Man's body not shaped in the image of God

[ScottA]

C'mon. This is getting too tiresome. I understand what is written. It's your it's your vague ideas about it, that I'm tired of trying to understand.
He understood the words, that his carnal mind could not wrap around spiritually.

I don't understand your ideas about the Bible expressed in mysterious lingo.

We are counseled to endure until the end, and to hear what the Spirit says. You're not doing so good, expecting things to go the way of your own understanding. That's not how this works.

To the contrary, we are to expect what we "do not expect"; and that the mystery of God which is called a mystery would unfold during these times, but only to those who are inclined to hear.

Nope. You still say I am only conjecturing in the topic at hand. Until you show plainly how, then your charge is useless.

Show how I am only offering opinion, without any Bible basis, or I'll call it quits.

All you're doing now is trying to convince me your mysterious allusions to the Bible, is somehow legit teaching, and so I should keep hearing you out, until I 'get it'. I used to indulge you. Now, I'm telling you it's over with for me.

( I see you also don't disagree that you teach all men in their own time, will eventually repent unto salvation and resurrection from the dead. I would call it the gospel of men repenting in their own good time, and God will allow it timelessly, even if it takes forever.)

I have said a lot already, and so far you have only been stubborn and lacking any idea or expectation of just what should have even been expected, as if I have blind-sided you. Instead, you insist on things your way.

But I am not trying to do anything as you describe it, and it adds nothing to me or takes nothing away from me, except that it saddens me that you reject what is written and warned of. Anyway, I will go back and look again. But if there are corrections to be made, and there will be, you should expect it.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Who is saying God has no immortal body?

What is it that you think Moses saw? God's shape?

No. You tell me.

I asked and no one ever gives a definitive answer.God's face could not be seen cause God said so.


Moses reported... or the actual author.... that God also said " and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.

And cover you with my hand. What does a spirit need a hand for ? Why was it needed to cover Moses' face?

“Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”

So we have a spirit who cannot have his face seen. Cool. But what does a spirit need a face for?

And then God said "“Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen.”

Why? If there was not a resemblance to some hind of man... why the description when
as a spirit God could simply have vanished.

So since the consensus on here is that God did not have a hand. God did not have a back that Moses was able to see according to God.....

What is it that Moses saw?

"while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock" AND "and cover you with My hand until I have passed by."

God knew Moses would peek..... so if God did not have what God said He did...
WHAT???????????????????????????????????????????

He should have just disappeared......

 

[Ghada]

The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains.

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

We see here how it is the making of the image that is forbidden. It does not require worshipping nor bowing down to, but only making an image, that is believed to be God's image, whether of a man, beast or creeping thing.

If a man and God's bodily image are the same likeness, then God would have been the first idolator of His own image, when shaping man according to His own shape. And any man believing man's physical image is of God, then sculpting, painting, or picturing any person's body would be idolatry.

They would stand back when finished, and say, "That is a good image of God."

We see how idolatry includes the belief of the sculptor. Making an image of man without any thought of God's own likeness, is not idolatry. It's only of the maker believes it is the image and likeness of the immortal God Himself.

We are justified or condemned by our own faith. Many pagans have been condemned as idolators for sculpting the gods' own image in that of man. It was a matter of faith in the likeness of the immortal gods.

It's no different with Christians who believe they see the immortal image of the true God in the body of a man and woman.

 

[Ghada]

View attachment 37492

No. You tell me.

In such cases, no answer is enough an answer.

And they answered Jesus, and said, We cannot tell.

You already know my honest answer.

I asked and no one ever gives a definitive answer.God's face could not be seen cause God said so.

You've never asked why not, but only try to use it as a proof of having the face like man's, just because He does have a face.

So far as why not is easy, because God said Moses (and any other man on earth) would die.

God does not give the reason why Moses would die. And so any reason supplied is only conjecture at this point. (Maybe the shape of the face was so alien to Moses, it might cause him to leap from the cliff in terror...Hence the hand not just blocking his view, but also kept firm in the cleft of the rock.)

What does a spirit need a hand for ?

Now you are denying the immortal Spirit's own body. How then can you say man's body is made in His image?

You are making the case, that it's not the body of man created in the immortal God's image, but only man's soul, heart. and spirit.

Why was it needed to cover Moses' face?

So Moses would not die? Even as He said.

So we have a spirit who cannot have his face seen. Cool. But what does a spirit need a face for?

Once again. You appear to be talking from unbelief, questioning why the Spirit of God should have a face and hand. He does. In this case, He has a hand to cover Moses from seeing His face. (In the cleft of a rock, just in case Moses does manage to peek and dives for cover over the cliff...)

