Mark 10:12 When was it possible for a wife to divorce her husband?

[101G]

I am still looking for an historical case were women could divorce their husbands, maybe in one of the Christian Kingdoms during the Middle Ages. There were cases where wives left their husbands....But no dissolution of marriage. Not even a process described.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT THESE SCRIPTURES. these scriptures hit it on the head as to what our Lord was speaking about in Mark.
1Cor 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
1Cor 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife".
PICJAG

 

[Grailhunter]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK AT THESE SCRIPTURES. these scriptures hit it on the head as to what our Lord was speaking about in Mark.
1Cor 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
1Cor 7:11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife".
PICJAG

We are in total agreeance on what you are stating. My point is that women in the Christian era were still considered property and property does not divorce you. You can call it what you want because they did not come with a notarized title, just under the rule of their husbands. No evidence of any bill of divorcement and it was not allowed for a woman to divorce her husband...Not what the Bible says, but rather what Christians did. The Bible says in one place that there is no difference between male and female and in other places women were under the rule of their husbands....Historically women's rights were zip until the modern era....and that is not due to Christianity, that is due to the civil courts.

How to sell your wife
George Wray tied a halter around his wife’s waist and headed to the nearest market. He wasn’t there to buy anything—he was there to sell his wife.

Onlookers shouted as he auctioned her off to the highest bidder, William Harwood. After Harwood turned over a single shilling to Wray, he put his arm around his purchase. “Harwood walked off arm in arm with his smiling bargain,”reported an onlooker, “with as much coolness as if he had purchased a new coat or hat.” It was 1847, and Wray had just gotten the equivalent of a divorce.

The scene sounds like an elaborate joke. In reality, it was anything but. Between the 17th and 19th centuries, divorce was prohibitively expensive. So some lower-class British people didn’t get them—they sold their wives instead. The custom seems outlandish today, but it could be found in public places like markets, taverns and fairs. Historians disagree on when or how the custom started and how widespread it was, but it seems to have been an accepted alternative divorce among lower-class Britons. Wife sales were crude and funny, but they also served a very real purpose since it was so hard to get a divorce.

If your marriage broke up in the 1750s, you had to obtain a private Act of Parliament—essentially, an exception to Britain’s draconian divorce law—to formally divorce. The process was expensive and time-consuming, so wife-selling arose as a form of faux divorce. It wasn’t technically legal, but the way it unfolded in public made it valid in the eyes of many.

People could simply abandon one another, but a woman who entered into relationships with other people were in constant danger of their previous husband swooping in to punish her new lover and get some money in the process. Legally, her husband could demand that his wife’s lover pay him a large amount of money for having sexual relations with his wife, a right she lacked since courts didn’t allow wives to sue their husbands for adultery. Wife sales were a way to sidestep that risk.

An illustrated scene from Thomas Hardy’s novel “The Mayor of Casterbridge” of a man selling his wife to highest bidder. (Credit: Universal History Archive/Getty Images)

Oddly enough, the sales took on theform of cattle auctions of the time. After announcing the sale, the man would put a ribbon or a rope around his wife’s neck, arm or waist and lead her to “market” (either an actual market or another public place). Then, he’d auction her off, often after declaring her virtues to the onlookers. Once she was purchased by another man, the previous marriage was considered null and void and the new buyer was financially responsible for his new wife.

Usually, wife sales were merely symbolic—there was just one bidder, the woman’s new lover. Sometimes there wasn’t a designated buyer, though, and an actual bidding war broke out. Men could announce a wife sale without informing their wife, and she might be bid on by total strangers. But women had to agree to the sale.

It would seem that the woman was at a disadvantage during a wife sale, but that wasn’t always the case. Since she was still married to her first husband under the law, he was technically entitled to all of her possessions (at the time, married women’s property all belonged to their husbands). The public nature of the sale, though, made it clear to one and all that the seller gave up his right to his former wife’s possessions. And the woman also sidestepped the very real threat of having her new lover sued by her first husband for “criminal conversation.”

