Wrangler
Well-Known Member
And one thing we know for sure, that one church most certainly is not the Catholic Church as currently organized.
Luke 1:43
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And one thing we know for sure, that one church most certainly is not the Catholic Church as currently organized.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
You are an enthusiastic kool-aid drinker. I'll give you that!
Just out of curiosity, what is the alternative to accepting “tradition of men” who compiled the books of the Bible, calling it the Word of God?
Your foundation is quick sand. Moving from one logical fallacy after another, you cannot even admit the Popes of your denomination lack authority for they do not demonstrate the miraculous powers of the Apostles who walked with Christ. In other words, even demonstrable facts are impervious to your indoctrination.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The Eleven and Paul are the only apostles. All of those who follow Jesus are saints.
Its all good! The more the merrier!
the life we have now is grace received thru the sacraments
Matt 24:13 then we endure
and
Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
It is amazing that you post the church against the New Testament or visa versa cos the church wrote the New Testament
the church cannot be incompetent or in error Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Untrue. The Eastern Orthodox Church compiled the letters and Gospels of those who walked with Christ. Nearly 8 centuries later, your church was formed.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Making a doctrine out of this passage is foolishness. they probably approached Peter simply because he was from Capernaum and they knew him. YOu are grasping at straws!
again grasping at straws. Taking a simple statement about paying taxes and implying it shows Peter as the de facto pope. You are grasping at pieces of straw now!
So Peter becomes Eliajkim? Show me where the key to thte house of David has become the keys of the kingdom.
You are now grasping at atomic size pieces of straw!
Not saints but called to be saints
Saints in general are not the same as canonized saint
Mathias not an apostle?
the quote orthodox did not exist until they created a schism in 1050
the one true church Jn 10:16 was founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18 & 18:18
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
No such thing as a canonized saint. Luke 18:14.
Perhaps you didn't know but an apostle is personally sent by Jesus Christ to establish the foundation of his teaching. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11
The foundation of his teaching is preserved in the New Testament.
Isa 22:21-22 keys of the kingdom
Davidic kingdom
Lk 1:32-33 Jesus is this king
Matt 16:18 peter has these keys
btw why is only Peter involved here in both the intermediary and in the tax?
where are the others? Christ and peter are one
Christ and his church are one
Jn 21:17 only Peter
He is the leader the head of the church on earth the prince of the apostles
The servant of the servants of God
the vicar of Christ
if Christ has authority to send apostles then the apostles have the same authority Jn 20:21-23 same mission ministry power and authority as Christ
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
They are done now. The foundation has been laid. Jesus now sends prophets, evangelists, teachers and preachers to build on that foundation.
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your definition Faith. The actual definition is one who follows Jesus, obeying his teachings. Christians are assigned teaching others all the things he commanded. You are correct that in following Jesus' example, his followers would at some point in their faith get baptized. However, you are not correct that his actual followers would worship a triune god. True Christians worship and serve the God that Jesus bore testimony about. Jesus while under temptation clearly said this: (Matthew 4:10) . . .it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”
So by Jesus' words, his followers worship and serve Jehovah exclusively. True, we serve everyone, the actual meaning of the word minister, and it is part of our sacred service, but we do this because we love Jehovah 1 Jn 5:3
Knowing Jehovah and obeying the gospel, or in other words Christian laws given through God's word the Bible is a requirement for a person to be a true Christian sir.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
True Christians follow, obey and WORSHIP the LORD = Jesus the Christ
So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. 20The Father loves the Son and shows Him all He does. And to your amazement, He will show Him even greater works than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom He wishes. 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son,
23so that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
Two PERSONS are Present and Equal here = Father and SON = Elohim and LORD
Robert Gwin
Well-Known Member
Sure sir, don't mind at all. I remember when I first ran across that, along with the clearer companion Jn 11:26, I was thinking it was a false statement, any honest hearted person would don't you think, after all, every single one of Jesus' apostles died. So those verses are a good lesson that stated things are not always literal.
None of us know who will be judged worthy of life or death. The Bible tells us that responsibility has been delegated to Jesus, the one who has the keys. But one thing we can see is, there are requirements to everlasting life. We also see that those requirements vary among individuals because of their capabilities. The key to survival from the very beginning is obedience, of which I am sure you will agree. The very first step mentioned in the Bible for eternal life, is knowing God and Jesus, therefore we need to do our utmost to learn about them and what they require of us.
