marriage of the Lamb---Pre Trib ??

[Dave M]

Revelation 19:7-9
Let us rejoice and exult and give him the glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his Bride has made herself ready; it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints. And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”


I cant help but wonder why Pre trib theory says this happens during the tribulation????? why would they start the Marriage of the Lamb before all believers are saved??? We know for a fact there are believers on the earth during the tribulation are they not married to the Lamb also???


Revelation 19:1-21 ESV / 4 helpful votes
After this I heard what seemed to be the loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, crying out, “Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for his judgments are true and just; for he has judged the great prostitute who corrupted the earth with her immorality, and has avenged on her the blood of his servants.” Once more they cried out, “Hallelujah! The smoke from her goes up forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who was seated on the throne, saying, “Amen. Hallelujah!” And from the throne came a voice saying, “Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, small and great.” ...

in the very begging of the chapter,, which to me suggest that this happens before the marriage supper ,, the judgement occurs, well I would have to think that happens after tribulation, giving more evidence that the supper being after the tribulation with all believers makes much more sense to me.


any thoughts??

 

[marks]

I cant help but wonder why Pre trib theory says this happens during the tribulation????? why would they start the Marriage of the Lamb before all believers are saved??? We know for a fact there are believers on the earth during the tribulation are they not married to the Lamb also???

I'm pre-trib, but I think the wedding feast of the Lamb is after Jesus returns to earth.

But I see Isael as the bride, not the church. The church is compared in simile to being wed to God, but Israel is actually stated as being wed to God, then divorce, to be re-wed.

A key clue is in . . . many will come from the east and west . . .

Much love!

 

[Philip James]

any thoughts??

Hello Dave,

The wedding feast began at the last supper, and yes, Israel was the bride.

What mercy, what grace, what wondrous joy, that the gentiles were welcomed into that union!

You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[101G]

The wedding feast began at the last supper, and yes, Israel was the bride.

Not saying that you're right or wrong, and I can see your assumption. but consider this, if the Last supper is the wedding feast and Israel is the bride, why then do the apostle Paul say this, Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob". but did not God blind Israel until the gentiles come in? yes, so how do you fit this Last Supper as the wedding feast? to a Pre Trib until the gentiles come in?

as said I can understand your assertion of the Last supper the passover?. and the entrance of the NEW COVENANT? but how is this leading to a Pre Trib when clearly the Lord Jesus said, Matthew 24:29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory".

so the Lord Jesus is coming "AFTER" the tribulation, not before. so please give your reasoning of the Last supper as constituting a pre-tribulation before the Gentiles get fully in?

PICJAG.

 

[Dave M]

But I see Isael as the bride, not the church

Ephesians 5:25-27----------25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.

--------------------it seems he is talking figurative, but suggesting a bride and groom, and the bride would be the church

Revelation 21-9,,10
9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,


-------------------here we have the bride being defined as the new Jerusalem

maybe we wont know until we get to the other side??????

 

[Philip James]

Not saying that you're right or wrong, and I can see your assumption. but consider this, if the Last supper is the wedding feast and Israel is the bride, why then do the apostle Paul say this, Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob". but did not God blind Israel until the gentiles come in? yes, so how do you fit this Last Supper as the wedding feast?

Hello 101G,

I think we can see the answer to your question right there in Romans 11.

There are 3 groups identified here,

the 'remnant chosen by Grace' (vs 5) are those faithful Israelites who entered into the New Covenant with Jesus (beginning with the apostles)

those who were blinded and rejected the Messiah vs 7-8. These have been 'broken off' for their unbelief (v 20)

the gentiles that are grafted in (v 17-18)

but when our Lord lifts the blindness from the rest of Israel (those that were broken off) they will be grafted back in! vs 23 and 24

This is not another new covenant that will be made with them, but they will be welcomed into the New Covenant which was established at the last supper.

'This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood'

to a Pre Trib until the gentiles come in?

I don't hold to a pre-trib 'rapture'. Rather I expect that at the final unleashing of evil, the Church must walk in the passion of her Lord. She will be finally rejected, stripped, beaten, mocked and put to death... (think Holocaust on a global scale..). But after crucifixtion.. Glory!
Just as with Christ, the enemy will think he has won the victory, but then shall come His end at the glorious coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[101G]

Hello 101G,

I think we can see the answer to your question right there in Romans 11.

