Many Will Follow: The Rise of False Teaching in the Church

[bdavidc]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

We live in a time where truth is being replaced with experiences, emotions, and hype. Churches are growing. Crowds are gathering. Movements are spreading. But the real question is this… is it actually biblical?

The Word of God doesn’t tell us to follow trends. It tells us to test everything. This video exposes what many have seen but few are willing to say out loud. Watch it all the way through.

 

[Marymog]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

We live in a time where truth is being replaced with experiences, emotions, and hype. Churches are growing. Crowds are gathering. Movements are spreading. But the real question is this… is it actually biblical?

The Word of God doesn’t tell us to follow trends. It tells us to test everything. This video exposes what many have seen but few are willing to say out loud. Watch it all the way through.

Who decides what is "actually biblical"?

Curious Mary

 

[SavedInHim]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

We live in a time where truth is being replaced with experiences, emotions, and hype. Churches are growing. Crowds are gathering. Movements are spreading. But the real question is this… is it actually biblical?

The Word of God doesn’t tell us to follow trends. It tells us to test everything. This video exposes what many have seen but few are willing to say out loud. Watch it all the way through.

I agree with what he says about the NAR, Word of Faith and Bethel; but Pentecostalism has plenty of false teaching of their own.

 

[PS95]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

We live in a time where truth is being replaced with experiences, emotions, and hype. Churches are growing. Crowds are gathering. Movements are spreading. But the real question is this… is it actually biblical?

The Word of God doesn’t tell us to follow trends. It tells us to test everything. This video exposes what many have seen but few are willing to say out loud. Watch it all the way through.

Hey Dave,
I've heard of some of the groups he mentioned.
I agree with him on the ones he pointed out.
But, I must be living under a rock because this is the first I've heard of this movement who think Christians will take over the world for Jesus, so He can return-- and the media, etc..
That's wacked. May be yet another reason not to trust the media! Does this group have name? Do you know any names of those preachers?

False teachings sure do abound. I can't say it's new- seems they just recycle themselves. Transforming themselves into angels of light. Some are obvious, some are very deceptive.

Who has everything right?- I can't say. I haven't found a church nearby that I 100% agree with on everything. I am one who thinks we should never divide over non- salvational matters- and that it's ok to say "I don't know" to some things rather than insisting on our own way for everyone else. Not everything detail is crystal clear. I find it sad on this forum to see some of the disagreements that lead people to call others unbelievers. That has not been my real life experience especially with more mature believers. We are all growing and should learn to be kinder to each other. We need to keep praying for people. Love is so important. I can deal with some non- salvational things I don't agree with- when I see love among the people in a church- it's so powerful. I think that a lot of believers feel the same way I do. I know of quite a few, so I think there are many more!

Of course, I am not speaking about those who come to forums to purposefully attempt to cause divisions trying convert Christians into their cults. They should not even be allowed to post without an "other faith" tag.. in my opinion. So many threads are sent off track and diverted by these people and cause confusion because they teach different doctrines which APPEAR as if Christians are utterly divided on everything.
For a new believer or a lurker that must be incredibly confusing. It makes a mockery of true Christianity. If a poster could only see an "other faith" tag they would not continue to engage these fakes which only gives them a platform to spew their lies. AND that is the very reason they post here, and not so much on other boards. It's a darn shame. Where there are designated boards naming their religion- they rarely post to those. They love the incognito way.-- Deception from the very start.
Mods don't enforce any statement of faith and this is the result.
Sorry for the rant- nothing changes here. frustrating..

 

[bdavidc]

Pentecostalism has plenty of false teaching of their own.

I agree with what you’re saying. There is false teaching in Pentecostal circles, but that’s not unique to them. You’ll find the same issue across just about every denomination.

At the end of the day, the real question isn’t the label on the church. It’s whether that local church is actually teaching and submitting to the Word of God.

Scripture is clear that deception can show up anywhere. “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine… and they shall turn away their ears from the truth” ~2 Timothy 4:3–4. That’s not limited to one group.

So it really does come down to the specific church. Some may hold fast to Scripture. Others drift into error. The only safe standard is to test everything by the Word: “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21.

