's offering so there you go within the first three men on the planet the concern for the two is there.

Hello @DPMartin,

Adam and Eve, only felt shame after eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, prior to that they were in a state of innocence. With knowledge comes responsibility, so the feeling of shame followed.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Helen]

Stranger
↑
I do not understand what you are asking. Explain.

Stranger

no

Priceless...that did actually cause me to choke on my coffee. LOL

 

[Truth]

no I don't see, how can there be honor in death when there's no shame in any other flesh to do what is necessary to remain alive no matter the circumstances?

Basically Shame and or Honor are Just word's to place a Label on a person that we use in social circle's, only for putting people at a level of acceptance! A sinner would be a shameful person, and A righteous one would be an Honorable person, in death and or Life, bottom Line is how will we stack up before Our God and Savior. Every living creature strive's to stay alive, including mankind, so when it come's to death there is no Honor or Shame, Just death!

 

[DPMartin]

Basically Shame and or Honor are Just word's to place a Label on a person that we use in social circle's, only for putting people at a level of acceptance! A sinner would be a shameful person, and A righteous one would be an Honorable person, in death and or Life, bottom Line is how will we stack up before Our God and Savior. Every living creature strive's to stay alive, including mankind, so when it come's to death there is no Honor or Shame, Just death!

Shame:
The painful emotion arising from the consciousness of something dishonouring, ridiculous, or indecorous in one's own conduct or circumstances (or in those of others whose honour or disgrace one regards as one's own), or of being in a situation which offends one's sense of modesty or decency. sense of shame: the consciousness of this emotion, guilty feeling; also, the right perception of what is improper or disgraceful.

without shame there is no repentance is there? actually shame is essential to the Salvation of men.


Cain showed no shame what so ever "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?" even in Cain's plea for his punishment he had no response to the event with Abel only what was to happen to him. like most criminally minded of today, there is no shame in sin. in the case of the Creator and Judge and man, the sons of man are born into sin. and that alone does not cause shame, of which does exist as a thing according to God or He wouldn't mention it like it does (Exo 35:25) and again without shame there is no repentance.

many don't see the need for it being born into the world of someone else's will, but we hold on to the place in the earth that has been given us, therefore now we agree to it's outcome, and purpose by default. and that place given us is not ours, its God's place in the earth. and we are to act in His place in His stead according to His commandments even Jesus' commandments according to Jesus (Joh 14:15). hence why men are born into sin and animals are not. animals and any other living creature in the earth other than man is not required to act in God's stead, or place.
_______________________________________
Honor:
High respect, esteem, or reverence, accorded to exalted worth or rank; deferential admiration or approbation. a. As felt or entertained in the mind for some person or thing.
Respect:
To treat or regard with deference, esteem, or honour; to feel or show respect for.

and as far as honor, God had respect for Abel and his offering. and then there is what the Lord expects of His:


Mal_1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?


so scripture shows that shame and honor are not just words. now how men use such precepts is another thing, but they do exist as a thing that God acknowledges as something.

so why shame and honor?

 

[Truth]

Shame:
The painful emotion arising from the consciousness of something dishonouring, ridiculous, or indecorous in one's own conduct or circumstances (or in those of others whose honour or disgrace one regards as one's own), or of being in a situation which offends one's sense of modesty or decency. sense of shame: the consciousness of this emotion, guilty feeling; also, the right perception of what is improper or disgraceful.

without shame there is no repentance is there? actually shame is essential to the Salvation of men.


Cain showed no shame what so ever "I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?" even in Cain's plea for his punishment he had no response to the event with Abel only what was to happen to him. like most criminally minded of today, there is no shame in sin. in the case of the Creator and Judge and man, the sons of man are born into sin. and that alone does not cause shame, of which does exist as a thing according to God or He wouldn't mention it like it does (Exo 35:25) and again without shame there is no repentance.

many don't see the need for it being born into the world of someone else's will, but we hold on to the place in the earth that has been given us, therefore now we agree to it's outcome, and purpose by default. and that place given us is not ours, its God's place in the earth. and we are to act in His place in His stead according to His commandments even Jesus' commandments according to Jesus (Joh 14:15). hence why men are born into sin and animals are not. animals and any other living creature in the earth other than man is not required to act in God's stead, or place.
_______________________________________
Honor:
High respect, esteem, or reverence, accorded to exalted worth or rank; deferential admiration or approbation. a. As felt or entertained in the mind for some person or thing.
Respect:
To treat or regard with deference, esteem, or honour; to feel or show respect for.

and as far as honor, God had respect for Abel and his offering. and then there is what the Lord expects of His:


Mal_1:6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name?


so scripture shows that shame and honor are not just words. now how men use such precepts is another thing, but they do exist as a thing that God acknowledges as something.

so why shame and honor?

That was a very good response, Articulate, Great representation, It is a emotional tool established within a person, that has the ability to bring about repentance, But what matter has it among people, it is like a prejudice! So again in the end how do we stack up before God and Savior, the Ultimate reveling of one's Heart? Rely liked your response.

 

[DPMartin]

That was a very good response, Articulate, Great representation, It is a emotional tool established within a person, that has the ability to bring about repentance, But what matter has it among people, it is like a prejudice! So again in the end how do we stack up before God and Savior, the Ultimate reveling of one's Heart? Rely liked your response.

as far as stacking up before God, by ourselves we don't, flesh cannot inherit heaven. (this life meaneth squat) the only thing that stacks up before God is that which is of God, His Life in another (those born again). which is honorable and without shame in the Presence of God. but the rest will not survive the "fire" of the Presence of God.

as far as the heart, God sees the Heart, that judgement is His alone. He sees our hearts like we see each other's faces.

but the matter of it amongst people is valuable, and valued by the upright. surly a marriage is repaired if a spouse is a shamed of infidelity , and forgiven. but why would the offender be ashamed? because its the agreement or covenant of the marriage that has been broken and the sin against the agreement has been discovered, or uncovered. there's no shame if there be no nakedness.

if there be an agreement broken, either the offender is ashamed or not. a court judge needs to see shame or not to decide what next.

if there be no agreement, or covenant, or contract, so on and so forth, then there is nothing to be ashamed of is there? one can't be guilty of what one isn't bound to.