That biblically impossible
There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 Jn 16:13
Luke 1:43
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There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 Jn 16:13
St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16
1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
How foolish! You have elevated the fallen human reason to a position that allows you to reinterpret Scripture whenver you feel like it!
But even Gods Word has something to say about that:
Proverbs 3:5-6
King James Version
5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
1 Corinthians 1:18-21
King James Version
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
Psalm 119:104-105
King James Version
104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Fundamental faith is the height of divine reason! it casts down human reason and takes up the divine!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Wrong again but think that as long as you want.
The church was founded on Peters Statement that jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. You were shown that from Scripture- now you are accountable to that truth.
there were no popes from Pentecost to after Constantine- The Domincans proved that true as the list of popes came from teh false document known as the donation of Constantine!
Peter is already administering the kingdom
Already acting in the person of Christ even acting as mediator
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Matt 17:24 And when they were come to Capernaum, they that received tribute money came to Peter, and said, Doth not your master pay tribute?
25 He saith, Yes. And when he was come into the house, Jesus prevented him, saying, What thinkest thou, Simon? of whom do the kings of the earth take custom or tribute? of their own children, or of strangers?
26 Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.
27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.
It is Jesus Christ who identifies peter with himself!
Jesus Christ gives the keys of the kingdom to peter matt 16:18-19 making him prime minister applying Isa 22:21-22 to peter
It’s Christ who does this
Why is the name of peter even mentioned?
Why does Christ give him the keys of jurisdictional authority that the prime minister holds under the king to administer the kingdom?
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22 jurisdictional authority of the keys and called father
Matt 28:19 go teach baptize
Jn 20:21-23 same mission power and authority as christ
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 successors of Moses have the jurisdictional authority and the power to bind and loose which Christ says must be obeyed, then taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles and their successors
Applies only to Peter as “prince of the apostles”!
Peter and his successors are the Leader of the apostles and the head of the church until Christ returns!
Matt 10:2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter,
Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: (plural Peter and his successors)
32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Lk 22:32 Christ prayed for Peter!
Peter is head of the church!
Isa 22:21-22 21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Matt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Matt 23:1 power and authority of the kingdom known in the keys and binding and loosing, Matt 21:43 kingdom shall be taken from you given to another who will bear fruit. (Peter the apostles in holy church Lk 22:29)
Matt 17:27 Jesus identified peter with himself.
Matt 16:17 Peter alone received revelation from the Father
Lk 22:32 Peter to strengthen his brethren (the apostles)
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep
Peter exercises his authority over the apostles and the church!
Acts 1:15
Acts 3:4
Acts 5:5 5:10
Acts 15:7
ONLY TO PETER CHRIST SAID: THOU ART PETER AND UPON THIS ROCK I WILL BUILT MY CHURCH, AND THE GATES OF HELL SHALL NOT PREVAIL AGAINST IT!Matt 16:18
Peter is the prime minister, father, and head of the church on earth until Christ returns Isa 22:21-22
Seat of peter remains Until Christ returns
Matt 28:19-20
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
4 important questions:
1) How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
2) How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
3) How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
4) why did Christ give the keys to Peter (and only to Peter) keys of jurisdictional authority. Isa 22:21-22 why even bother to mention Peter if he is not involved?
Explain Jn 20:21 Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! “As the father sent me, so I send you”!
Matt 28:19 christ communicates his authority to peter and the apostles to teach all nations, baptize all disciples!
Jn 20:21-23 apostles even have authority to forgive sins
Eph 2:20 church built on the apostles
Matt 23 the authority and power of the successors of Moses required to be obeyed are taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
• John 1:1 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God.
God, as presented in the Bible, is an eternal person, i.e. He always was, He
always is, and He always will be. In other words God cannot die nor be
removed from existence because He is immune to death.
Those characteristics are just as true of the Word as they are of God
because the Word is God.
Also; God is not physical; He is spirit instead. So then, the Word is spirit too
because the Word is God.
So then, when God took on the characteristics of a human per Gen 3:15 and
John 1:14, nothing about Himself was altered. He remained a person, He
remained eternal, He remained in existence, He remained immune to death,
and He remained spirit; all because God's characteristics are permanent.
Now this really complicates things because in order for the Word to be fully
Man, it requires that he become human in every respect, including
individuality; i.e. the Word had to make himself a distinctly different person;
otherwise it would be fraud to attest that Jesus Christ is fully Man and fully
God; plus, Phil 2:6-8 would be confusing.
» One of my primary objections to the so-called hypostatic union is that it
doesn't allow Christ to be an individual with a human heart, a human mind,
a human soul, and a human will of his own-- which would be to my
disadvantage because it would prevent him from being the kind of priest
that I can relate to per 1Tim 2:5 and Heb 2:16-18.
_
• John 1:1 . . In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was God.
God, as presented in the Bible, is an eternal person, i.e. He always was, He
always is, and He always will be. In other words God cannot die nor be
removed from existence because He is immune to death.
Those characteristics are just as true of the Word as they are of God
because the Word is God.
Also; God is not physical; He is spirit instead. So then, the Word is spirit too
because the Word is God.
