Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture

[amadeus]

literal?
lol

I really dislike the word "literal" on a subject like this because people often presume it means a precise definite meaning only as for instance of a phrase of verse of written scripture. According to most men, eating natural/carnal/physical food [e.g. bread from grain] is a necessity for life... but this of course is what we want to call natural/carnal/physical life. People, even people who believe in God, and make an effort to serve Him, mix that life up with the Life that Jesus says that he brought abundantly [as per John 10:10]. Related? Perhaps but definitely NOT as I see it, the same. Jesus did make a distinction, but sometimes he bent a bit in his words because he knew that people... even his disciples did not know what he was talking about... As there are two types of life/Life really according to people who know God, there are two types of death... Consider the difference between sleep and death here:

"These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead." John 11:11-14

Paul's words explain the words of Jesus for the parables of Jesus really were messages in an unknown tongues requiring an interpretation:

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

 

[amadeus]

we might see

ah i'd goto the other way

Meaning the Valium? My wife was on that by prescription once many years ago. I don't remember the details, but she did not like it.

virtually no one who reads this has or will ever have the experience of being blind for a single day in their lives, a, except for those who lose their sight...sub 40 million completely blind right now Simply puts mushrooms to shame bro. Great way to meet your monster imo. 3 days is an experience, and 40 would surely be life altering. All of your other senses undergo a um like boot camp i guess, google knows ask him.

Harder to lie to a blind person.

So the whole point imo is to gain another sense of sight by bypassing eyes, and thus be led in a new way. I've never done so much as ten minutes mind you :/

but I would go into it with a vision, embrace the challenges or whatever. But you'll be wanting some nerve tonic, we got three big comfreys out front ready to harvest now! Guess i could send a free lb dried to anyone who wanted to pay shipping. Fresh, even, why not

Srsly pushing one off of a cliff

No, I have had no personal experience with being blind myself, not natural blindness anyway. I have known a lady for the past several years whose eyesight had degenerated to where she was legally blind before I met her. I would go across our complex to her apartment twice a week to walk her to our coffee group meetings. Her blindness had come on her slowly, but when we met her she could recognize friends and family by the shape by the dark silhouettes still visible to her... and of course their voices for while. Her hearing was also diminishing in spite of the hearing aids she wore.

My wife fixed up a special place for her with a large lighted magnifying glass to try to read her super large print Bible, but she simply could not see it. Her TV stayed off because she could not only not see the people on the screen, she could not hear their voices well enough to make out any conversations. We used to talk a lot, but as her hearing went out and her short term memory worsened, she became a very lonely lady, but close to God, if I am any judge of the matter. She passed away quietly in her sleep in May of 2018. My wife and I will of course never forget her. She never complained of her blindness except for wishing she could read her Bible. How is that for seeing as through a glass darkly?

apparently alcohol is a completely different experience, etc. everything changes

I was a heavy drinker before I married and tried to be after I married, but when my wife backed off from it eventually I did as well. That was the beginning of our real walk with God.

 

[Nancy]

Meaning the Valium? My wife was on that by prescription once many years ago. I don't remember the details, but she did not like it.



No, I have had no personal experience with being blind myself, not natural blindness anyway. I have known a lady for the past several years whose eyesight had degenerated to where she was legally blind before I met her. I would go across our complex to her apartment twice a week to walk her to our coffee group meetings. Her blindness had come on her slowly, but when we met her she could recognize friends and family by the shape by the dark silhouettes still visible to her... and of course their voices for while. Her hearing was also diminishing in spite of the hearing aids she wore.

My wife fixed up a special place for her with a large lighted magnifying glass to try to read her super large print Bible, but she simply could not see it. Her TV stayed off because she could not only not see the people on the screen, she could not hear their voices well enough to make out any conversations. We used to talk a lot, but as her hearing went out and her short term memory worsened, she became a very lonely lady, but close to God, if I am any judge of the matter. She passed away quietly in her sleep in May of 2018. My wife and I will of course never forget her. She never complained of her blindness except for wishing she could read her Bible. How is that for seeing as through a glass darkly?


I was a heavy drinker before I married and tried to be after I married, but when my wife backed off from it eventually I did as well. That was the beginning of our real walk with God.

What an awesome, yet sad story about your friend. Talk about faith and reliance on Him who gives that peace that surpasses all understanding. I could only wish to be as graceful as her through such a thing.
"How is that for seeing as through a glass darkly?
"Yeah, how about that huh?
♥

 

[brakelite]

ah i'm currently functioning on They developed together gotta v or three? ty

KJV Ezekiel 28
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

KJV Hebrews 8
2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

KJV Exodus 37
The Ark
1 And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
6 And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.
7 And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat;
8 One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
9 And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims.

