Lockdowns...

[ChristisGod]

And from sickness...the effects of sin. Jesus did in fact heal many of their sicknesses; and you cannot deny that.

There is a book on Divine Healing that I got from Calvary Chapel Bible College, by Andrew Murray. It teaches that healing is in fact provided for in the atonement. And it teaches it well; to the point that I am convinced.

Ah the fallacy of appealing to authority.

Scripture not man is the Authority which contradicts your false teaching below on healing sickness. You must deal with these passages and stop ignoring them and running away from them.

Jesus opposes your healing heresy below because He is teaching that the healing needed is Sin in the heart.:

For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:15)

Heal them from what ? sin ie their hearts

Paul had a thorn in the flesh- his poor eyesight that was never healed.

In Philippians 2:27 Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death.

Timothy was encouraged to use a little wine for his stomach and frequent ailments. 1 Timothy 5:23

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

 

[Enoch111]

are you implying a believer will not get covid ?

No, he is not implying that at all. He is telling believers not to be fearful. And that is good.

This entire scamdemic scenario was designed for fear-mongering and panic and the destruction of lives and livelihoods. Lockdowns, masks, social distancing, etc. have all proven to be worthless. And within this, all the information being published by the public health experts has been either bogus or misleading. The meaning of what is a medical "case" has been thoroughly corrupted while the HCQ combo treatment which actually works has been sabotaged.

If the truth were to be released (which is not likely to happen) the world would know that a major hoax was perpetrated in order to put people under the tyrannical control of governments at all levels. This new round of lockdowns is proof that they tyrants love COVID.

 

[ChristisGod]

No, he is not implying that at all. He is telling believers not to be fearful. And that is good.

This entire scamdemic scenario was designed for fear-mongering and panic and the destruction of lives and livelihoods. Lockdowns, masks, social distancing, etc. have all proven to be worthless. And within this, all the information being published by the public health experts has been either bogus or misleading. The meaning of what is a medical "case" has been thoroughly corrupted while the HCQ combo treatment which actually works has been sabotaged.

If the truth were to be released (which is not likely to happen) the world would know that a major hoax was perpetrated in order to put people under the tyrannical control of governments at all levels. This new round of lockdowns is proof that they tyrants love COVID.

so you are saying covid19 is fake and not real and no one has died from it or been deathly sick from it ?

 

[JohnDB]

There's a ten mile difference between fear and humility. They are NOT the same.

Which is the foundation of the backhanded way I've been saying what I have been.

In humility we respect the pandemic God has allowed to rule at the moment. We don't have to like it...but completely understand that it wouldn't be here without God's allowance.

We aren't God's special snowflake either.

Only the most arrogant amongst us would believe such a thing. It flies in the face of many scriptures. I can remember clearly where it explains in the Old Testament where the Israelites were told several times that their inheritance of the "Land flowing with milk and honey" had absolutely nothing to do with their level of Holiness or righteousness.

However, the plagues, wars, and pestilence they got while out in the wilderness were their fault. And how many times did Moses have to intercede on their behalf so God wouldn't wipe them out? Even John the Baptist warned the Israelites/Jews of the exact same thing...God was more than willing, capable, and able to do just that.

So...to NOT quarantine is thumbing your nose at God...no wonder so many pastors and congregations have gotten sick to the point of death. They, by scriptures, are to receive double for disobedience than the heathen.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

There is a reality in holy scripture that believers in Christ are not under the law (Romans 6:14) and that the throne of iniquity frameth mischief by a law (Psalm 94:20). Therefore let the church rise up in civil disobedience as in the days of Ghandi; and let us continue to not forsake the assembly of believers, as the habit of some is; and let us spur one another on to love and good works; and all the more as we see the day approaching. Let us remember that the apostles on two occasions told the scribes and Pharisees who sought to undermine their religious freedom, that "we must obey God rather than men."

Let us not fear this virus, saints. We have promises from the Lord in Psalms 91 that if we are faithful it will not even be able to touch us. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Let us rise up as saints and be the church to this lost and dying world around us. Will they hate us more? It is very likely that they will. But we are not subject to this virus and neither will we be spreaders of it if we are faithful to the Lord. We can continue to wear masks and utilize social distancing for the sake of the unredeemed around us, but we are not to be fearful ourselves. And as concerning the faithful assembly of believers, this is something that is mandated by holy scripture for the faithful...let us not forsake the assembly lest we find that the church was taken up from the many church buildings on a Sunday and we were not there to partake of that glorious escape.

Let us continue on in fellowship. Let us continue to worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. Let us keep Jesus' command to persevere: for if we keep this command, will we not be counted worthy to escape those things that are soon to come upon the earth?

YOu are so very wrong!

Romans 13
King James Version

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


If a government was singling out churches only, then yes we should meet clandestinely as many of our brethren do in many countries.

But this is a general health related issue and the limits go to everyone! Therefore the church should honor the dictates of government and set a good example.

 

[Enoch111]

so you are saying covid19 is fake and not real and no one has died from it or been deathly sick from it ?