Denomination doesn’t guarantee truth. Scripture does.

 

[Behold]

Who decides what is "actually biblical"?

What is "actually biblical" is : Paul's Theology., Paul's Doctrine, as it was personally given to Him by Jesus for the Body of Christ.
Later, He revealed it to the other apostles.
Peter understood this and declared in 2nd Peter, that Paul's Letters, are "SCRIPTURE",= equal to the Torah.
These later became Paul's 13 Epistles which contain all the doctrine for the NT Church.

 

[bdavidc]

I've heard of some of the groups he mentioned.
I agree with him on the ones he pointed out.
But, I must be living under a rock because this is the first I've heard of this movement who think Christians will take over the world for Jesus, so He can return-- and the media, etc..
That's wacked. May be yet another reason not to trust the media! Does this group have name? Do you know any names of those preachers?

I don't know much about it. Just heard it when the Pastor was talking about it. Some of these men really do teach versions of this. Lance Wallnau and C. Peter Wagner are the clearest examples. Others like Bill Johnson have helped promote the same “Seven Mountains” idea, even if they word it differently. The teaching itself is documented and centers on Christians taking influence or dominion over areas like government, media, and education.

Seven mountain mandate

 

[Behold]

I Christians taking influence or dominion over areas like government, media, and education.

Christians always have major influence.
How do you know?
Its because Prayer changes everything........everything.
Prayer, answered prayer is more then just influence, its literal CHANGE regarding a circumstance that needs to be resolved or redirected.

Now, if we study God's Salvation, as its based on FAITH...... then we find that the born again are "heirs of God", and "joint heirs with Jesus".
We find that the born again are this....>"as Jesus IS......so are (the born again) in THIS WORLD"..
This one.
Down here.
So, then, what is it that Christians are not able to control?.....Therefore, because we are OF God and Christ........then we have the same family status.

Paul teaches us that we are "heirs according to the Promise" that God made to Abraham.
And what is a main promise?
Its that we are become "heir of the world". Rom 4:13

Christians should want to know as much as can be known about God's Gift of Salvation, and we need to study this promise and find out what its all about, because the more you learn about God's Gift of Salvation,...then this leads to a vital end result, and that is, that you've "worked out your salvation" by learning all about it.

Most Christians know very little about their redemption, and that is why they confess sins, which does nothing for them.
Its also a fact that if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you are proving that you literally know nothing about it, and that is a very bad situation to find yourself in, especally if you've been saved for 5 or 20, or 50 yrs.

 

[PS95]

Who decides what is "actually biblical"?

Curious Mary

I think Behold does..

Christians should want to know as much as can be known about God's Gift of Salvation, and we need to study this promise and find out what its all about, because the more you learn about God's Gift of Salvation,...then this leads to a vital end result, and that is, that you've "worked out your salvation" by learning all about it.

Most Christians know very little about their redemption, and that is why they confess sins, which does nothing for them.
Its also a fact that if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you are proving that you literally know nothing about it, and that is a very bad situation to find yourself in, especally if you've been saved for 5 or 20, or 50 yrs.

Hey Behold--
Understand that Paul wrote volumes that did not survive- and remember he was writing to churches OF BELIEVERS who had already repented and been baptized! Do you hear preachers speaking to all believers telling them to get baptized? Of course not. He was baptized and he did baptize others, but not many- He was called to PREACH. Other men were baptizers.
Paul did not disagree with John and James. <--That's heresy.
Confession accompanies repentance. Paul speaks on repentance in his letters. You would see that if you would admit that Paul taught against believers sinning and admonished them to put them to death. Confession is the words and repentance the attitude and deeds. We show faith by our deeds.

Paul taught-
Acts 20: 21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

Paul's message to the Ephesians was centered on repentance and faith in Jesus..

and Luke 24:46-47
“So it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

and- 2 Cor 7:10​

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."​

​

The ongoing theme with Paul is not only does he teach us saved by grace through faith in Jesus, but also large part of his writings are about afterwards, how we are putting sin/flesh to death by the Spirit. Just one small example- You call this discipleship?- I call it sanctification- we are sanctified and we are being sanctified- we are saved and we are being saved- this is an ongoing walk- abiding in Him.​

Col 3:5-10- “Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire.” On account of these the wrath of God is coming. In these you too once walked, when you were living in them. But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices ... "

Romans 8:1-4 "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

Romans 6:1-4
What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness. 21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Galations 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

One trait of those whose sins are fully paid for is that we make war on our sin.