KJV Exodus 25
19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof.
20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be.

From the above information I think it safe to conclude that Lucifer was one of those two covering cherubs, appointed as guardians over the throne of God and the dissemination of His authority. Until iniquity was found in him. Where that pride... That selfishness... That lust for power and worship... Where that came from is a part of the mystery of iniquity I think. But it started in heaven. Lucifer, now Satan, was a holy angel with a job... It seemed for summer inexplicable reason he came to the conclusion he was worthy of more. Which became such an innate part of our own human condition don't you think?

 

[bbyrd009]

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold

What is missing from the same materials used in the foundation, just in passing. Do go on...

 

[bbyrd009]

by the iniquity of thy traffick;

See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

which means a...completely diff thing than what we are reading, at least imo

hey, found a great way to toggle between multiple threads one might be posting in lol
dunno if you noticed or not

 

[bbyrd009]

KJV Exodus 37
The Ark
1 And Bezaleel made the ark of shittim wood: two cubits and a half was the length of it, and a cubit and a half the breadth of it, and a cubit and a half the height of it:
6 And he made the mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half was the length thereof, and one cubit and a half the breadth thereof.

so, subject change there imo, two diff constructions?

 

[Nancy]

which means a...completely diff thing than what we are reading, at least imo

hey, found a great way to toggle between multiple threads one might be posting in lol
dunno if you noticed or not

"hey, found a great way to toggle between multiple threads one might be posting in lol
dunno if you noticed or not"
How??

 

[brakelite]

which means a...completely diff thing than what we are reading, at least imo

My first quote, regarding Satan, the iniquity of thy traffic, alludes to his lies, sophistry and slander, which he used first to cast doubt on God's ability and fairness in his rule, (as all rebels must do to foster rebellion, and which he did to Eve insinuating God was with-holding something that was to her benefit) , and secondly to bring together the support he needed to carry it on.
The second quote refers to the pattern shown Moses which he strictly copied in order to build the tabernacle. That pattern was a miniature blueprint of the heavenly sanctuary...the earthly being a copy. Thus when John saw a door open in heaven, and he saw the ark of the covenant, what he was seeing was the throne of God. The ark and the mercy seat being a copy whereupon the presence of God dwelt in the tabernacle, and inside of which was God's law. The ark of His testimony which John saw in vision must also be the home to God's laws, the foundation of His rule and authority. To claim by modern Christians that that law is now no longer valid for the Christian to obey, is in effect carrying on the lying work and slander of the covering cherub that abandoned his post in watching over that throne and law, and later saying to Eve that she could be like God without any reference to obedience. Which is what we hear from Christian pulpits today.

 

[bbyrd009]

My first quote, regarding Satan, the iniquity of thy traffic, alludes to his lies, sophistry and slander,

"his," huh...hmm

The second quote refers to the pattern shown Moses which he strictly copied in order to build the tabernacle

See the thing is bro, things are, what we see with out Two Eyes, which i meant to write "our" but I'm leaving it. Maybe the similarity in Imaginate and Realizating or something, dunno. But you are like for sure that those mean someone coulda took a pitcher, see, and that possibility, likelihood, surety keeps one from the manna. Imo, cuz i don't know. You surely know Bc you Read it from some guys who knew you would, and no offense meant here at all ok, but ima trust what they knew ok

 

[bbyrd009]

Thus when John saw a door open in heaven, and he saw the ark of the covenant, what he was seeing was the throne of God.

Word. Seeing and not seeing tho i guess. that one. Better to enter the kingdom the other way prolly. Get why whores and public servants are getting there first

The ark and the mercy seat being a copy whereupon the presence of God dwelt in the tabernacle, and inside of which was God's law. The ark of His testimony which John saw in vision must also be the home to God's laws, the foundation of His rule and authority. To claim by modern Christians that that law is now no longer valid for the Christian to obey, is in effect carrying on the lying work and slander of the covering cherub that abandoned his post in watching over that throne and law, and later saying to Eve that she could be like God without any reference to obedience. Which is what we hear from Christian pulpits today.

