Luther 100% correct in his actions?

[Red_Letters88]

Ive been talking with catholics more and more, realizing a lot of what most protestants believe of them is off and inacurate.Dont get me wrong, there is still plenty I dont agree with them about- such as non-biblical supported beliefs.Some of what catholics believe are based on the Bible with the apocrypha.If many of these books were included at the cannonization- why did Luther feel he needed to take an extra step more and remove them?What makes Luthers decisions over all those who gathered when the bible was being cannonized?I am going to buy a copy of the catholic bible just to find the answers for my questions.Im just interested why protestants put so much trust in Luther....???

 

[DrBubbaLove]

There were abuses in the Church that needed to be addressed, and actually were being addressed, inside the Church. As a Priest, Luther was a Catholic Reformer before he was a Protestant one. It just was not happening fast enough for him.

 

[Red_Letters88]

Ok DrBubba,But still, he is just ONE man, why accept his changes over what had been changed already?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Good question

 

[Red_Letters88]

I feel this is a topic which protestants push to the side and dont wish to be bothered with.I could be wrong- I just want to know why we all put so much trust in this man.Unlike some I know- I believe the inspiration process didnt end after the cannonization.I believe what God inspired He will keep His hand on it- till the end.Why are the books Luther removed not meant to be included?

 

[horsecamp]

(Red_Letters88;37338)
Ive been talking with catholics more and more, realizing a lot of what most protestants believe of them is off and inacurate.Dont get me wrong, there is still plenty I dont agree with them about- such as non-biblical supported beliefs.Some of what catholics believe are based on the Bible with the apocrypha.If many of these books were included at the cannonization- why did Luther feel he needed to take an extra step more and remove them?What makes Luthers decisions over all those who gathered when the bible was being cannonized?I am going to buy a copy of the catholic bible just to find the answers for my questions.Im just interested why protestants put so much trust in Luther....???
BECAUSELuther based what he did on the witness of Jesus the profits and apostles .and not on the tradition of men.Luther could care less about the cannonization OF THE BIBLE by men.He cared about the canonization of what books belonged in the bible by Gods Canonization that is found in Scripture itself .even us Lutherans don't trust Luther unless we search to see if it is so in scripture.and when we find it we than say our pastor Luther was correct.you would be a lot wiser spending $9 to find out the many passages where God was the one who cannonized scripture and many other wonderous things about the bible found in this bookhttp://online.nph.net/cgi-bin/site.pl?10418&productID=150618and then you can read the apocrapha with that knowledge to see if it is also has been canonized by God.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

(Red_Letters88;37338)
Ive been talking with catholics more and more, realizing a lot of what most protestants believe of them is off and inacurate.Dont get me wrong, there is still plenty I dont agree with them about- such as non-biblical supported beliefs.Some of what catholics believe are based on the Bible with the apocrypha.If many of these books were included at the cannonization- why did Luther feel he needed to take an extra step more and remove them?What makes Luthers decisions over all those who gathered when the bible was being cannonized?I am going to buy a copy of the catholic bible just to find the answers for my questions.Im just interested why protestants put so much trust in Luther....???
Red letter PM me your address I have one I will send you free of charge I will pay the shipping too. Almost brand new. Bought it when I was attending a Catholic Church....

 

[DrBubbaLove]

why not just print the Bible with easily detachable sheets so that one can remove whatever one deems to be not "canonized" by God.

 

[Jerusalem Junkie]

(DrBubbaLove;37475)
why not just print the Bible with easily detachable sheets so that one can remove whatever one deems to be not "canonized" by God.
Everyone is guilty of that. Add more to it than whats there. Take it for what it is "Sola Scriptura" scripture for scripture.

 

[horsecamp]

because the way God cannonized the bible those who pick and choose are left with out a leg to stand on the verses are that explicit .

