Marriage-Divorce-Remarriage is not Adultery

[richard79408]

Greetings from sunny Texas, my goal here is not to rehash old arguments although that will more than likely occur. Our first reaction to this topic is generally a little past the warm side.

We are in my life experience of sharing on boards and forums coming at this really huge problem from the punishment side--not God's side. This issue pretty much cuts across every religious barrier that exists here in America.

But I have been at this a long time and will share some of the things that most of us do not have a clue about when it comes to the traditional view of MDR.

For instance, one question to be asked when one studies this and when one uses Matt 19:9 is this: Did God give the Mosaic law to everyone at Mt. Sinai? Understanding this is a small first step in re evaluating what we believe about and what we thus teach about this subject.



Richard79408

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

If someone divorces their first wife or husband, but no adultery had occurred, then they are still legally married in God's eyes! And if they then go marry someone else, they live in sin! And that means your current marriage is not legal or binding according to God and you have forced your current wife or husband to live in SIN!

Malachi 2:16: “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.”

Matthew 19:9 says, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman COMMITS ADULTERY."

See also Matthew 5:32, But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

God bless.

 

[7angels]

If someone divorces their first wife or husband, but no adultery had occurred, then they are still legally married in God's eyes! And if they then go marry someone else, they live in sin! And that means your current marriage is not legal or binding according to God and you have forced your current wife or husband to live in SIN!

Malachi 2:16: “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.”

Matthew 19:9 says, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman COMMITS ADULTERY."

See also Matthew 5:32, But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.

God bless.

truthseeker you make it sound as if a person finds out the person they are married to is wrong so they divorce and then get remarried and because of this they will be committing adultry the rest of heir life. if this is true then answer this question: if a person is a christian and is trying to get into the office of bishop but has had a divorce he is no longer qualified for that office. but a nonbeliever who has had a divorce gets saved and can hold the office of bishop after he is brought into the church. now why is God's forgiveness good enough for the unsaved but for the christian person God's forgiveness is not good enough?

if it is not true then you have just refuted your own post.

you quote mal 2:16 but i tell you this. God hates all sin and no one sin is any better or worse to God than another sin.
you quote matt 19:9 and 5:32 but i tell you that just because a person commits adultry, they can ask for repentence for their sin and God is just to forgive them as if they have done nothing wrong.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

truthseeker you make it sound as if a person finds out the person they are married to is wrong so they divorce and then get remarried and because of this they will be committing adultry the rest of heir life. if this is true then answer this question: if a person is a christian and is trying to get into the office of bishop but has had a divorce he is no longer qualified for that office. but a nonbeliever who has had a divorce gets saved and can hold the office of bishop after he is brought into the church. now why is God's forgiveness good enough for the unsaved but for the christian person God's forgiveness is not good enough?

if it is not true then you have just refuted your own post.

you quote mal 2:16 but i tell you this. God hates all sin and no one sin is any better or worse to God than another sin.
you quote matt 19:9 and 5:32 but i tell you that just because a person commits adultry, they can ask for repentence for their sin and God is just to forgive them as if they have done nothing wrong.

7angels, you say "if that is true", but of course it's true, read the Bible and what God says about divorce. If someone divorces and remarries, they commit sin and live in sin, if the original divorce did not have adultery as the cause. You cannot argue with Bible my friend.

And your question about into the office of bishop, is invalid because no such thing is taught in Scripture about the Earthly procedures done to get a bishop into office. The steps needed to get into office is based on non-biblical steps, and I can prove it by asking you this... what would I need to do to get into the office of bishop and then show me those steps taught in Bible?

And this is not a question of one person being forgiven and the other person not, this is about living a Holy life and obeying God. If someone knows they are living in sin and with a particular sin, and willfully continues doing it anyway, then is that person truly a child of God and saved and born again? Yes or No?