“Through the sale,”writes legal scholar Julie C. Suk, “the first husband extracted a bribe from the wife’s lover in return for waiving his civil cause of action for criminal conversation.”

A husband in desperate need of money, selling his wife to the highest bidder in Guthrie, Oklahoma. (Credit: Bettmann Archive/Getty Images)

Public humiliation also played a role. Treating his cheating or estranged wife like a cow—even announcing her weight in public and bartering her like a farm animal—seems to have satisfied many bitter husbands. But usually, wife sales didn’t end in enmity. The wife, her new husband and her old one usually sat down for a pint of beer and a good laugh.

Overall, writes historian Lawrence Stone, the format of the sale was designed to seem legit. “All this elaborate symbolism had a very real purpose, which was to try to make the sale appear as legally binding as possible, especially with respect to any future financial responsibility by the husband for the wife,” he writes. Some wife sellers even drew up elaborate contracts to make the ritual seem as sale-like as possible.

Technically, though, wife sales didn’t dissolve the underlying marriage, and police eventually began breaking up the sales. Stone thinks that the practice was extremely rare, and that it attracted more attention than it deserves because of the temptation to spread word of the strange ritual far and wide—and even to make up fictional wife sales to sell newspapers. “In the end,”writes historian Roderick Phillips, “too little is known about wife sales to enable us to draw firm conclusions.”

What is clear, though, is that attending, talking about, and inventing wife sales was amusing indeed. Even the seller and his wife were usually described as gleeful and happy during the sale.

Take Joseph Thompson, who allegedly sold his wife in 1832,listed his wife’s bad qualities, calling her “a born serpent” and advising the buyers to “avoid frolicsome women as you would a mad dog, a roaring lion, a loaded pistol, cholera.” Then he listed her assets, which included the ability to milk cows, sing, and serve as a drinking companion. “I therefore offer here with all her perfections and imperfections, for the sum of fifty shillings,” he concluded, adding a fun flourish to the end of his marriage.

Wife sales largely ended in 1857 when divorce became easier. With it died a custom—and tales of the tradition are just as bizarre and entertaining as they were then.

 

[jshiii]

Mark 10:12

Was it possible for a woman to divorce her husband in the biblical era?

When (time period) was it possible for a woman to divorce her husband?

Would she write her husband a certificate / bill of divorcement?
Is there a scripture that addresses a wife writing her husband a certificate of divorce?

Is there any historical evidence of a woman divorcing her husband in the biblical era?

What would it mean is she just left her husband?

NASB
“and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

New KJV
And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

KJV
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Ok....the first thing that comes to my mind here is, someone is lonely and someone wants physical intimacy. But they are feeling guilty because of these desires, after a failed marriage of course. Give me a little time and I'll tell you the answer to your question. I need to pray first.

 

[Grailhunter]

Ok....the first thing that comes to my mind here is, someone is lonely and someone wants physical intimacy. But they are feeling guilty because of these desires, after a failed marriage of course. Give me a little time and I'll tell you the answer to your question. I need to pray first.

That is funny.....I am looking for a good answer.

 

[101G]

We are in total agreeance on what you are stating. My point is that women in the Christian era were still considered property and property does not divorce you. You can call it what you want because they did not come with a notarized title, just under the rule of their husbands. No evidence of any bill of divorcement and it was not allowed for a woman to divorce her husband...Not what the Bible says, but rather what Christians did. The Bible says in one place that there is no difference between male and female and in other places women were under the rule of their husbands....Historically women's rights were zip until the modern era....and that is not due to Christianity, that is due to the civil courts.

GINOLJC, to all.
Agreed, but let us point something out. Yes men in the OT owned everything, and property was property, but God by the mediator Moses put an end to that way of doing business, just putting away a wife for any and every whim?. men had to give a bill of Divorcement, for women NOW, BY GOD DECREE, are now treated farily and "EQUALLY, other words "PROTECTED" from the unfair husband. correct, men had all things in their names, and as said treated women as property. understand, not all men was like that. but a lot of them in ignorance, but with hard hearts grew in that direction, so God put an end to that, now wives who was divorced by their husband, leave now with substance to survive in this life. for hardhearted men, no all men, just put away their wifes, without giving them nothing to survive after marriage when they "departed" out of the house. and the bible give us a good example of this, Hagar, Abraham wife.