So then, when God took on the characteristics of a human per Gen 3:15 and
John 1:14, nothing about Himself was altered. He remained a person, He
remained eternal, He remained in existence, He remained immune to death,
and He remained spirit; all because God's characteristics are permanent.
Now this really complicates things because in order for the Word to be fully
Man, it requires that he become human in every respect, including
individuality; i.e. the Word had to make himself a distinctly different person;
otherwise it would be fraud to attest that Jesus Christ is fully Man and fully
God; plus, Phil 2:6-8 would be confusing.
» One of my primary objections to the so-called hypostatic union is that it
doesn't allow Christ to be an individual with a human heart, a human mind,
a human soul, and a human will of his own-- which would be to my
disadvantage because it would prevent him from being the kind of priest
that I can relate to per 1Tim 2:5 and Heb 2:16-18.
_
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God is one nature in three persons
The second person also became man
Having 2 natures in one person with two wills
Christ Jesus is fully God and fully man
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
If true that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures, then it should
be true that the Word is one person with two natures because Christ is the
Word; and if so then God should be one person with two natures because
the Word is God.
By extension, the Holy Spirit would be one person with two natures because
the Holy Spirit is God, i.e. the entire triune Godhead would be thee persons with
two natures each.
When the Word became human, it caused ramifications all the way to the top.
_
If true that Jesus Christ is one person with two natures, then it should
be true that the Word is one person with two natures because Christ is the
Word; and if so then God should be one person with two natures because
the Word is God.
By extension, the Holy Spirit would be one person with two natures because
the Holy Spirit is God, i.e. the entire triune Godhead would be thee persons with
two natures each.
When the Word became human, it caused ramifications all the way to the top.
_
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Right, you have quotes that prove you wrong, as you often do. Your lord is not the LORD. Your quote does not reference God but your lord, one of many in the Bible.
how many lords are children of Mary?
one
Lord Jesus Christ
the angel was not sent by some Lord but by God, Mary was faithful to all the Lord revealed
mother of my Lord is mother of God
Christ is divine
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant. Every lord in the Bible has a mother. Doesn’t make these women the mother of God.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Below is a controversial passage.
• 1Cor 15:45 . .The first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam: a
life-giving spirit.
The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the passage above proves Jesus' resurrection
wasn't physical. Instead, they insist that his crucified body is still dead and
its remains are concealed on Earth somewhere in a condition and a location
known only to God, viz: they insist Jesus came back from death in a spirit
form instead of his human form.
There's an alternative explanation that's more to my liking.
The Word of John 1:1 is a spirit being, I'm pretty sure that's true because
the Word is God, and according to John 4:24, God is spirit.
Now John 1:1-4 testifies that there is life in the Word: not just life that
keeps himself alive, but life that makes all living things alive; i.e. the Word is
a life-giving spirit. In point of fact; the Word has always been a life-giving
spirit and it was a life-giving spirit when it came into the world in human
form. The "last Adam" then, speaks of the Word.
I point that out because the Jehovah's Witnesses insist it is impossible for
someone to exist as a physical being and a spirit being simultaneously. It is
their claim that the Word had to cease his spirit existence before he could
become a physical existence. But of course that's impossible because the
Word is God; and God is an eternal being immune to death, i.e. God cannot
cease His spirit existence because God cannot cease existing as God:
The Witnesses have attempted to circumvent God's immunity to death by
claiming that the Word isn't the true God but instead a lesser deity whom
they've labeled "a mighty one". Thus their Bible translates John 1:1 like this:
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a god."
Note the lower case spelling of a god in their translation. You see, the true
God cannot cease to exist in spirit form but in their thinking a lesser god
can; so by making the Word a lesser god, his spirit existence can be
terminated so that he can then be reconstructed as a physical being.
Curiously; quite a few non Jehovah's Witnesses agree the Word ceased to
exist as a spirit being when he came into the world as a physical being.
Though they correctly believe the Word is fully God and fully Man, they
simply cannot bring themselves to believe he exists as both a life-giving
creator and a life-given creature, i.e. as two distinctly dissimilar persons
simultaneously; resulting of course in the invention, and the proliferation,
of the hypostatic union theory.
_
Below is a controversial passage.
• 1Cor 15:45 . .The first man, Adam, became a living soul. The last Adam: a
life-giving spirit.
The Jehovah's Witnesses claim the passage above proves Jesus' resurrection
wasn't physical. Instead, they insist that his crucified body is still dead and
its remains are concealed on Earth somewhere in a condition and a location
known only to God, viz: they insist Jesus came back from death in a spirit
form instead of his human form.
There's an alternative explanation that's more to my liking.
The Word of John 1:1 is a spirit being, I'm pretty sure that's true because
the Word is God, and according to John 4:24, God is spirit.
Now John 1:1-4 testifies that there is life in the Word: not just life that
keeps himself alive, but life that makes all living things alive; i.e. the Word is
a life-giving spirit. In point of fact; the Word has always been a life-giving
spirit and it was a life-giving spirit when it came into the world in human
form. The "last Adam" then, speaks of the Word.