Word. Five and five make ten, right. but also two, huh, there's really only two too. What is it?
will lead anyone to the Pearl, i bet.

but no one seems to care about that, herenow anyway, that gate is locked up tight huh.

the kings are coming, ok, they are walking right across, as we speak!
you wanna see something with your Two Eyes then look.
you wanna hear...no, guess you prolly don't, dunno, but hear from your peer,
what are you hearing about the kings of the east?
who sold their robes?

tell me bout dem, Preacher!

ok now a seeker might find some other povs there, some justifications maybe, i don't know, but imagine predicting the drying up of the...Mississippi, i guess? Dang guess i'm pissing others off now, prolly think i have like some hand to guide them or something, all i got is a foot lol. Time to shake the dust off already, sigh
walk, and be no more

 

[bbyrd009]

tell me, can you feel that?

I tried to find something by Lawrence Welk, honest i did, ony i guess he is in that little tv that's going
out

download him. (come slowly)

"dont slow down
Even if it's only to escape
just down, low down
Before somebody steals your place man..."

(i said 'ye are gods,' they turned down MoreMoreMore too, wrote that song instead, turned down ten figs i bet!)

 

[bbyrd009]

K that still isn't perfect i guess, gotta move on tho huh, don't make perfect the enemy an all that

 

[bbyrd009]

I really dislike the word "literal" on a subject like this because people often presume it means a precise definite meaning only as for instance of a phrase of verse of written scripture.

i love you, man
Bible Search: Literal

According to most men, eating natural/carnal/physical food [e.g. bread from grain] is a necessity for life

ya, men have all kinda wonky ideas i guess.

but this of course is what we want to call natural/carnal/physical life

too many concepts here for me to comment like id like, but animals are def alive, too, same way we are. sort of anyway. Ok guess not

I really dislike the word "literal" on a subject like this because people often presume it means a precise definite meaning only as for instance of a phrase of verse of written scripture. According to most men, eating natural/carnal/physical food [e.g. bread from grain] is a necessity for life... but this of course is what we want to call natural/carnal/physical life. People, even people who believe in God, and make an effort to serve Him, mix that life up with the Life that Jesus says that he brought abundantly [as per John 10:10].

ah, the efforts, yeh. tomorrow maybe we should goto another town and do this or that, conduct a little bidness maybe, waddya say A

Related? Perhaps but definitely NOT as I see it, the same. Jesus did make a distinction, but sometimes he bent a bit in his words because he knew that people... even his disciples did not know what he was talking about

Apostles, no less, right. Twelve of them even. oh but know there can only ever be twelve
even though Two more are manifested right before our eyes, i mean jesus already, the literal, it hurts.
Ima gine how um retarded Well I Was Just Reading Literally is gonna sound In That Day lol

As there are two types of life/Life really according to people who know God, there are two types of death... Consider the difference between sleep and death here:

i mean how many more clues does a blind person need?

if you preach anywhere, could you post a notice first, on your page maybe? Five days or so if you possibly could, ty. I could also UL a recording, in any format, that i had in my hand. ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Paul's words explain the words of Jesus for the parables of Jesus really were messages in an unknown tongues requiring an interpretation:

He seemed to speak perfect English to m...no, wait

"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

wth does that mean?
what does that mean?

But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

wth does that mean too?
How does he know there's no interpreter until after?

 

[bbyrd009]

Paul's words explain the words of Jesus for the parables of Jesus really were messages in an unknown tongues requiring an interpretation

:0

 

[bbyrd009]

Meaning the Valium?

Ha, nope

My wife was on that by prescription once many years ago. I don't remember the details, but she did not like it.

Imagine what blind is then, i guess. Blind without a guide no less. I could make your wife love Valium i bet. Bet i could get her to plead for one even lol

No, I have had no personal experience with being blind myself, not natural blindness anyway. I have known a lady for the past several years whose eyesight had degenerated to where she was legally blind before I met her. I would go across our complex to her apartment twice a week to walk her to our coffee group meetings.

ahso
that's where you got that idea huh.

he became a very lonely lady, but close to God

exactly how we all go i think. Details might be diff. A blindfold might sure get one prepped. getting called now dangit, and arg

She never complained of her blindness except for wishing she could read her Bible. How is that for seeing as through a glass darkly?

dark as it gets i guess...we all choose how we go imo. Wish she coulda watched Heal, but then she maybe found a better way, for her. I don't know.

Shine on, A, gotta go. Srsly on that preachy thing k

 

[amadeus]

i love you, man
Bible Search: Literal

ya, men have all kinda wonky ideas i guess.

too many concepts here for me to comment like id like, but animals are def alive, too, same way we are. sort of anyway. Ok guess not

Yes, what we call lower animals are alive too. Consider who was saved on the Ark besides the 8 members of Noah's family. The beasts, the lower animals, and who are we, or who have we been?