Continued next post--

 

[PS95]

I think Behold does..

Hey Behold--
Understand that Paul wrote volumes that did not survive- and remember he was writing to churches OF BELIEVERS who had already repented and been baptized! Do you hear preachers speaking to all believers telling them to get baptized? Of course not. He was baptized and he did baptize others, but not many- He was called to PREACH. Other men were baptizers.
Paul did not disagree with John and James. <--That's heresy.
Confession accompanies repentance. Paul speaks on repentance in his letters. You would see that if you would admit that Paul taught against believers sinning and admonished them to put them to death. Confession is the words and repentance the attitude and deeds. We show faith by our deeds.

Paul taught-
Acts 20: 21 "testifying to Jews, and also to Greeks, repentance toward God and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ."

Paul's message to the Ephesians was centered on repentance and faith in Jesus..

and Luke 24:46-47
“So it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.

and- 2 Cor 7:10​

"Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death."​

--We are to put them to death. But you can’t do that if you don’t admit/ confess — that you have any!!!
Confession/--You have to confess/admit your sins in order to make war on them. If you don’t think you have any, you won't be confessing. You won’t make war on them. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.” 1 John 1:9
The immediate context is not speaking about unbelievers. John is speaking about fellowship there. John uses the first-person plural pronouns “WE” and “US.” He also uses the adjective “OUR.”

Confessing our sins is agreeing with God that we have sin and it will not rule over us. If we don’t confess this truth, John says, you're living in an illusion. We’re lying, we’re deceived, we’re calling God a deceiver, and we’re not saved.--
If we believe we have no sin and that it doesn’t need to be killed, we’re living in a a lie- not in salvation. Confession of sin is not a fear of unforgiveness, but is one of the marks of someone who knows they are forgiven, and is growing in the Lord and walking with the Spirit.
Proverbs 28:13 “Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.”
Hiding our sins keeps us stuck, but bringing them to God leads to mercy and progress.

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”-- 1 John 2:1
and..
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much." --James 5:16

You are missing the major differences in understanding salvation (act of being saved) and sanctification (the daily act of developing holiness in a Christian’s life and becoming more and more like Jesus).
We are in a loving relationship - fellowship and we admit when we are wrong & apologize and are grateful for His sacrifice. It's not taken lightly but reverently and in confidence.

You say you don't have sins-? Well congrats, Behold you are the only one. Not even Paul said such a thing. He knew sin was in him and he also said he died daily!! --(dying to sin)-- That is not earning life- it is PROOF OF LIFE!
You should not mock what you do not understand. Read this carefully, ok?. It isn't scary nor is it a lack of faith - not at all! If anything it keeps us longing for Him and eager for His return and our new bodies. It is a walk!
Paul, Peter, John, James, Luke, Jude, Matthew were in agreement in preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus.
Grace, Repentance, Faith and abiding in Christ. It is utterly consistent.
Hope this helps.
I will not be arguing back n forth over this. It's not my first chance to speak with you on this. I hope you can open your mind to understand the difference between earning salvation, and how I am not comfortable with you saying once you think you are saved your
"performance doesn't matter at all."
Of course it does- it it the evidence of a saving faith!

Do not accuse me of having no faith, or of not being saved, or of trying to earn my salvation-- because it is simply not true.
God works inside of us-by His Spirit- it is all about Him.-
I am just a mere partaker of His grace relying on Him.

You say a person can claim faith in Jesus and never show any changes OR leave the faith entirely and deny Him until they die ,and the Lord will not deny that person. Paul's own words-

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 2 Timothy 2:12

this next verse DOES NOT make v 12 a lie-

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. v 13
Yes, He will be faithful to His word! - He is always faithful to Himself! He can not deny Himself!!
ABIDE IN ME.. I will deny Him before my Father---Remain faithful to the end.. etc etc etc

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


I don't agree with you. You go too FAR.