Although it is logical that many serve God for what they might get, including myself, doing so is showing love for God 1 Jn 5:3. I can truthfully testify that the finish of that verse is quite true, it is no burden to observe Jehovah's commandments, as a matter of fact, I will testify that it is the best way of life. I was not raised in the truth, therefore I have lived being my own god, as well as for Him. I personally testify, His was is infinitely better, even if one does not receive the gift of life.
Can you think of anything that is better than observing God's commandments?
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Many of the Catholics I've known personally, and those with whom I've
dialogued online, place far more faith in the Catechism of the Catholic
Church (a.k.a. CCC) than they do the Bible; which is not an uncommon
error. For example: when Christ was here, he condemned elements of
Judaism that the Jews lent more authority than the Bible (Matt 23:23 and
Mark 7:6-13). Well, that being his manner; I've no doubt Christ has a list of
things that he'd like very much culled from the CCC.
Anyway; whether the Bible is someone's sole authority or their secondary
authority makes no difference because in the long run it is still an authority--
a valid authority fully recognized as such by the Roman Catholic Church.
According to the Vatican Council (Sess. III, c. ii) the Scriptures are sacred
and canonical because "having been written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost,
they have God for their author"
There's also this by Paulus PP VI, from the Vatican, September 18, 1970
"In its pages we recognize His voice, we hear a message of deep significance
for every one of us. Through the spiritual dynamism and prophetic force of
the Bible, the Holy Spirit spreads His light and His warmth over all men, in
whatever historical or sociological situation they find themselves."
So then; according to that Vatican Council and to Paulus PP VI; when people
listen to the Bible; they're hearing the voice of God, and also listening to
that which the Holy Spirit utilizes to spread His light and His warmth over all
men.
One of Christ's parables spoke of a farmer sowing seed. The Lord interpreted
the seed to be the word of God (Luke 8:11) which in his day didn't include
the CCC. In other words: the seed in the parable refers to the Holy Bible.
When John Que and Jane Doe pew warmer allow themselves to become
indifferent to the Bible, they become the soil on the path; a location in which
the word of God does not take root; consequently their indifference becomes
a killing field for evil.
"Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the Devil comes and
takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be
saved." (Luke 8:12)
_
Many of the Catholics I've known personally, and those with whom I've
dialogued online, place far more faith in the Catechism of the Catholic
Church (a.k.a. CCC) than they do the Bible; which is not an uncommon
error. For example: when Christ was here, he condemned elements of
Judaism that the Jews lent more authority than the Bible (Matt 23:23 and
Mark 7:6-13). Well, that being his manner; I've no doubt Christ has a list of
things that he'd like very much culled from the CCC.
Anyway; whether the Bible is someone's sole authority or their secondary
authority makes no difference because in the long run it is still an authority--
a valid authority fully recognized as such by the Roman Catholic Church.
According to the Vatican Council (Sess. III, c. ii) the Scriptures are sacred
and canonical because "having been written by inspiration of the Holy Ghost,
they have God for their author"
There's also this by Paulus PP VI, from the Vatican, September 18, 1970
"In its pages we recognize His voice, we hear a message of deep significance
for every one of us. Through the spiritual dynamism and prophetic force of
the Bible, the Holy Spirit spreads His light and His warmth over all men, in
whatever historical or sociological situation they find themselves."
So then; according to that Vatican Council and to Paulus PP VI; when people
listen to the Bible; they're hearing the voice of God, and also listening to
that which the Holy Spirit utilizes to spread His light and His warmth over all
men.
One of Christ's parables spoke of a farmer sowing seed. The Lord interpreted
the seed to be the word of God (Luke 8:11) which in his day didn't include
the CCC. In other words: the seed in the parable refers to the Holy Bible.
When John Que and Jane Doe pew warmer allow themselves to become
indifferent to the Bible, they become the soil on the path; a location in which
the word of God does not take root; consequently their indifference becomes
a killing field for evil.
"Those on the path are the ones who have heard, but the Devil comes and
takes away the word from their hearts that they may not believe and be
saved." (Luke 8:12)
_
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