Any person who willfully breaks Gods Commandments, has NO TRUTH and there is no light in them! [Read 1John 2:4]

And your last comments are flawed and contradict Scripture teaching, because according to your teaching, if a Christian realises they are living with a particular sin in in their lives, that they need NOT repent of that sins and keep going anyway living in that sin. But that contradicts Bible and is a very very dangerous and false doctrine that you teach that a person can continue living with their willfully sinning and be saved and forgiven anyway, so don't bother repenting. Oh dear oh dear... that's one dangerous doctrine you are teaching

Hasn't anyone ever taught you that REPENTING from SIN is a necessity for salvation? Do you need to see Bible proof for that? Do you seriously teach a doctrine that says that if a person comes to Christ for salvation that they need not repent? Yes or No?

Why did Jesus say this? Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

And why are these verses in the Bible?

Matthew 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:

Mark 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 6:12 So they went out and preached that people should repent.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Revelation 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

So please answer me this question.... can a Christian who continues to willfully commit adultery day to day, and realises they live in sin and adultery, yet refuse to repent of their sins, can they be saved and inherit eternal life and are they doing God's Will? Yes or No?

Is it God's will that someone live in adultery and refusing to repent? Yes or No?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.

God bless.

... Did God give the Mosaic law to everyone at Mt. Sinai? Understanding this is a small first step in re evaluating what we believe about and what we thus teach about this subject.
Richard79408

Richard, do you know the difference between the Laws, e.g Moral Law, Ceremonial law, Civil Law? If yes, then please explain to me the differences and who the individual laws were applied to. Thank you Richard.

God bless.

 

[7angels]

7angels, you say "if that is true", but of course it's true, read the Bible and what God says about divorce. If someone divorces and remarries, they commit sin and live in sin, if the original divorce did not have adultery as the cause. You cannot argue with Bible my friend.

And your question about into the office of bishop, is invalid because no such thing is taught in Scripture about the Earthly procedures done to get a bishop into office. The steps needed to get into office is based on non-biblical steps, and I can prove it by asking you this... what would I need to do to get into the office of bishop and then show me those steps taught in Bible?

And this is not a question of one person being forgiven and the other person not, this is about living a Holy life and obeying God. If someone knows they are living in sin and with a particular sin, and willfully continues doing it anyway, then is that person truly a child of God and saved and born again? Yes or No?

Any person who willfully breaks Gods Commandments, has NO TRUTH and there is no light in them! [Read 1John 2:4]

And your last comments are flawed and contradict Scripture teaching, because according to your teaching, if a Christian realises they are living with a particular sin in in their lives, that they need NOT repent of that sins and keep going anyway living in that sin. But that contradicts Bible and is a very very dangerous and false doctrine that you teach that a person can continue living with their willfully sinning and be saved and forgiven anyway, so don't bother repenting. Oh dear oh dear... that's one dangerous doctrine you are teaching

Hasn't anyone ever taught you that REPENTING from SIN is a necessity for salvation? Do you need to see Bible proof for that? Do you seriously teach a doctrine that says that if a person comes to Christ for salvation that they need not repent? Yes or No?

Why did Jesus say this? Matthew 4:17 From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”

And why are these verses in the Bible?

Matthew 11:20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:

Mark 1:15 and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent, and believe in the gospel.”

Mark 6:12 So they went out and preached that people should repent.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish.

Revelation 2:22 Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

So please answer me this question.... can a Christian who continues to willfully commit adultery day to day, and realises they live in sin and adultery, yet refuse to repent of their sins, can they be saved and inherit eternal life and are they doing God's Will? Yes or No?

Is it God's will that someone live in adultery and refusing to repent? Yes or No?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven.

God bless.

truthseeker you misunderstand what i am trying to tell you. what you are talking about with adultry and living in sin is according to old testament law. do you know the difference between the old covent and the new covenant? we no longer are to live according to the law but by grace. how can you judge a person when you do not know their heart? it is biblical that were are to be as angels when we get to heaven and we will not be given in marriage. the word teaches that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. so had sin not entered into this world then man and woman may never of even gotten married. i believe marriage came about because of the sin eve did in the garden(i don't know why i posted this)..

you asked me this question: can a Christian who continues to willfully commit adultery day to day, and realises they live in sin and adultery, yet refuse to repent of their sins, can they be saved and inherit eternal life and are they doing God's Will? Yes or No? the answer is yes it is possible even if not very probable. there is no way a person can lose their salvation once they are saved unless God convicts us of something he wants changed and we refuse to obey. this will eventually lead us to hearden our hearts against God and eventually we will lose our salvation.