Genesis 21:9-14 "And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking." 10 "Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac." 11 "And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son." 12 "And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called." 13 "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed." 14 "And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba."
NOW, what's wrong with this picture? A. Abraham was filthy rich, and sent his "Wife" and "Son" out into the wilderness with nothing to survive. did not Abrahan have many camels? yes, why not give them at least one camel to make it through the wilderness. no he gave her only a loaf of bread and get this ... ONE bottle of water between the two of them. which bring us to our next point.
B. the reason why he sent them into the wilderness with just one loft of bread, and one bottle of water, he was not expecting them to survive, hence the Law, "till DEATH do you part". well God is not about "death", he's about life. so what man sent out, God sent her right back in. God is about all being FAIR. God seeing ahead implements the bill of divorcement, so that women who was "put away" for any reason by their hardhearted husband can now survive the ...... wilderness without the baggage of that old hardheaded husban. hence a NEW LIFE. GOD is about LIFE for everyone.

see how the bible give us teaching examples on any subject, just fine the teaching. all men was not that way, it even greved Abraham. (so baby momma trouble is nothing new, just ask Abraham). to keep civilly of the peace in the HOME, God remedy those hardhearted men who want to put away their wives for any reason. yes, "PAY UP".

now, one more point, C. in verse 14 above Abraham sent her (Hagar) away, and she departed. hold that thought on "departed". lets fast forward to 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:" 11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife."
here, a wife can depart, but if she do she cannot get Married again, WHY? because if she did not obtain a bill of Divorcement, then she is still married to her husband as the scriptures states, "or be reconciled to her husband". see by "DEPARTING" only, she is seperated from, from, from her HUSBAND, NOT DIVORCED FROM HER HUSBAND. but if she "depart", and obtain a bill of Divorcement, then she can marry another. just as our Lord Jesus said, the only way one can depart without obtaining a bill of divorcement is if one was in an espouse marriage, which then one can be put away, but that's only for Fornication, supportive scripture, Matthew 5:32 "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." BINGO.

when people start to read and understand the bible as to what the Lord Jesus is saying, and understand the difference in an espouse marriage, vs a consummated marriage. and understand the difference in a Divorce between Putting Away vs Bill of divorcement, then one can clearly see why, and who can marry who and who can Divorce who.

if one just take the time, sit down and learn the two types of marriages, and the two types of Divorcements then they can understand both what the Lord Jesus is saying and what the apostles are saying (which is the same thing) concering Marriage and divorce, and remarriage. what open up my understanding on this subject was when the Holy Spirit called my attention to Abraham and hagar. and gave me understanding of the two steps in marriage, and in divorce, then I saw clearly what God was saying and doing.

Marriage, divorce, and remarriage is about LIFE, and survival in this LIFE, and the enjoyment of of it in this Life. not some bounding rules which produce "DEATH" and not life.

I'll get to your other posts later, especially on, "How to sell your wife", and "Public humiliation". I got to do some running this morning, but we'll address those also, for these things are in the bible too. maybe you might want to re-read the Abraham and hagar story again.
hope this helped.
PICJAG.

 

[101G]

How to sell your wife?.
well there's nothing new under the sun. as said, this is man's doing, not God's. not only did men sell their wives, but other people also...... "SLAVES" and ... even their daughters. so nothing new there. but this vers caught my interest in a man selling his daughter. Exodus 21:7-11 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." 8 "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her." 9 "And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters." 10 "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." 11 "And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Now this was interesting. a maidservant that is betrothed, (or is espoused), she get all the amenities of a wife as Married, but remember betrothed. which enforce my position of bill of Divorcement in a consummated marriage. by being only betrothed she gets all of that, that a full wife gets, but if the husband don't do those thing any more, she may "DEPART" or God out FREE, Without Money.
now the flipside, what if the husband don't do these things and the marriage is consummated?, do she go out FREE, and without Money? this keep coming back to Abraham and Hagar. if the wife is departing, be fully departed, if no decit on her part.

but also, notice in verse 8. if the husband sell her in deceit, then he has no "POWER" over her. which bring me to Romans chapter 7. where the Law have "POWER" over you as long as you live. but if deceit is entered, then the LAW NO LONGER APPLY, or HAVE POWER OVER YOU. BINGO.