Why? If there was not a resemblance to some hind of man...

Circular argument. You draw a conclusion based upon your theory, not the facts at hand.

Your whole argument proves nothing pertaining to man's image being that of God. God's Spirit body having a face, hands, back, finger, etc...could as easily apply to apes. (And really ugly alien features, causing any man to scream in terror and die of a heart attack...)

The four creatures in Ezekiel 1 are plainly said to have the likeness of man with face, hands, front and back sides, etc...And so, by your argument, God's image is also that of those creatures, that have wings as well.

They are in the likeness of man to a degree. Are you going to say God's can't have wings too? The Bible even speaks of His wings.

Ezek 1 of course says nothing of god's own image and shape seated high up on His throne. Neither did Isaiah see any shape of the Lord high and lifted up.

The only thing the Bible ever says about the shape of the immortal God and Spirit, is that no man has seen it at any time.

You don't believe that. You believe you see the shape of God's face and body every time you look in the mirror.

why the description when

Trying to sneak in your ideology. No description of the face, hands, nor backside are given.

as a spirit God could simply have vanished.

Nonsensical.

So since the consensus on here is that God did not have a hand. God did not have a back that Moses was able to see according to God.....

I haven't read anyone saying this other than you. It's a typical ploy of the dishonest.

You project false beliefs on others disagreeing with you about the Bible, in order to make them appear not to agree with the Bible facts.

God knew Moses would peek..... so if God did not have what God said He did...

Once again you're projecting beliefs on others never said by them.

I had some hope for your integrity. But now you've simply descended into the usual tactic of lying about the teaching of others, as well as the Bible.

Hey, look. I got absolutely no problem with you thinking you are seeing the spittin' image of God Himself, when looking in the mirror. More power to you.

However, your image and likeness of a debater here shows absolutely nothing of the image of Christ.

For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience, that in simplicity and godly sincerity, not with fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, and more abundantly to you-ward.

You've employed one of the oldest tricks of man's sophistry, by purposely misstating the other position, in order to make it appear factually false. But, like all of man's dishonest wisdom and games, it still doesn't confirm your own argument.

God's image cannot possibly be that of man's bodily likeness, otherwise Jesus is a liar, and men and women have been seeing the Father's shape since in the garden.

P.s. Your ideology for Adam's body being the image of God, is the same as Narcissus, who gazed at his own reflection in the clear water, as being the very image of the gods.

You see, the real moral of the story here, is that neither the pagans nor you disagree, that he was indeed looking at the image of the gods and God in the water.

 

[ScottA]

Man's physical form is not made in God's image. That is the idolatry of carnal minded readers of the Bible.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

It's the soul and heart of man created in the image of God, who is Spirit. That is where man, like God and angel has power to choose to do good or evil.

No other natural living creature on earth has that power and image from God.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

If man's physical shape is created int he image of God, then man has seen God's shape since the beginning.

Man's physical shape was created differently from that of all other natural living creatures, walking upright, and not as the forefooted or jumping creatures with two legs.

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Man was created spiritually in God's image, with a natural body different in shape from other natural creatures. God came in the flesh of man with a natural body in the shape of man, and not that of any other natural creature.

When Christ makes man's physical shape, it is not in God's likeness. But rather was to become the Son's likeness on earth. That is part of why He is called the second Adam coming in the flesh, in the same shape and likeness of Adam.

Neither is man's flesh sinful nor his shape, no more than any other flesh and shape of living creatures made by Christ with His own Spirit and hands.

Specifically then...

As before, I say again that your position above is conjecture on your part, perhaps by misunderstanding, but if nothing else, by semantics which is the confusion of language by God since Babel.

It is obvious that what you have written is from your own understanding, but I will tell you what is true from God.

Your idea that the image of God is not man's physical form, but rather is "the soul and heart of man created in the image of God" categorically denies that God has even created an "image" of Himself, referring to the fact that He "is Spirit." Such an explanation is simply the errored reasoning not unlike Satan's use of scripture to say “Has God indeed said, ‘You shall not eat of every tree of the garden’?” In other words, it is the casting of doubt upon what God has said against Him...in this case, as if He cannot make manifest what is otherwise unseen and spiritual. This is a simple misunderstanding of just what the world is, which is the revealing of all things before the judgement. "For there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known." Luke 12:2

As for your statement "Neither is man's flesh sinful"...is simply the flesh speaking, which one ought not to yield to. But the truth from God is written in so many places it is a job just to pick one. Here is a good one:

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, [c]murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21​

 

[MatthewG]