how can you use 1 john 2:4? do you know how many laws are in the bible? i can bet you that you are failing in more than half of those laws. so that verse can be used on you, me or almost anyone else.

on repentance i stated that God hates all sin and no one sin is any better or worse to God than another sin. but i tell you that just because a person commits adultry, they can ask for repentence for their sin and God is just to forgive them as if they have done nothing wrong. that is not unscriptural.

you ask: Is it God's will that someone live in adultery? Yes or No? no it is not right but you are judging people which is unscriptural, you forget that intent is added to the actual crime of the sin, you forget that we are under grace and not the law, and you forget that by what you judge you will be responsible for yourself.

now i have questions for you truthseeker.
-how often do you get your prays answered?
-what spiritual gifts do you have?
-how many times have you healed someone?
-when is the last time you used your gifts of the spirit?
-how often does God talk to you a day?

please answer truthfully. i look forward to your answers.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

truthseeker you misunderstand what i am trying to tell you. what you are talking about with adultry and living in sin is according to old testament law. do you know the difference between the old covent and the new covenant?...

Hold your horse my friend, please don't tell me you are like some others on this forum that I have come across, they completely avoid my questions and sidestep my questions and then ask me questions instead. You didn't answer all my questions.

I am happy to answer ALL your QUESTIONS, but fair is fair, first answer ALL my QUESTIONS.

God bless.

 

[richard79408]

Greetings,

Thank you for your responses..but you did not answer the question? Here is the original law given by Moses to the people?
I mention this because this is one of our major problems--we just react without thinking because one believes that they already know the answer.

And, based on the information one has at hand--that is the way we tend to do things--But can we learn and reconsider when new information is put on the table that we have not considered in making our conclusions??

Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.
Deu 24:2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife.
Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

Now--Do you know that in scripture--this is the first law given by God to man governing Divorce?

That Matt 19:9 is based on this law?

Since Jesus did not make new law during his earthly ministry--From a reading of Matt 19:3-9 it is clear that both Jesus and the Jews knew and understood this law..

But we do not seem to be able to..

This law was not given to the Jewish neighbors whom we identify as Gentiles{anyone not a Jew}.

Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Do we understand the fact that God never gave that Deut 24:1-4 law to anyone but those standing there that day and to their descendants?

This means that Matt 19:9 has never ever ever applied to anyone but the Jews--and since the cross--That law is gone and no one today can be under it.

In the scriptural example that we do have--We find God authorizing a putting away and giving of the bill of divorcement for any reason--any reason save adultery.

In fact we find a woman legally divorced twice for reasons other than adultery--and she is free to REMARRY FOR THE THIRD TIME except she cannot return to her first husband.
So those folks who are [a] saying that the only reason for a divorce is adultery--are not giving it as given.
And what does that make us when we turn the scriptures around{scriptures that do not apply to us} and we turn them and use them as a weapon on folks who are caught up in sin..


you asked
Richard, do you know the difference between the Laws, e.g Moral Law, Ceremonial law, Civil Law? If yes, then please explain to me the differences and who the individual laws were applied to. Thank you


Yes, I do and under the Mosaical law--laws applied only to the Jews--applies to no one alive today--Which is one reason why Matt 19:9 does not apply to anyone living today. No one today ever lived under that law and that law was never given to anyone today..To attempt to live under the law is die already dead...because that law never ever saved anyone...
Richard79408

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

ATTENTION Richard:

I have a question for you.... Were the 10 Commandment only ever given to the Jews or to the whole world and everyone?

If your answer is for the Jews only, then are you saying that non-Jesus are free and given permission by the Almighty God to willfully break ALL the 10 Commandments Moral Law? Yes or No?

For example, are you teaching and claiming that non-Jews alive today are given permission by God and free and allowed to willfully commit adultery etc? Yes or No?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

Greetings from sunny Texas, my goal here is not to rehash old arguments although that will more than likely occur. Our first reaction to this topic is generally a little past the warm side.

We are in my life experience of sharing on boards and forums coming at this really huge problem from the punishment side--not God's side. This issue pretty much cuts across every religious barrier that exists here in America.