 

[rvmb]

--We are to put them to death. But you can’t do that if you don’t admit/ confess — that you have any!!!
Confession/--You have to confess/admit your sins in order to make war on them. If you don’t think you have any, you won't be confessing. You won’t make war on them. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.” 1 John 1:9
The immediate context is not speaking about unbelievers. John is speaking about fellowship there. John uses the first-person plural pronouns “WE” and “US.” He also uses the adjective “OUR.”

Confessing our sins is agreeing with God that we have sin and it will not rule over us. If we don’t confess this truth, John says, you're living in an illusion. We’re lying, we’re deceived, we’re calling God a deceiver, and we’re not saved.--
If we believe we have no sin and that it doesn’t need to be killed, we’re living in a a lie- not in salvation. Confession of sin is not a fear of unforgiveness, but is one of the marks of someone who knows they are forgiven, and is growing in the Lord and walking with the Spirit.
Proverbs 28:13 “Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.”
Hiding our sins keeps us stuck, but bringing them to God leads to mercy and progress.

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”-- 1 John 2:1
and..
"Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much." --James 5:16

You are missing the major differences in understanding salvation (act of being saved) and sanctification (the daily act of developing holiness in a Christian’s life and becoming more and more like Jesus).
We are in a loving relationship - fellowship and we admit when we are wrong & apologize and are grateful for His sacrifice. It's not taken lightly but reverently and in confidence.

You say you don't have sins-? Well congrats, Behold you are the only one. Not even Paul said such a thing. He knew sin was in him and he also said he died daily!! --(dying to sin)-- That is not earning life- it is PROOF OF LIFE!
You should not mock what you do not understand. Read this carefully, ok?. It isn't scary nor is it a lack of faith - not at all! If anything it keeps us longing for Him and eager for His return and our new bodies. It is a walk!
Paul, Peter, John, James, Luke, Jude, Matthew were in agreement in preaching the gospel of the Lord Jesus.
Grace, Repentance, Faith and abiding in Christ. It is utterly consistent.
Hope this helps.
I will not be arguing back n forth over this. It's not my first chance to speak with you on this. I hope you can open your mind to understand the difference between earning salvation, and how I am not comfortable with you saying once you think you are saved your
"performance doesn't matter at all."
Of course it does- it it the evidence of a saving faith!

Do not accuse me of having no faith, or of not being saved, or of trying to earn my salvation-- because it is simply not true.
God works inside of us-by His Spirit- it is all about Him.-
I am just a mere partaker of His grace relying on Him.

You say a person can claim faith in Jesus and never show any changes OR leave the faith entirely and deny Him until they die ,and the Lord will not deny that person. Paul's own words-

If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 2 Timothy 2:12

this next verse DOES NOT make v 12 a lie-

If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself. v 13
Yes, He will be faithful to His word! - He is always faithful to Himself! He can not deny Himself!!
ABIDE IN ME.. I will deny Him before my Father---Remain faithful to the end.. etc etc etc

2 Peter 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

Jude 1:4
For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation. They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.


I don't agree with you. You go too FAR.

"""If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 2 Timothy 2:12""

Eternal Security, Part 21 (2 Timothy 2:11-13)

Well, what if I deny Him? Then He will deny me. Deny me what? Reward and reigning, not entrance. But what about this last part here, this is my favorite part of the whole thing. If we are unfaithful Christ remains what? Faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. What if I screw the whole thing up? What if I trust Christ and build my whole life on wood, hay and stubble? What if, in the case of Timothy I trust Christ, get appointed to leadership in the church at Ephesus but succumb to the fear of man rather than the fear of God, what does that mean? What it means is a denial of reward; what it does not mean is a denial of salvation, because according to verse 13 Christ will never renege on his initial promise of granting the believer the gift of eternal life; that promise is yours. Even if I am unfaithful, the Greek word there in verse 13 for unfaithful is a, which is a negation, pisteuō, which can be translated unfaithful and faithless. If I am unfaithful to Christ as a Christian and even, God forbid, reach a point in my life where I stop even believing the gospel, the initial promise that God gave me that when I placed my faith in Him I’m saved, that can’t be taken away either. Do we understand that? Why? Because Jesus made you a promise. John 5:24, “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My Word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.”