I'm glad you posted this topic for it have open up many other avenue to explore.

now your other point,

Public humiliation also played a role. Treating his cheating or estranged wife like a cow—even announcing her weight in public and bartering her like a farm animal—seems to have satisfied many bitter husbands. But usually, wife sales didn’t end in enmity. The wife, her new husband and her old one usually sat down for a pint of beer and a good laugh.

scripture, which is self explanatory but the script is flipped. "The punishment of him that slanders his wife".
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her," 14 "And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:" 15 "Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:" 16 "And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;" 17 "And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city." 18 "And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;" 19 "And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days." 20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" 21 "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

Hope this helped,

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

How to sell your wife?.
well there's nothing new under the sun. as said, this is man's doing, not God's. not only did men sell their wives, but other people also...... "SLAVES" and ... even their daughters. so nothing new there. but this vers caught my interest in a man selling his daughter. Exodus 21:7-11 "And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do." 8 "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her." 9 "And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters." 10 "If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish." 11 "And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money."

Now this was interesting. a maidservant that is betrothed, (or is espoused), she get all the amenities of a wife as Married, but remember betrothed. which enforce my position of bill of Divorcement in a consummated marriage. by being only betrothed she gets all of that, that a full wife gets, but if the husband don't do those thing any more, she may "DEPART" or God out FREE, Without Money.
now the flipside, what if the husband don't do these things and the marriage is consummated?, do she go out FREE, and without Money? this keep coming back to Abraham and Hagar. if the wife is departing, be fully departed, if no decit on her part.

but also, notice in verse 8. if the husband sell her in deceit, then he has no "POWER" over her. which bring me to Romans chapter 7. where the Law have "POWER" over you as long as you live. but if deceit is entered, then the LAW NO LONGER APPLY, or HAVE POWER OVER YOU. BINGO.

I'm glad you posted this topic for it have open up many other avenue to explore.

now your other point,

scripture, which is self explanatory but the script is flipped. "The punishment of him that slanders his wife".
Deuteronomy 22:13-21 "If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her," 14 "And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:" 15 "Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:" 16 "And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;" 17 "And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city." 18 "And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;" 19 "And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days." 20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:" 21 "Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you."

Hope this helped,

PICJAG.

I understand what you are saying and thank you. The whole point that they are selling their wives is mostly about, they are not doing what some might think they are doing.

When was it possible for a wife to divorce her husband? In the biblical era and going forward it is not easy to track. History is going to record the marriages and relationship failures of the upper classes. The average Christian relationships are usually not noted.
Their some indications that Christians in the lower classes were just walking away from marriage and remarrying. In township it could difficult for a man or a woman to get a divorce. We can discuss that as we go.

The topic can expand because of the overall inconsistencies of the topic of divorce in the Gospels.

1. the briefness of the discussions leaves a lot of questions....on a topic that is extremely important and potentially damning.
2. Christ is talking to Jews about Jewish...Mosaic Law and we do not know if He is referring to them that have multiple wives. The Jews continued to practice polygamy for another 1000 years.
3. We do not know if Christ was designating a new custom were wives could divorce their husbands.
4. His statement seems to suggest that Moses at least wrote one of the Mosaic Law....and that is a major issue.
5. We can see that the topic was so starting that it set His own Apostles back.
6. If a woman could not marry again after being divorced, it was nearly a death sentence.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba."