No. What I am saying is that COVID is just like another flu. With simple ordinary hygiene and precautions, plus the free availability of the HCQ combo package at no cost over the counter, there would have been no need for all the other nonsense. The only other precaution would have been to ask those who ACTUALLY showed symptoms to (1) stay home, (2) take the HCQ treatment, and (3) look after their health.

A genuine medical "case" means that someone actually showed symptoms of an infection and requested treatment. But the meaning of case was corrupted to inflate the figures. The meaning of COVID deaths was also corrupted. Now anyone who has antibodies in their system is a "case". But antibodies are there to fight infection, and do not mean that the person is a hazard to anyone. And even a person who died of a heart attack becomes a COVID death!

Furthermore, the primary group at risk was those over 65, and specifically those over 85. Most of these individuals are retired or in nursing homes. Which means that the rest of the population should have been told to function normally, so that herd immunity could be built up. And schools should never have been shut down.

 

[Ziggy]

I don't have the rona. I haven't had the rona. And I'm not going to get the rona.
I'm not getting the vaccine either.

However, it is appointed unto man once to die.
We don't get a pass.. sorry.
The flesh body.. ashes to ashes and dust to dust.
You want to make sure your spirit is right with the Lord.
Because your spirit will be judged by what you did while you was in your flesh.

I'm not afraid covid. I'm not afraid to die.

Hugs

 

[ChristisGod]

No. What I am saying is that COVID is just like another flu. With simple ordinary hygiene and precautions, plus the free availability of the HCQ combo package at no cost over the counter, there would have been no need to for all the other nonsense. The only other precaution would have been to ask those who ACTUALLY showed symptoms to (1) stay home, (2) take the HCQ treatment, and (3) look after their health.

A genuine medical "case" means that someone actually showed symptoms of an infection and requested treatment. But the meaning of case was corrupted to inflate the figures. The meaning of COVID deaths was also corrupted. Now anyone who has antibodies in their system is a "case". But antibodies are there to fight infection, and do not mean that the person is a hazard to anyone. And even a person who died of a heart attack becomes a COVID death!

Furthermore, the primary group at risk was those over 65, and specifically those over 85. Most of these individuals are retired or in nursing homes. Which means that the rest of the population should have been told to function normally, so that herd immunity could be built up. And schools should never have been shut down.

So you have no personal experience with covid19 or a family member who has been sick from it correct ?

 

[Ziggy]

My 85 year old Father and his other half both had a very bad something back in Januaryish..
They both recovered and are doing fine.
My daughter and her husband both got sick 2 times from Jaunaryish to Aprilish.
They both recovered and are doing fine.
I know no one in person who has died from covid.

Hugs

 

[justbyfaith]

I perceive the quarantine a rather minor "punishment".

Breaking this minor punishment involves a much more serious punishment...

And yet I'm guessing that misery loves company.

What might that more serious punishment be in light of Psalms 91 (which I have already quoted in this thread)?

Jesus opposes your healing heresy below because He is teaching that the healing needed is Sin in the heart.:

For this people’s heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them. (Matthew 13:15)

Heal them from what ? sin ie their hearts

And the effects of sin.

Paul had a thorn in the flesh- his poor eyesight that was never healed.

In Philippians 2:27 Epaphroditus was sick to the point of death.

Timothy was encouraged to use a little wine for his stomach and frequent ailments. 1 Timothy 5:23

2 Timothy 4:20
Erastus stayed in Corinth, and I left Trophimus sick in Miletus.

Epaphroditus did not die from his sickness; and neither did Trophimus. We find Trophimus in Jerusalem after Paul left Miletus in the book of Acts.

As for Paul's thorn, there is no inference that it was a disease or sickness; many believe that his thorn in the flesh was a person who plagued him (perhaps Alexander the coppersmith, 2 Timothy 4:14) with persecution.

So...to NOT quarantine is thumbing your nose at God...no wonder so many pastors and congregations have gotten sick to the point of death. They, by scriptures, are to receive double for disobedience than the heathen.

To forsake the assembly is to thumb your nose at God.

YOu are so very wrong!

Romans 13
King James Version

13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


If a government was singling out churches only, then yes we should meet clandestinely as many of our brethren do in many countries.

But this is a general health related issue and the limits go to everyone! Therefore the church should honor the dictates of government and set a good example.

Act 4:19, But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

Act 5:29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Heb 10:24, And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

What might that more serious punishment be in light of Psalms 91 (which I have already quoted in this thread)?



And the effects of sin.



Epaphroditus did not die from his sickness; and neither did Trophimus. We find Trophimus in Jerusalem after Paul left Miletus in the book of Acts.

As for Paul's thorn, there is no inference that it was a disease or sickness; many believe that his thorn in the flesh was a person who plagued him (perhaps Alexander the coppersmith, 2 Timothy 4:14) with persecution.



To forsake the assembly is to thumb your nose at God.



Act 4:19, But Peter and John answered and said unto them, Whether it be right in the sight of God to hearken unto you more than unto God, judge ye.

Act 5:29, Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.