 

[SavedInHim]

I don't know much about it. Just heard it when the Pastor was talking about it. Some of these men really do teach versions of this. Lance Wallnau and C. Peter Wagner are the clearest examples. Others like Bill Johnson have helped promote the same “Seven Mountains” idea, even if they word it differently. The teaching itself is documented and centers on Christians taking influence or dominion over areas like government, media, and education.

Seven mountain mandate

It's known as Dominionism, or Kingdom Now Theology, especially in the NAR. They believe that all authority in the body of Christ has been handed over to modern apostles and prophets. They've been teaching for quite a while now that before Christ returns the kingdoms of this world will be given over to the believers. There will be a glorious revival and perfect unity among Christians. What this is, really, is preterism and post-millenialism.

C. Peter Wagner, the so-called father of the NAR, wrote in his book On Earth as it is In Heaven: Answer God's Call to Transform the World, 2012:

"If, on the other hand, we now believe that God is mandating us to be involved in aggressive social transformation, it is obvious that we will arrive at a different viewpoint. We no longer accept the idea that society will get worse and worse because we now believe that God’s mandate is to transform society so that it gets better and better."​

​

"Seriously, I will confess that up until recently I knew what eschatology I did not believe, namely the traditional Left Behind futuristic view, but I was not able to verbalize what I actually did believe. My changing point came when I read Victorious Eschatology by Harold Eberle and Martin Trench. Victorious eschatology fits dominion theology like a hand in a glove. Eberle and Trench write, 'Before Jesus returns, the Church will rise in glory, unity, and maturity. The Kingdom of God will grow and advance until it fills the Earth.' "​

These quotes are from pages 87 & 88 of a PDF I found online.

So it's not so much a belief that Christ is limited by what we do, but that it's ordained by God that that's the way it will play out. Much of Christian nationalism in the US is also driven by these beliefs.

To me the scariest part of all is the idea that people believe in, and put themselves under the authority of, modern "apostles and prophets." Most of the so-called prophets associated with the NAR have been proven false many times over.

 

[soberxp]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

We live in a time where truth is being replaced with experiences, emotions, and hype. Churches are growing. Crowds are gathering. Movements are spreading. But the real question is this… is it actually biblical?

The Word of God doesn’t tell us to follow trends. It tells us to test everything. This video exposes what many have seen but few are willing to say out loud. Watch it all the way through.

What he said may be quite right.But I still didn't think he got to the point.For example,Many people understand the miracle of Jesus to cure people's diseases and disabilities asPhysical healing.But in fact, the deep meaning is that people are mentally and psychologically ill.Of course, it does not rule out that miracles happen to some people.But it doesn't always happen.Why is this?It didn't happen because those people went the wrong way, so God didn't let it happen.But we can't deny it.God can indeed cure people's physical diseases.This is a miracle.

In short, human beingsAlways need to learn the right path from mistakes.
And it is not someone's correct view that can guide us correctly, but relying on God.

Pay attention, one thing what he said is really correct.Everything depends on God,relying on God.

 

[Behold]

Hey Behold--
Understand that Paul wrote volumes that did not survive-

You're guessing again.

You call this discipleship?-​

Discipleship can be performed by religious non-christians, and by born again Christians.

Discipleship is not Salvation

Discipleship is what you do...........whereas Salvation is what God has provided as The Cross of Christ.

I call it sanctification-​

Christians are sanctified and justified and made righteous, on Day 1 of their born again CHRISTianity...,= having "eternal life".
So, Their Salvation is completed and they are "in Christ" and He is become unto them, all of those.

1 Corin 1:30 (KJV)

Now there is the walk of faith, and there is the specific discipline that is connected to a submitted life of serviving God, but none of that make you more sancififed then the Blood of Jesus that has already made every born again believer, as : = "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".

Jesus is eternal sanctification, and therefore all who are "in Christ" have been made sactified by Christ.

 

[Marymog]

I think Behold does..

Hey Behold--.........