 

[tim_from_pa]

(Red_Letters88;37338)
Ive been talking with catholics more and more, realizing a lot of what most protestants believe of them is off and inacurate.Dont get me wrong, there is still plenty I dont agree with them about- such as non-biblical supported beliefs.Some of what catholics believe are based on the Bible with the apocrypha.If many of these books were included at the cannonization- why did Luther feel he needed to take an extra step more and remove them?What makes Luthers decisions over all those who gathered when the bible was being cannonized?I am going to buy a copy of the catholic bible just to find the answers for my questions.Im just interested why protestants put so much trust in Luther....???
Don't buy a copy of the bible with the apocrypha. My bible download (in my signature) has the apocrypha in it. It's free, if you don't mind reading it from a computer.

 

[lastsecman]

Protestants don't put their trust in Luther. Because God alone is the mastermind, not Luther....

 

[HammerStone]

Protestants don't put their trust in Luther. Because God alone is the mastermind, not Luther....

Here, here!Much wisdom in these words, you can't go wrong with that!

 

[Jordan]

(Denver;38641)
(lastsecman;38639)
Protestants don't put their trust in Luther. Because God alone is the mastermind, not Luther....

Here, here!Much wisdom in these words, you can't go wrong with that!Amen!JagLovest thou in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

While we can all agree God alone is the Mastermind, am not sure how that answers the question about Luther. Think what one is really saying is that one trusts that God was leading Luther in his seeking to have books removed from the canon, books that had been in use for nearly a thousand and a half years. Unexplained would be why God allows nearly a millennium and a half of Christians to be misled in this matter, especially in light of many much earlier challenges to the canon. That Luther claimed inspiration from God on this matter we will not deny, but to believe him on that matter is putting one's trust in a man. Your Bible is shorter because of a man, who claimed inspiration from God on the matter. Further had the same man gotten his way more often, your NT would also be several books shorter, including one of the favorites of many here, Revelation. So it is not like Luther's claim to inspiration on these matters is infallible.

 

[His By Grace]

Yes, and that is why we don't follow Luther. Case in point. Even though Luther didn't want some of the NT books to stay in the canon, they are. This should be further proof that we have the Bible God intends for us to have. I read somewhere that Luther didn't think the book of James was of much value. That totally shocked me and did lower my opinion of someone I had once esteemed. The book of James is absolutely essential in many ways. It is the book that talks about even the demons believing in God, but that's not enough for salvation. So, not all protestants blindly follow Luther. I do respect many of the things he accomplished, though, because he took on a big battle.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

So whose idea was it to shorten the OT canon after almost 1500 years?

 

[His By Grace]

I would have to credit that to the Holy Spirit. I don't think He left us with anything incomplete. It has withstood all this time and is sufficient for what we need. I am not at all worried about anything Luther did or didn't do. My God is bigger than that.

 

[Christina]

I agree His By Grace I think if we believe God created the universe and all that is within it surely he could handle getting men to complete his Holy Word the Way he intended it to be perhaps its a matter of Faith Surley the gift of Wisdom was granted to those menwhom he entrusted to this Work"The New is in the Old concealed, and the Old is in the New Revealed.""The New Testament is veiled in the Old Testament, and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New Testament."

 

[Christina]