All this departing makes me think of:
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

NOW, what's wrong with this picture? A. Abraham was filthy rich, and sent his "Wife" and "Son" out into the wilderness with nothing to survive. did not Abrahan have many camels? yes, why not give them at least one camel to make it through the wilderness. no he gave her only a loaf of bread and get this ... ONE bottle of water between the two of them. which bring us to our next point.
B. the reason why he sent them into the wilderness with just one loft of bread, and one bottle of water, he was not expecting them to survive, hence the Law, "till DEATH do you part"

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Galatians 4:30
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

"till DEATH do you part"...

now, one more point, C. in verse 14 above Abraham sent her (Hagar) away, and she departed. hold that thought on "departed". lets fast forward to 1 Corinthians 7:10 "And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:" 11 "But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife."
here, a wife can depart, but if she do she cannot get Married again, WHY? because if she did not obtain a bill of Divorcement, then she is still married to her husband as the scriptures states, "or be reconciled to her husband". see by "DEPARTING" only, she is seperated from, from, from her HUSBAND, NOT DIVORCED FROM HER HUSBAND. but if she "depart", and obtain a bill of Divorcement, then she can marry another. just as our Lord Jesus said, the only way one can depart without obtaining a bill of divorcement is if one was in an espouse marriage, which then one can be put away, but that's only for Fornication, supportive scripture, Matthew 5:32 "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." BINGO.

Galatians 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

 

[Marymog]

Mark 10:12

Was it possible for a woman to divorce her husband in the biblical era?

When (time period) was it possible for a woman to divorce her husband?

Would she write her husband a certificate / bill of divorcement?
Is there a scripture that addresses a wife writing her husband a certificate of divorce?

Is there any historical evidence of a woman divorcing her husband in the biblical era?

What would it mean is she just left her husband?

NASB
“and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery."

New KJV
And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

KJV
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

Hi,

The Pharisees came up to Jesus and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”

My two cents worth, Mary

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, TO all.

All this departing makes me think of:
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

agree, but what this "departing" remind me of is this, one of last judgment, "the sheep and goat". Matthew 25:32 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"
NOW, WHAT HAPPENS AT THIS SEPERATION?, let's see,
Matthew 25:41 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:"

well this departing is an everlasting "departure".

Galatians 4:30
[30] Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

"till DEATH do you part"...

well VJ, you hit it on the head here with this one. in releation with the previous response above, tes, the casting out. for I did a word search on "deceit" and wow! what a picture I got, here's a link to the word search. https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/deceit.html
another word for "deceit" was almos endless. it gives the picture of everything opposit of rightiousness. ..... hence "EVIL" decit paits a picture of the evil one, pure evil. so in a marriage, it's the "evil" that is PUT AWAY. as you posted .... "cast out the bondswoman". well this is what divorce do in a marriage ..... "cast out the bondswoman", or in the wife point of view, "cast out the bondsman".

because God in the bible is calling his people out of bondage. as with phyuical bondgage in Egypt, and now in his calling us out of spiritual bondgage as in Bablyon. which babylon is symbolic of the "LAW". again as you said, "Cast out the bondwoman", or as the apostle Paul states, 1 Timothy 1:7-9 "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; (BINGO, one need to read that again). " 9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,".

lets gleem something here. marriage, as with the Law is good if a man use it lawfully. but if used deceitfully as in Exodus 21:8 "If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her."
NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY TO WHAT THE LORD SAID, Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away."
hold it, God don't have creditors, so who and why was we sold? the scripture answers itself, " Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away." BINGO.

again this bring us right back to what the lord Jesus said, Mark 10:2-5 "And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him." 3 "And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?" 4 "And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away." 5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept." BINGO, there it is "is it LAWFUL". no, , but if you have a decitful heart yes. for "hardness of heart" here is the greek word,
G4641 σκληροκαρδία sklerokardia (sklee-ro-kar-d̮iy'-a) n.
1. hard-heartedness.
2. (specially) , destitution of (spiritual) perception.
[feminine of a compound of G4642 and G2588]
KJV: hardness of heart
Root(s): G4642, G2588
look at #2 definition, destitution of (spiritual) perception.

once again, 1 Timothy 1:7-9 "Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm." 8 "But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; " 9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,".

they was not using the LAW "Spiritually". nor the Lawful way in Marriage.

so VJ, you're on point here. as said before, I see something here in Law and Marriage I must now study, again thanks for the Post. it has open my eyes to something else I have seen before.