I have behold blocked since he/she is not a very nice person.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

This is what our preacher in Charlotte, NC had to say last week:

Does he subscribe to and teach calvinism or once saved always saved?

If so he need to remove the beam of heresy from his own eye before attempting to correct others.

 

[PS95]

Now there is the walk of faith, and there is the specific discipline that is connected to a submitted life of serviving God, but none of that make you more sancififed then the Blood of Jesus that has already made every born again believer, as : = "the Righteousness of God, in Christ".

Jesus is eternal sanctification, and therefore all who are "in Christ" have been made sactified by Christ.

Of course there is the walk of faith which matters.
WE WILL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS. WE WILL KNOW THEM BY THE LOVE AMONG THE MEMBERS
1 John 3:7-- Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous;.
1 John 3:8a the one who practices sin is of the devil;

There are so very many verses to add there- but there is really no point with you.
You insist that those with no fruit or those who abandon the faith and deny the Lord until they die- are saved if they once thought so.
Absurd- denies the scriptures.
YOU GO TOO FAR.

 

[bdavidc]

Does he subscribe to and teach calvinism or once saved always saved?

If so he need to remove the beam of heresy from his own eye before attempting to correct others.

I’ve never heard him teach Calvinism or OSAS either. And there’s nothing showing that from his own church’s beliefs. That’s just being assumed, but it's not true.

So instead of throwing labels around, let’s deal with what was actually said. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21

If something he said is wrong, show it from Scripture. But calling it heresy because of a label without evidence doesn’t deal with truth. It just avoids the real discussion.

 

[bdavidc]

Christians always have major influence.
How do you know?
Its because Prayer changes everything........everything.
Prayer, answered prayer is more then just influence, its literal CHANGE regarding a circumstance that needs to be resolved or redirected.

Now, if we study God's Salvation, as its based on FAITH...... then we find that the born again are "heirs of God", and "joint heirs with Jesus".
We find that the born again are this....>"as Jesus IS......so are (the born again) in THIS WORLD"..
This one.
Down here.
So, then, what is it that Christians are not able to control?.....Therefore, because we are OF God and Christ........then we have the same family status.

Paul teaches us that we are "heirs according to the Promise" that God made to Abraham.
And what is a main promise?
Its that we are become "heir of the world". Rom 4:13

Christians should want to know as much as can be known about God's Gift of Salvation, and we need to study this promise and find out what its all about, because the more you learn about God's Gift of Salvation,...then this leads to a vital end result, and that is, that you've "worked out your salvation" by learning all about it.

Most Christians know very little about their redemption, and that is why they confess sins, which does nothing for them.
Its also a fact that if you believe you can lose your salvation, then you are proving that you literally know nothing about it, and that is a very bad situation to find yourself in, especally if you've been saved for 5 or 20, or 50 yrs.

That’s a lot being said, but it’s not being handled carefully with Scripture.

Prayer is real, but it doesn’t mean we control everything. “If we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us” ~1 John 5:14. God answers, not us controlling outcomes.

And being “heirs” doesn’t mean we run this world. Jesus said, “In the world ye shall have tribulation” ~John 16:33. That alone shuts down the idea that we’re in control here.

Also, saying confession of sin “does nothing” goes directly against Scripture. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us” ~1 John 1:9. That’s plain.

And “work out your own salvation” doesn’t mean learning about it intellectually. It says, “for it is God which worketh in you” ~Philippians 2:12–13. That’s a life being lived out, not head knowledge.

So this isn’t about how much someone “knows.”

It’s about whether what’s being said lines up with what God actually said.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

calling it heresy because of a label without evidence

Everybody knows calvinism is heresy if they know John 3:16

Calvinism rejects John 3:16 and claims it's a lie.

That’s just being assumed, but it's not true.

How would you know? Have you heard ALL his teachings?

Rather than wade through a bunch of videos I'll just ask up front if he teaches calvinism or reformed theology

It's to the point now where the vast majority of preachers and churches are in fact teaching false doctrine so I have no need to listening to their shuck n jive as they say a few good things and then later get in to the heresy that they espouse

That's why I think I'll stick with God's Word and THE Teacher the Lord sent - The Holy Spirit.