When it comes to the topic of mans body not shaped in the image of God, I would agree. What is the image of God? It's the soul that inside of you, that learns (it's your mind/will/emotions.) Everyone in this world starts off basically with everything worldy given to them, hat, shirt, pants, underwear, socks, shoes, a bottle of milk, car, money, (All the depnding.) Our very nature of our body, is our flesh, which the soul controls, from the desires which are from oneself. I believe that all people start off with a soul, and it can have dark desires from time to time, and I believe that the soul (mind/will/emotions) can become renewed from what they primary learned, which for today, would be to look towards heavenly things rather than what the flesh can give you (pride, greed, lust, desires of covetousness, wantoness, arguing for arguement sake, sexual immorality, murderous thoughts, theivery), the heavenly consist, of love, joy, peace, kindness, forbearance, bearing on another, forgiving one another, having mercy, desires to have peace with all peoples.

I suppose that is where Yeshua, points out to pick up ones cross and to follow after him, because when they do so, they learn from him, and they can grow and mature spiritually in him, if they so desire, and become more affectatious towards heavenly things, than so much of the worldly ways, which were mentioned in the previous paragraph. It's something to consider when it comes to, who am I? A soul created by God, and he loves you, and loves me and desires to help us in this life? Perhaps my desire will go towards that, and allow my mind, will, emotions to be renewed in the Lord Yeshua, and also the other letters founded in the bible, you can always rely on Yeshua once you know him, you can explore the other letters too, and partake of some of the meat of the word, rather than milk which is always an option available to all of us.

Romans 12:1-3

New International Version

​

A Living Sacrifice​

12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Humble Service in the Body of Christ​

3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

 

[MatthewG]

There is also the side of me, that also sees that God did created man and woman in his image. Which is pretty radical when one thinks about it.

When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created.

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

Do me a favor. Pretty please with a cherry on top.

Please pull out your favorite bible translation.

Then please post what Exodus 33, verses 20, 22 and 23 have to say.

Then we shall discuss my reply and yours.

Thanks....

But while you are being so seemingly flippant with your "is this a threat or a consequence?" comment....

Also go look at

2 Samuel 6:3-8 and in 1 Chronicles 13:6-12 tell the account of a man who tried to protect the ark of God and died as a consequence.


In 2 Samuel 6 we find some more details since it records the same event. Here is a portion of the passage.



WHY? You may ask.... Well,

The ark of God was one of the holy objects . God had made it clear to the Israelites during the time of Moses that they were not to touch the holy objects associated with the tabernacle worship (Numbers 4:4-6, 15-20).

Now... this had bothered me most of my life... and in a way still does.

The man wanted to steady it lest it fall to the ground, possibly shattering or breaking.

Evidently God did not care?

We, as mortals cannot touch or hold things that God has forbidden. Obviously.

Nor can we look upon His face.

As to your other comment... that actually requires an very in depth answer and not for here and not for now.

 

[Ghada]

More proof that the shape of man's body has nothing to do with being made in God's image.

Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Why was Adam a son of God? Because of being made in God's image.

In the NT, being born again of God, is to be newly created sons of God, conformed to the image of Christ.

And so, we see in the doctrine of God, that being created in His image and being a born son of His, is the same thing.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And so, we see here that being born of God has nothing to do with being made and born of flesh and blood.

Therefore, being created in the image of God as a born son, has nothing to do with man's body nor shape of flesh and blood.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

God has so many verses with myriad ways to easily prove all His doctrine, but if someone's not going to believe one indisputable verse, then neither will he believe a hundred verses.

This is why God commands honest faith when reading His word, and does not comply with the unbeliever's insistence, that God must say things in a certain way to suit them. Even if God did write in His Book, "Man's fleshy body and shape have nothing to do with being created in My image!" The unbeliever will still not believe it.

The reason for this is usually simple pride. However, some times it has everything to do wholly trusting in one's own doctrine of being saved and going to heaven. In such cases, as it was with Cain, hearing anything threatening to 'harm' their doctrine is taken as a personal assault on their very conscience and soul. They wouldn't believe it if someone rose from the dead and told it to their faces.

And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

There comes a point, when it's not about understanding and error, but all about searing the conscience to anything not conforming to one's own beliefs, that they suppose doctrinally ensures their way to heaven.

 

[Maxim]

That is part of why He is called the second Adam coming in the flesh, in the same shape and likeness of Adam.

Adam literally means man, and Paul being a Jew perfectly knew it. You can try replacing it in that passage, it'll be a little bit more clear what's written.

²¹ For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. ²² For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
…
⁴⁴ it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. ⁴⁵ So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. ⁴⁶ The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. ⁴⁷ The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. ⁴⁸ As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. ⁴⁹ And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
(1 Corinthians 15:21‭-‬22‭, ‬44‭-‬49 NIV)

 

[Ghada]

Adam literally means man, and Paul being a Jew perfectly knew it. You can try replacing it in that passage, it'll be a little bit more clear what's written.