But I have been at this a long time and will share some of the things that most of us do not have a clue about when it comes to the traditional view of MDR.

For instance, one question to be asked when one studies this and when one uses Matt 19:9 is this: Did God give the Mosaic law to everyone at Mt. Sinai? Understanding this is a small first step in re evaluating what we believe about and what we thus teach about this subject.



Richard79408

Paul uses the divorce example to explain how Jesus can marry us when we die to our old nature in Romans 7.

A woman is married to her husband as long as he lives...otherwise it is adultery.
A man can marry again if his wife is unfaithful. Otherwise he is responsible for his wifs's subsequent infidelity.

The bottom line is that a woman was created for a man. This is the biblical viewpoint.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Episkopos, I have a question for you.


What is your personal belief about the Church being Christ's BRIDE? Are we legally married to Christ seeing we are His Bride? And can we commit adultery against Christ by unifying with a false religion?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, I have a question for you.


What is your personal belief about the Church being Christ's BRIDE? Are we legally married to Christ seeing we are His Bride? And can we commit adultery against Christ by unifying with a false religion?

God bless.

We who are no longer under the law but under the law of the Spirit of life are now betrothed to the Lamb. The wedding ceremony is for later. We can be divorced from the Lord through spiritual infidelity. Unlike the Jews who held a year-long betrothal...a betrothal in Christ lasts as long as we remain in the mortal body.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

We who are no longer under the law ....

What Law exactly do you refer to that we are no longer under? The Ceremonial Law? The Civil Law? Or the Moral Law or ALL Laws?

Which Law exactly are Christians now allowed to willfully violate and break, according to you and your beliefs?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

What Law exactly do you refer to that we are no longer under? The Ceremonial Law? The Civil Law? Or the Moral Law or ALL Laws?

Which Law exactly are Christians now allowed to willfully violate and break, according to you and your beliefs?

God bless.

A person who walks in Christ needs no other law. It is when we walk in our own strength that we need to heed the law. The law is made for transgressors. So then the true purpose of the law is to indicate whether we are walking after our own carnal strength...or the power of Christ. Those who walk in the power of Christ don't need the law. Christ accomplishes the law in those who abide in Him. That is the gospel.

The law just tells us where we are living from. Like a meter. The law observance argument is moot. If you are trying to follow the law, then you are not following Christ.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

A person who walks in Christ needs no other law. It is when we walk in our own strength that we need to heed the law. The law is made for transgressors. So then the true purpose of the law is to indicate whether we are walking after our own carnal strength...or the power of Christ. Those who walk in the power of Christ don't need the law. Christ accomplishes the law in those who abide in Him. That is the gospel.

The law just tells us where we are living from. Like a meter. The law observance argument is moot. If you are trying to follow the law, then you are not following Christ.

You didn't answer my question, so I am still seeking clarity from you. Which Law exactly are you talking about? The Ceremonial Law? The Civil Law? Or the Moral Law or ALL Laws?

For example, do you teach that we are no longer under the 10 Commandment Moral Law and are now free to violate and break all the 10 Commandments?

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

You didn't answer my question, so I am still seeking clarity from you. Which Law exactly are you talking about? The Ceremonial Law? The Civil Law? Or the Moral Law or ALL Laws?

For example, do you teach that we are no longer under the 10 Commandment Moral Law and are now free to violate and break all the 10 Commandments?

God bless.

Those who walk in Christ do not observe the law...they are too busy observing Christ. Morality is for the carnally minded. To be in CHrist is to be spiritually minded. A human understanding is like a wall that men erect to keep out the truth from dawning on them...and saving them.

Legalists had a hard time with Jesus' behaviour. So it is today with the those who misunderstand the law in thinking we have to TRY really hard to accomplish it.

 

[richard79408]

Greetings Truthseeker,
you asked

I have a question for you.... Were the 10 Commandment only ever given to the Jews or to the whole world and everyone?

My response--As I answer this question--one comes to my mind so I will share it--I do not believe that God lied to us--and, I am of the opinion that you don't believe that God lied to us--yet it is clear to me you understood the text that I used and were not happy with it.
Here is the text...
Deu 5:1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Now--in answering your question--Were the 10 Commandment only ever given to the Jews or to the whole world and everyone?