The Canon The canon, or officially accepted list of books in the Hebrew Bible, consists of 24 books according to Jewish reckoning and is divided into three parts: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. The Law (Torah), often called the Pentateuch, comprises five books, GENESIS through DEUTERONOMY. The Prophets (Nevi im) are divided into three parts: the earlier prophets (Joshua, JUDGES, 1 and 2 SAMUEL, and 1 and 2 KINGS); the later prophets (ISAIAH, Jeremiah, and EZEKIEL); and twelve books called the Minor Prophets because of their brevity. The 11 Writings (Ketuvim) include three poetic books (PSALMS, PROVERBS, and Job); the five scrolls (SONG OF SOLOMON, RUTH, LAMENTATIONS, Ecclesiastes, and ESTHER); an apocalyptic work, DANIEL; and EZRA/NEHEMIAH and 1 and 2 CHRONICLES. Christian Bibles arrange the books differently. The Law, or Pentateuch, comes first, then all the historical books. These are followed by the poetical, or wisdom, books and finally the prophetic books. Thus Ruth, Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther appear in the second group and Daniel and Lamentations in the fourth. The Canon The process by which the canon of the New Testament was formed began in the 2d century, probably with a collection of ten letters of Paul. Toward the end of that century, IRENAEUS argued for the unique authority of the portion of the Canon called the Gospels. Acceptance of the other books came gradually. The church in Egypt used more than the present 27 books, and the (Syriac?)speaking churches fewer. The question of an official canon became urgent during the 4th century. It was mainly through the influence of ATHANASIUS, bishop of Alexandria, and because JEROME included the 27 books in his Latin version of the Bible called the Vulgate, that the present canon came to be accepted. Definitions and Test for Canonicity Canon originally meant "a straight rod" or a "measuring stick." 1. Authorship - A book had to be written by an apostle or a close associate of an apostle. For example, Mark was not an apostle, but was a close associate of the Apostle Peter. 2. Nature of the Book - Does the message of the book agree with the content of divine revelation in the Old Testament? Does the book reflect the character of the person and work of Jesus Christ and agree with the existing apostolic writing? 3. Universality - Is the book being read and practiced in the churches throughout the Body of Christ? This criterion addresses the degree to which the people of God recognize and accept the authority of the book under consideration. 4. Inspiration - The word inspiration literally means "God-breathed." Does the book have a spiritual character that agree with the Holy Spirit who indwells all believers? THREE MAJOR REASONS FOR THE OFFICIAL RECOGNITION OF THE CANON 1. The spread of false doctrine - The very existence of the church was seriously threatened by gnosticism. 2. The development of false writings - A major motivation for the canon was pseudepigrapha, false writings. These came out of a desire to know more about the childhood of Jesus and to have more information about New Testament personalities. 3. Persecution - In A.D. 303, the Edict of Diocletian declared that all Christian books must be destroyed. This forced the Church to determine which books were of real value and which books could be cast into the fire. PROCESS OF CANONIZATION The central question her is, "By what means did the church come to recognize and endorse the authoritative books of the New Testament?" A primary means was through general church councils. The major councils were: 1. The Council of Laodicea (A.D. 363) - this particular council accepted all of the books of the New Testament except the Book of Revelation. 2. The Council of Carthage (A.D. 397) - this council of chaired by the preeminent early church father and theologian, Augustine. The Council of Carthage accepted all 27 New Testament books. 3. The Council of Hippo (419 A.D.) - this council reaffirmed the Council of Carthage.. During the process of canonization, there was no unanimous consent on what books should be included in the canon. The deliberations fell into two categories: 1. Homolegoumena - Those works which were unanimously accepted by the councils were called Homolegoumena. The prefix homo means the same. The root word logo means to say. So the word Homolegoumena means to say the same things or to agree. 2. Antilegoumena - The disputed works were called Antilegoumena. The prefix anti means against and so the Antilegoumena were the works which were spoken against by the councils. The disputed works were: A. Philemon - The early Church Fathers argued that Philemon was simply a letter addressed to an individual concerning a very secular, non-religious subject. It had nothing to do with the person and work of Christ, the nature of the Gospel and the edification of the church. B. Hebrews - In that Hebrews is anonymous, it could not be proved that it was written by an apostle or a close associate of an apostle. C. The Epistles of John - Also anonymous, very brief, of unknown destination, and had limited circulation in the church. D. II Peter - Its author appears to have borrowed much material from the Epistle of Jude. E. Jude - This work frequently quoted from apocryphal works, particularly the Books of Enoch and the Assumption of Moses. F. Revelation - It was the most disputed work of all the New Testament, because by A.D. 400 few understood its message, The apocalyptic imagery of Revelation proved to be confusing to the saints but also served as fertile ground for the Christian gnostic heretics. http://www.foundationsforfreedom.net/Topic...nonization.html