PICJAG

 

[Grailhunter]

Hi,

The Pharisees came up to Jesus and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so.”

My two cents worth, Mary

That is one of the points made. The procedures for divorce was a Mosaic Law. The Israelite were under the assumption that the Mosaic Laws were given by God. Christ casts a certain amount of doubt on that by sayings "Moses allowed you to divorce" and goes on to indicate that God did not like that from the beginning.....issues. So was Moses making Laws against the will of God?

 

[101G]

That is one of the points made. The procedures for divorce was a Mosaic Law. The Israelite were under the assumption that the Mosaic Laws were given by God. Christ casts a certain amount of doubt on that by sayings "Moses allowed you to divorce" and goes on to indicate that God did not like that from the beginning.....issues. So was Moses making Laws against the will of God?

Grailhunter, Moses was only a mediator. God allowed for divorce. and Correct is was a Mosaic law (which was given to all Israel). hence the question, did women, or ONLYmen had this right. which bring me back to what our Lord said, Mark 10:12 "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." so, again I say yes, a woman could put away her husband, based on the grounds of deceit. but as said, if used lawfully marriage is Good. but the hardness of MEN... not all women then, but the hardness of most MEN hearts was full of deceit, but not all men, ok. yes, some women hearts was deceitful too as was Jezebel. but the whole look at marriage is rather if the heart was right which is "Spiritual". but I agree with you on this point, this Law was GEARED at mostly "MEN" with evil Hearts. so the problem was with MEN who was in charge, by owning everything. I see your Point. also I believe divorce was introduce to remedy or counter these men with hardhearts. and yes, MEN used the law of marriage unlawfully in their own eyes.
so my bottom line is this. Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."
PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter, Moses was only a mediator. God allowed for divorce. and Correct is was a Mosaic law (which was given to all Israel). hence the question, did women, or ONLYmen had this right. which bring me back to what our Lord said, Mark 10:12 "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." so, again I say yes, a woman could put away her husband, based on the grounds of deceit. but as said, if used lawfully marriage is Good. but the hardness of MEN... not all women then, but the hardness of most MEN hearts was full of deceit, but not all men, ok. yes, some women hearts was deceitful too as was Jezebel. but the whole look at marriage is rather if the heart was right which is "Spiritual". but I agree with you on this point, this Law was GEARED at mostly "MEN" with evil Hearts. so the problem was with MEN who was in charge, by owning everything. I see your Point. also I believe divorce was introduce to remedy or counter these men with hardhearts. and yes, MEN used the law of marriage unlawfully in their own eyes.
so my bottom line is this. Hebrews 13:4 "Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge."
PICJAG.

Grailhunter, Moses was only a mediator. God allowed for divorce.
Sorry, that is not what Christ said, and He indicated that was not what God wanted from the beginning. Now what you take from Christ's words, is up to you. And then we get into much of the Mosaic Law that was suppose to have came from God and it gets even harder to explain that it came to God.

 

[101G]

Grailhunter, Moses was only a mediator. God allowed for divorce.
Sorry, that is not what Christ said, and He indicated that was not what God wanted from the beginning. Now what you take from Christ's words, is up to you. And then we get into much of the Mosaic Law that was suppose to have came from God and it gets even harder to explain that it came to God.

Grailhunter you missed read me, did Adam depart from Eve when she ate? no, but notice Abraham with Hagar, was it right for him to sent here away to her DEATH, this was before the LAW. as as for beginning, did God from the beginning condemned men to sin? but did they sin, yes. God had a remedy for .... MAN SIN. just as he had a remedy for man "EVIL" heart in a Marriage. God knew what man can do, so God is not without a plan ..... of Salvation. divorce is a plan of salvation for women and some men who are in a decitiful marriage. thank God for introducing divorce .... when in need of it. as the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 7:15-17 "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: (VJ, your casting out the bondswoman), but God hath called us to peace." 16 "For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?" 17 "But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches."

so God is called us to PEACE, as in the beginning. when that PEACE/LAW is broken God have a remedy of a way of escape.
PICJAG.