The answer is clearly, that none of the Mosaic law including the ten commandments was given to any but to those so stated..

Consider the consequences of said statement of God. Not anyone prior --let me rephrase this--None of the descendants of Abraham that were not present at Mt. Sinai were not given the ten commandments.

As a point of truth--none of the neighboring Gentiles were given the ten commandments. So yes, unless you can show me with scripture that God changed His mind and did give the ten commandments to others--the answer from scripture is only the Jews and only those Jews present at Mt. Sinai and their descendants were given the ten commandments--along with Deut 24:1-4.
Then you asked

If your answer is for the Jews only, then are you saying that non-Jesus are free and given permission by the Almighty God to willfully break ALL the 10 Commandments Moral Law? Yes or No?

My response--To the best of my knowledge of scripture and it is considerable but not total--God has never ever given permission for anyone to sin period.
Now, let me share with you what I have discovered on this journey and then you will have to check for yourself OK??
We know the Mosaic law did not exist until Mt. sinai--we also know that Joseph lived long prior to Mt. Sinai and can we agree that Joseph knew that adultery was wrong?
Then my question is: HOW? How did Joseph know that Adultery was wrong? He knew it long prior to the Mosaic law.
Many years ago I sat in a boring philosophy class--My textbook was by a guy named Trueblood--I think. He talked about folks knowing that sin was sin because of a sense of "oughtness" that we have when we are born.
Many years later--I came to understand this sense of "oughtness" as being God's Moral law of sin and of death.
We have this law at birth..but where law is not imputed--neither is sin. But as children grow--they reach an age some call the age of accountability--it is called many names--but this one works for me.
Paul says it well in Romans 7--Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
And, that is what happens to us..The Mosaic law is gone..It disappeared at the cross as a result of the Jews putting Jesus to death. It took them a while to figure it out and that is what Part of Romans 7 is about.

you asked

For example, are you teaching and claiming that non-Jews alive today are given permission by God and free and allowed to willfully commit adultery etc? Yes or No?

My response--No, God holds all men who are not Christian accountable to His Moral law of sin and of death. Each human being receives this at birth.
I am quite sure that some of this is new to you. Every since the garden--men grow old and die--due to the sin.
So think about it...
YOu can go to http://rgfheart.com/abs where this and many other things are explained with scripture--
Also I believe that you define adultery differently from the texts which is not going to help you...Here is the biblical definition of adultery--Deu 22:22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel.
Taken with Deut 24:1-4-- God Truthseeker has never ever authorized a divorce-- a putting away and the giving of the bill of divorcement for the one guilty of adultery. Not ever.
Richard 79408

 

[Episkopos]

We need to realize where we are living from. That is the whole purpose of the law. By seeking to obey the law carnally one becomes worse than the sinners.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Those who walk in Christ do not observe the law......

So which of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break Episkopos?

God bless.

Greetings Truthseeker,.....God Truthseeker has never ever authorized a divorce-- a putting away and the giving of the bill of divorcement for the one guilty of adultery. Not ever.
Richard 79408

Ok thank you for sharing your beliefs with me Richard.

God bless.

 

[Episkopos]

So which of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break Episkopos?

God bless.

Are you a person or else just a spam machine? You have asked me and others this over and over. If you are a real person I realize you may have cognitive issues. Your brain is stuck in a conditioned loop. Brainwashed people do this. I don't know the word that makes you snap out of it.

Snap out of it!

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Are you a person or else just a spam machine? You have asked me and others this over and over. If you are a real person I realize you may have cognitive issues. Your brain is stuck in a conditioned loop. Brainwashed people do this. I don't know the word that makes you snap out of it.

Snap out of it!

Episkopos, the reason I ask some questions over and over is that people sidestep the question like you just did in this latest post. If you had have just answered the question instead, I can finally stop asking the question.

So Episkopos, please, what is your answer to the question? Just give me a direct and honest answer so then I will never need to repeat the question.

So which of the 10 Commandments do you willfully violate and break?

Thank you. God bless.