I point that out because the Jehovah's Witnesses insist it is impossible for
someone to exist as a physical being and a spirit being simultaneously. It is
their claim that the Word had to cease his spirit existence before he could
become a physical existence. But of course that's impossible because the
Word is God; and God is an eternal being immune to death, i.e. God cannot
cease His spirit existence because God cannot cease existing as God:
The Witnesses have attempted to circumvent God's immunity to death by
claiming that the Word isn't the true God but instead a lesser deity whom
they've labeled "a mighty one". Thus their Bible translates John 1:1 like this:
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was a god."
Note the lower case spelling of a god in their translation. You see, the true
God cannot cease to exist in spirit form but in their thinking a lesser god
can; so by making the Word a lesser god, his spirit existence can be
terminated so that he can then be reconstructed as a physical being.
Curiously; quite a few non Jehovah's Witnesses agree the Word ceased to
exist as a spirit being when he came into the world as a physical being.
Though they correctly believe the Word is fully God and fully Man, they
simply cannot bring themselves to believe he exists as both a life-giving
creator and a life-given creature, i.e. as two distinctly dissimilar persons
simultaneously; resulting of course in the invention, and the proliferation,
of the hypostatic union theory.
_
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
'And the King shall answer and say unto them,
Verily I say unto you,
Inasmuch as ye have done it
unto one of the least of these My brethren,
ye have done it unto Me.'
(Mat 25:40)
Hello @theefaith,
Yes, Mary is the Mother of our Lord Jesus Christ. She was indeed, 'highly favoured' by God. The Lord Jesus Christ was born of God through Mary, His deity is therefore without question.
All who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are called 'saints' in God's word, and are also spoken of as 'highly favoured' (or much graced) being 'accepted in the Beloved' (Ephesians 1:6) by God's grace. So why would anyone speak disparagingly of those whom God has so blessed?
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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how is it irrelevant?
We are debating verse 43 how is that the “mother” of my lord should come to me
mary came to her
mary only has one child
Jesus is the lord referred to here
Every time Lord is used in Lk 1 it always refers to the Lord God
Example: verse 16
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
Here a new thought for you
Differences in Lk 1
Lk 1:11 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense.
12 And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.
14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
16 And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God.
17 And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
18 And Zacharias said unto the angel, Whereby shall I know this? for I am an old man, and my wife well stricken in years.
19 And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.
Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.
29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Mary is the Queen of the Angels!
The angel is greeting his sovereign mistress and no introduction is needed with Mary, like verse 19 cos Mary knows Gabriel, Mary from the first moment of her creation by God is immaculate! (And sees the beatific vision of God always before her eyes, even in her mothers womb, op) so she knows Gabriel who stands on the presence of God!
Matt 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Those who are in Christ by faith and baptism
Mk 16:16 Acts 8:36-38
The trinity and the divinity of Christ are Christian doctrines necessary to be Christian and have the possibility of salvation
To deny them is to deny Christ and the faith of Christians
you must accept the “tradition of men” who under king James deleted whole books and many chapters from scripture negating the word of God
Lk 1:28 Hail Mary full of grace! Is scripture!
All are called to be saints yes
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Mind if I chime in?
The grammatical tense of the verb "has" in the verse below is present
tense, indicating the Jesus' believing followers all possess eternal life now, in
this life, before they pass on.
• John 5:24 . . I tell you the truth: whoever hears my word, and believes him
who sent me, has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed
over from death to life.
According to Jesus, people currently lacking eternal life are lacking it
because they don't listen to his word, nor believe his Father, ergo: they are
currently condemned, dead, and in grave danger of the sum of all fears.
I grew up a Catholic boy and received enough indoctrination in catechism to
complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation. I was told that eternal life
is something people get after they die rather than getting it in this life; the
meanwhile there's no telling whether they'll end up in Heaven or in Hell.
When I grew older, and ran across passages like John 5:24 in the Bible; I
felt betrayed by the Church. However, the Church's incompetence didn't
make me angry or indignant. In point of fact I was very relieved to discover
that what it had taught me was wrong.
_
Mind if I chime in?
The grammatical tense of the verb "has" in the verse below is present
tense, indicating the Jesus' believing followers all possess eternal life now, in
this life, before they pass on.
• John 5:24 . . I tell you the truth: whoever hears my word, and believes him
who sent me, has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed
over from death to life.
According to Jesus, people currently lacking eternal life are lacking it
because they don't listen to his word, nor believe his Father, ergo: they are
currently condemned, dead, and in grave danger of the sum of all fears.
I grew up a Catholic boy and received enough indoctrination in catechism to
complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation. I was told that eternal life
is something people get after they die rather than getting it in this life; the
meanwhile there's no telling whether they'll end up in Heaven or in Hell.
When I grew older, and ran across passages like John 5:24 in the Bible; I
felt betrayed by the Church. However, the Church's incompetence didn't
make me angry or indignant. In point of fact I was very relieved to discover
that what it had taught me was wrong.
_
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
I JUST answered how it is irrelevant!
You do this all the time. I say, you can't see because it is dark outside. Then you reply with, how come I cannot see.
Other lord's mothers may not have given birth to other lords. It really has nothing to do with what your claim is. That is why it is irrelevant.
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