Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment

[marks]

But still . . . no tension . . . and clear truths . . .

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think this idea of "tension" in Scripture is another way of saying, "I haven't figured out how to reconcile this conflict I'm having in my understanding ot these passages."

I think that when we reach true understanding, there is no conflict, no 'tension'.

Much love!

I disagree. The tension is still there holding it together.

For example:

A tv preacher may run around trying to convince men that whatever they ask for in faith will be done for them. He blames people for being poor or for not being healed of every single ailment or for not having a Rolls Royce. Well, you just didn't ask believing you would get it, he says.

But he has half a truth because also, in tension to the verse he's insisting on, is this: you ask and don't receive because you ask with the wrong motive.

The tension will always be there. And thank God for it.

 

[marks]

I disagree. The tension is still there holding it together.

For example:

A tv preacher may run around trying to convince men that whatever they ask for in faith will be done for them. He blames people for being poor or for not being healed of every single ailment or for not having a Rolls Royce. Well, you just didn't ask believing you would get it, he says.

But he has half a truth because also, in tension to the verse he's insisting on, is this: you ask and don't receive because you ask with the wrong motive.

The tension will always be there. And thank God for it.

Maybe you mean something different when you say "tension" in Scripture.

That is how I hear people talk about the contradictions they see in Scripture that they don't know how to resolve.

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

I don't want to be a bother, but I really expected that someone would have an answer for my post, but it got ignored. So I'm thinking I didn't make myself clear enough and no one understood my thought.

The parable of the rich man and Lazarus - does anyone see that it shouldn't be used to prop up the argument for eternal torture IF an insistence is made that its a true life story of 2 actual men rather than a parable?

Because if its true life, the time to repent on earth is not over, (because the man asks that someone be sent to talk to his 5 brothers on earth so they might repent) so what is being described cannot be the lake of fire. Hence, the true life story has to take place before anyone is thrown in the lake of fire.

Once again, I'm not attempting to prove annihilation over eternal torture. I'm just saying if the parable is a true life story, you can't use it in defense of eternal torture, unless someone has something I haven't seen.

It is a to illustrate that if they don't believe Moses and the prophets they won't believe even if one rose from the dead.
It is not representative of true life.

It is even more pertinent than we give it credit today in a Christian world that largely dismisses the relevance of the Old Testament scriptures. Because of this the connections and objectives are fudged in peoples understanding.
We have made Jesus a means to a quick fix similar to our Ommmmming brethren in some other cultures or a gambler hoping to bet on the right horse.
Yes, many will not believe even in the face of the miraculous resurrection

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Making Him a means to a quick fix...that is a verse. Something about Gods anger at the leaders putting a bandaid over a mortal wound.

 

[Enoch111]

Once again, I'm not attempting to prove annihilation over eternal torture. I'm just saying if the parable is a true life story, you can't use it in defense of eternal torture, unless someone has something I haven't seen.

1. First of all this is NOT a parable. Parables illustrate spiritual truths, whereas this narrative reveals the truth of the afterlife, Christ Himself being the Revealer. So this is a true life story about two men and what happened to them after they died. It would be applicable to all men, except that those who are saints now go directly to Heaven, not to Hades (which was for the OT saints until the resurrection of Christ).

2. Other Scriptures make it perfectly clear that there are no second chances after death. So those who are in Hades will remain in Hades until the Great White Throne Judgment.

3. No one has to "defend" eternal torment (not torture, which is a practice of evil men). The Bible is crystal clear about the eternal torments of Hell (the Lake of Fire). You can either believe it or disbelieve it.