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecc 3:18-20

And what are we do about our own beastly nature?

"[Wisdom] She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

ah, the efforts, yeh. tomorrow maybe we should goto another town and do this or that, conduct a little bidness maybe, waddya say A
Apostles, no less, right. Twelve of them even. oh but know there can only ever be twelve
even though Two more are manifested right before our eyes, i mean jesus already, the literal, it hurts.
Ima gine how um retarded Well i was just Reading Literally is gonna sound In That Day lol
i mean how many more clues does a blind person need?

At the start of our walk with God, and perhaps throughout much of it in our flesh, our vision is limited as through a glass darkly but that is still a vision, is it not? But without even that vision?

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

People who say they are Christian and that they are saved are often stuck because they have listened to men too much instead of to God. A Doctor of Theology may sound good and his knowledge learned in school may not hurt but does it mean he cannot be wrong or questioned, does it?

Hey I am not saying that I am always right and they are always wrong, but does that degree from some Bible school, or the lack thereof, make that much difference in how close or how far away a person walks [or Not] with God?

if you preach anywhere, could you post a notice first, on your page maybe? Five days or so if you possibly could, ty. I could also UL a recording, in any format, that i had in my hand. ty

No page for me and no planned or expected preaching:
I was preaching/teaching most Sundays for several years until about 7 months ago. Anyone was allowed to teach there under the old pastor... no prior consent required. When they took out my old pastor I stood with the old fellow all the way out the door. Some places would doubtless welcome me so long as I kept my mouth shut, but how many would allow me to speak?

Supposedly a young man was recording most of the time in that little church house when any preacher/teacher or other was talking, but he regularly reused the CDs after a few weeks putting new recordings over the old ones. He did stay on when I left but with his personal his bias in favor of those who ousted our pastor he would scarcely be reachable even if there were any recorded CDs remaining [doubtful].

I tell you true that I would rather sit under that frail, forgetful old man [my ousted pastor], who loved God, than under any of the replacements who got what they wanted rather than what was needed according to God...at least as I have seen it. Sorry... but there would be no recordings and unless God opens a door, there are not likely to be any... but I won't second guess God. I meet people here and there for coffee or elsewhere and if I talk much at all it is usually about God. Perhaps a door will be opened … I leave that also in God's hands.

 

[amadeus]

@bbyrd009

amadeus said: ↑
Paul's words explain the words of Jesus for the parables of Jesus really were messages in an unknown tongues requiring an interpretation:

bbyrd009 said:
He seemed to speak perfect English to m...no, wait

"And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?"
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." Matt 13:10-11

To whom is it given to know? Perhaps the one whom God speaks! Some may read the scriptures or hear an anointed preacher and not really understand a thing. Why is that? Are our American preachers all speaking Russian or Chinese? Would it have helped the ones to whom "it is not given" if the original scriptures had been written in modern English rather than in languages that required a translation by some man?

amadeus said: ↑
"If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

bbyrd009 said:
wth does that mean?
what does that mean?

What does this mean?
"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

The "in my name", I believe is the key, but how many explanations for that little phrase will we find on this little forum?

Was King Saul of Israel ever "in His name"? Was King David ever "in His name"? For the former perhaps, yes, early in his reign. For latter it would seem to me that he was more consistently "in His name" even after making some terrible mistakes [sins?]. Some one NOT in His name likely misses God's message to man no matter who the preacher and no matter what Bible version he may be reading. The ones receiving the interpretation, the ones where Jesus is in their midst are the ones given to know mysteries [God's mysteries].

amadeus said: ↑
But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:27-28

bbyrd009 said:
wth does that mean too?
How does he know there's no interpreter until after?

Who are His sheep? Are not His sheep able to recognize and understand His voice? They do not hear the voices of strangers, do they?

"And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers." John 10:4-5

Perhaps not everyone who claims to be a sheep is, or some are very small lambs yet needing to move toward maturity?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, what we call lower animals are alive too.

mortal life anyway, yeh

Consider who was saved on the Ark besides the 8 members of Noah's family. The beasts, the lower animals, and who are we, or who have we been?

consider the possibility of that being the story of man's emergence, as maybe sacreligious as that might sound at first; A&E as the very beginning, Eve the mother of all life, Adam as the red stuff. ha or i mean yes i agree? lol

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again." Ecc 3:18-20

i'd read that in a couple all the others too maybe, but there it is

And what are we do about our own beastly nature?

"[Wisdom] She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:2

"He must increase, but I must decrease." John 3:30

the 8 members of Noah's family

and 2 are 10 huh