 

[101G]

something one might want to conder on this topic.
Understand, marriage is about “power” and the control of it. Just as we’re seeing today in our Government, “deceitful” hardhearted men trying to hold for themselves “power” just as it was in slavery, yea as it was in marriages. As the observation was made in the unlawful act of “rape”. it was about “power” or the control over women, and not about the sexual act itself.

Take note here, through the lenses of deceitful men we need to see what divorce was for, the remedy to man …. control or to have POWER over the woman, which is straight from the devil, which is evil.

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

Grailhunter you missed read me, did Adam depart from Eve when she ate? no, but notice Abraham with Hagar, was it right for him to sent here away to her DEATH, this was before the LAW. as as for beginning, did God from the beginning condemned men to sin? but did they sin, yes. God had a remedy for .... MAN SIN. just as he had a remedy for man "EVIL" heart in a Marriage. God knew what man can do, so God is not without a plan ..... of Salvation. divorce is a plan of salvation for women and some men who are in a decitiful marriage. thank God for introducing divorce .... when in need of it. as the apostle said in 1 Corinthians 7:15-17 "But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: (VJ, your casting out the bondswoman), but God hath called us to peace." 16 "For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?" 17 "But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches."

so God is called us to PEACE, as in the beginning. when that PEACE/LAW is broken God have a remedy of a way of escape.
PICJAG.

I did not miss it entirely, I get what you saying about the OT. Understanding that the OT was a mess and it is not our religion. But the question is about the NT and if women could divorce....and if it really happened? The question, like I said, can expand to the whole conversion in the scriptures. And then again a persons opinion on divorce today?

 

[101G]

I did not miss it entirely, I get what you saying about the OT. Understanding that the OT was a mess and it is not our religion. But the question is about the NT and if women could divorce....and if it really happened? The question, like I said, can expand to the whole conversion in the scriptures. And then again a persons opinion on divorce today?

but we learn from the OT, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
yes, as said and what the Lord spoke, Mark 10:12 "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." so I'm convinced that a woman can put away her husband. and my last post hits at the core of all men/women problem, "power".
so my opinion on divorce today is yes, when needed. BASED ON WHAT WAS GIVEN AND DONE, yes, a man or a woman can divorce.
PICJAG

 

[Grailhunter]

but we learn from the OT, Romans 15:4 "For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."
yes, as said and what the Lord spoke, Mark 10:12 "And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." so I'm convinced that a woman can put away her husband. and my last post hits at the core of all men/women problem, "power".
so my opinion on divorce today is yes, when needed. BASED ON WHAT WAS GIVEN AND DONE, yes, a man or a woman can divorce.
PICJAG

On the question of when was it possible for a wife to divorce her husband? It is not entirely about what Christ said. Could they actually do it? I am looking for a historical event before the 1800's If you can provide one, that is what I am looking for.

As far as modern divorce...I am of the opinion that marriage is for people that are in love. People that are married and hate each other, end up on the five O' clock news.

 

[101G]

On the question of when was it possible for a wife to divorce her husband? It is not entirely about what Christ said. Could they actually do it? I am looking for a historical event before the 1800's If you can provide one, that is what I am looking for.

As far as modern divorce...I am of the opinion that marriage is for people that are in love. People that are married and hate each other, end up on the five O' clock news.

YES, it entirely about what Christ said, for there is no respect of person with God, and God is the final authority. what's good for the male is good for the female.

Now morden divorces, nothing new, do what joseph was going to do to mary, listen, Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
what the saying say? "Do the RIGHT thing".

PICJAG.

 

[Grailhunter]

YES, it entirely about what Christ said, for there is no respect of person with God, and God is the final authority. what's good for the male is good for the female.

Now morden divorces, nothing new, do what joseph was going to do to mary, listen, Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
what saying say? "Do the RIGHT thing".

PICJAG.

You are talking about before Joseph and Mary were married. Granted the Hebrew betrothed was taken more seriously than our engagement customs.