Heb 10:24, And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25, Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Taking verses out of their context makes you look foolish! The two acts verses are about sharing the gospel and speaking about Jesus. I agree with those verses in their context and not pulled out like you did to misapply them.

With Zoom meetings and churches going virtual, we are not forsaking teh assembling of ourselves together. Hebrews is an act of not wanting to go to church, not refraining because of public health crises.

And your answer that God will protect us is just downright wrong as well! If you want to tempt the Lord by acting in a careless manner, we just may see you in heaven after you contract and die from the corona-virus.

If people carry an infectious disease, pastors tell them to stay home until they are better! We simply do not know who may be carrying or not. But to put teh elderly and the vunerable to this disease at risk by your wrong heremeneutical understanding is sin.

 

[justbyfaith]

Taking verses out of their context makes you look foolish! The two acts verses are about sharing the gospel and speaking about Jesus. I agree with those verses in their context and not pulled out like you did to misapply them.

Going to church is a venue by which we share the gospel. And our time to worship the Lord is indispensable. How do we evangelize people in the normal manner if we cannot invite them to go to church with us (whether before or after they get saved)? Most people don't respond to exhortations to watch something on the internet. We need to get people into church and we need to be in church ourselves.

With Zoom meetings and churches going virtual, we are not forsaking teh assembling of ourselves together. Hebrews is an act of not wanting to go to church, not refraining because of public health crises.

Do you believe that the word of the Lord is not timeless? And that the Lord did not foresee our day and time when He had the author of Hebrews write Hebrews 10:25?

And your answer that God will protect us is just downright wrong as well! If you want to tempt the Lord by acting in a careless manner, we just may see you in heaven after you contract and die from the corona-virus.

I think that you are in denial of the promises that the Lord has given to us in Psalms 91. if you won't apprehend them by faith, you may be among those who have faith for salvation but when the virus hits, you may actually die from it because you don't have faith for healing.

If people carry an infectious disease, pastors tell them to stay home until they are better! We simply do not know who may be carrying or not. But to put teh elderly and the vunerable to this disease at risk by your wrong heremeneutical understanding is sin.

I am not advocating going to church if you have symptoms of the virus (I did not go myself when I thought I might have it; even before the first lockdowns here in California). I have said in the OP that we ought to still wear masks and practice social distancing for the sake of the unredeemed around us. But for the redeemed, Psalms 91 is indeed a promise that is given to us. Have you read that chapter and taken it to heart?

Consider this:

1Jo 4:18, There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

 

[ChristisGod]

What might that more serious punishment be in light of Psalms 91 (which I have already quoted in this thread)?

So according to the psalm you quoted no believer has ever died in a natural disaster correct ?

 

[JohnDB]

forsake the assembly is to thumb your nose at God.

Ummmm
Exactly why do you think that I have forsaken the assembly?

Obviously you really need to stop false accusations. Satan is a false accuser too... maybe you shouldn't act like him.

 

[justbyfaith]

So according to the psalm you quoted no believer has ever died in a natural disaster correct ?

Does it say that in that Psalm? If so, then yes, you are correct (for the scriptures cannot be broken).

Actually, let me say this: promises like this are obtained by faith in them (Hebrews 11:33, 2 Peter 1:3-4, 2 Corinthians 1:20, Romans 4:20-22).

 

[justbyfaith]

Ummmm
Exactly why do you think that I have forsaken the assembly?

Obviously you really need to stop false accusations. Satan is a false accuser too... maybe you shouldn't act like him.

I didn't say that you have done so...only that it is what you will do if you heed the lockdowns that are being instituted all over the land.

 

[JohnDB]

I didn't say that you have done so...only that it is what you will do if you heed the lockdowns that are being instituted all over the land.

No....wrong again!

 

[justbyfaith]

No....wrong again!

How so...if you do not assemble at church, where will you assemble?

There is no substitute for assembling in person and seeing the happy faces of your brothers and sisters in church; and worshiping the Lord under the umbrella of having a worship leader lead in the songs.

It is also a major way that the Lord wins souls to Himself...I know of many who have walked into a church building where people were worshiping the Lord with abandonment and they got born again on the spot. There is something about the presence of the Lord that converts people. And when we praise Him, He inhabits our praises (that is in the Bible, I just don't remember where).

The devil is working overtime to take this tool of evangelism away from the church.

 

[ChristisGod]

How so...if you do not assemble at church, where will you assemble?

There is no substitute for assembling in person and seeing the happy faces of your brothers and sisters in church; and worshiping the Lord under the umbrella of having a worship leader lead in the songs.

It is also a major way that the Lord wins souls to Himself...I know of many who have walked into a church building where people were worshiping the Lord with abandonment and they got born again on the spot. There is something about the presence of the Lord that converts people. And when we praise Him, He inhabits our praises (that is in the Bible, I just don't remember where).

The devil is working overtime to take this tool of evangelism away from the church.

Like they did in the N.T. they met in homes.

 

[justbyfaith]

Like they did in the N.T. they met in homes.

Those were churches, in case you are not aware.

Do you propose that megachurches split off into a million home studies?