²¹ For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. ²² For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
…
⁴⁴ it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. ⁴⁵ So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. ⁴⁶ The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. ⁴⁷ The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. ⁴⁸ As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. ⁴⁹ And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.
(1 Corinthians 15:21‭-‬22‭, ‬44‭-‬49 NIV)

Good point to show Jesus was a man like any man, coming in the flesh of man, and not only as a man in physical appearance, rather than a literal lamb.

 

[Maxim]

Good point to show Jesus was a man like any man, coming in the flesh of man, and not only as a man in physical appearance, rather than a literal lamb.

Thank you. I didn't read this long discussion, but are there any different opinions? He was born like a human and grew up as everyone else, He suffered in temptation due to His weak flesh to the point that He had sweat with blood when his whole being rejected his choice, so of course He's human in the flesh, not only in appearance. The only point, He had memory of Himself since childhood (Luke 2:46-50), besides that He's like us in everything. But His spirit is still of God. His temptations and struggles show us that He was weak in the flesh like any human, but it's His will and love for us what's moving Him forward.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
(John 10:11‭-‬13)

Only because of it He was able to reach the end and die for us, because He's not just some hireling and cares for the sheep. Without it He should have fled from suffering and death, being fully human in the flesh.

 

[XFire]

Man's physical form is not made in God's image. That is the idolatry of carnal minded readers of the Bible.

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

It's the soul and heart of man created in the image of God, who is Spirit. That is where man, like God and angel has power to choose to do good or evil.

No other natural living creature on earth has that power and image from God.

And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

If man's physical shape is created int he image of God, then man has seen God's shape since the beginning.

Man's physical shape was created differently from that of all other natural living creatures, walking upright, and not as the forefooted or jumping creatures with two legs.

But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Man was created spiritually in God's image, with a natural body different in shape from other natural creatures. God came in the flesh of man with a natural body in the shape of man, and not that of any other natural creature.

When Christ makes man's physical shape, it is not in God's likeness. But rather was to become the Son's likeness on earth. That is part of why He is called the second Adam coming in the flesh, in the same shape and likeness of Adam.

Neither is man's flesh sinful nor his shape, no more than any other flesh and shape of living creatures made by Christ with His own Spirit and hands.

I disagree. We are the literally children of the living God. We are divine beings capable of being joint heirs with Jesus and sharing his throne.

Now with that said. The apostles did not recognize Jesus on multiple meetings with Jesus after the ressurection. So there is a change but we do not have enough info on how Jesus looked different. Only that he was different

 

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

I disagree. We are the literally children of the living God. We are divine beings capable of being joint heirs with Jesus and sharing his throne.

Now with that said. The apostles did not recognize Jesus on multiple meetings with Jesus after the ressurection. So there is a change but we do not have enough info on how Jesus looked different. Only that he was different

It had to be quite a bit different because we are talking 72 hours from his death to empty tomb which is not long enough for and I mention this 72 hours because the first mention
was John 20: 14 When she had said this, she turned around and *saw Jesus standing there, and did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing Him to be the gardener, she *said to Him, “Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you have laid Him, and I will take Him away.” 16 Jesus *said to her, “Mary!” She turned and *said to Him in [a]Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher). 17 Jesus *said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’

Mary did not recognize Jesus, except by his voice.

 

[Ghada]

I disagree.

Ok.

We are the literally children of the living God. We are divine beings capable of being joint heirs with Jesus and sharing his throne.

New Age Christianity.

If we're not walking as He walked, there's nothing divine about us. Sinners and trespasser are only immortal souls headed to judgment of our sinful deeds, and resurrected unto shame and contempt forever.

Now with that said. The apostles did not recognize Jesus on multiple meetings with Jesus after the ressurection. So there is a change but we do not have enough info on how Jesus looked different. Only that he was different

Mary did not recognize Him resurrected, because she wasn't looking for Him alive, but only for His dead body to wrap and anoint.

She opened her eyes to the truth of His resurrected body, only after He got her attention.

The disciples that later saw Him recognized Him right away. They just couldn't believe He was resurrected alive like He said He would be.

Unbelief can blind the eyes to what is physically standing right before us.

But, this has nothing to do with man's body not made in the image of God, But if you disagree, that's fine by me. I don't look in the mirror and see God's shape and tell God 'Good morning'.

I'm not an idolater. My body is not the image of God, nor do I make an idol of it. (My wife tells me I'm still hot stuff though. )