There are 3 groups identified here,

the 'remnant chosen by Grace' (vs 5) are those faithful Israelites who entered into the New Covenant with Jesus (beginning with the apostles)

those who were blinded and rejected the Messiah vs 7-8. These have been 'broken off' for their unbelief (v 20)

the gentiles that are grafted in (v 17-18)

but when our Lord lifts the blindness from the rest of Israel (those that were broken off) they will be grafted back in! vs 23 and 24

This is not another new covenant that will be made with them, but they will be welcomed into the New Covenant which was established at the last supper.

'This cup is the New Covenant in My Blood'





I don't hold to a pre-trib 'rapture'. Rather I expect that at the final unleashing of evil, the Church must walk in the passion of her Lord. She will be finally rejected, stripped, beaten, mocked and put to death... (think Holocaust on a global scale..). But after crucifixtion.. Glory!
Just as with Christ, the enemy will think he has won the victory, but then shall come His end at the glorious coming of our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Peace be with you!

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

first thanks for the reply. second, yes all Israel shall be save, but in the OP, is this before the ...I call so called rapture, just my opinion, and in that which I know it's the same one covenant.

and Yes as you can see I'm not a pre-trib believer either.

so since there is only one covenant for all, the question, "is the gathering of the fullnest of the Gentiles", before the .. "Rapture" or not? but from what you're saying is no, "the Church must walk in the passion of her Lord. She will be finally rejected, stripped, beaten, mocked and put to death... (think Holocaust on a global scale..). But after crucifixtion.. Glory!".
I cain't agree with all of that happening to church, or maybe to those who tried to pas off as the body of christ, but not the body itself.

again thanks for the reply. you be blessed also.

again, thanks for a civil response, now of days that a rare animal.

PICJAG.

 

[Philip James]

"is the gathering of the fullnest of the Gentiles", before the .. "Rapture" or not?

Well, i see the 'rapture' happening when Jesus returns. So if i understand your question then yes, before.


Peace!

 

[Philip James]

or maybe to those who tried to pas off as the body of christ, but not the body itself.

The 'pretenders' will either be converted, or quickly fall away in an attempt to save their lives. I feel for those with young children, it will be a difficult test...

Lord preserve us!

 

[theophilus]

I cant help but wonder why Pre trib theory says this happens during the tribulation????? why would they start the Marriage of the Lamb before all believers are saved??? We know for a fact there are believers on the earth during the tribulation are they not married to the Lamb also???

At the Marriage Jesus is united with his bride, the Church. The Church is made up of all who have been baptized into it by the Holy Spirit. This baptism began at Pentecost. Before Pentecost the nation of Israel was known as the wife of the Father, so it is not included in the Church. John the Baptist said he was a friend of the Bridegroom but not part of the Bride.

The one who has the bride is the bridegroom. The friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly at the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is now complete.
John 3:29 ESV

Only those saved between Pentecost and the Rapture are part of the Bride. Those saved before constitute the wife of the Father. Many will be saved during the tribulation and those born during the Millennium will also need to be saved, but these also are not part of the bride.

(Will those saved after the rapture be associated in some special way with the Holy Spirit? As far as I know the Bible says nothing about this so we will just have to wait and see. It just seems unlikely to me that if the Father has his Wife and the Son has his Bride the Holy Spirit will be left out and remain the only bachelor in the Trinity.)

 

[Dave M]

Only those saved between Pentecost and the Rapture are part of the Bride. Those saved before constitute the wife of the Father. Many will be saved during the tribulation and those born during the Millennium will also need to be saved, but these also are not part of the bride.

thankyou for sharing I see this as a large part of people view on the rapture,,,basically the people who go to Christ during the tribulation is not part of the Church if I am understanding you correctly..........

I just have not been able to find any scripture to support this, what I have found seems to say the oppiste

1 Corinthians 1:2:
“To the church of God which is in Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints.
------------------------I am thinking the church is made up of saints

Revelation 13:7
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them.[a] And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,
-----------------------------------Seems the saints (which I think is the church) are going to be in tribulation.
Is there another definition for the Church in the bible some wear maybe??


I do understand that Jews is the freind of the bride groom, so not the church,,
Matthew 9:15

 

[Taken]

marriage of the Lamb---Pre Trib ??
OP^

Pre-Tribulation the Prepared Bride is gathered Up.
Before and During- Tribulation, Many are called, (by Servants of God) to be:
Invited guests at the Wedding.

In Brief:

1) Lord Jesus the Jew, the Lamb of God, the Bridesgroom, paid (2,000 + years ago), the Dowery, (His Blood), FOR His Bride, (His Church), TO the Brides Father (God).
2) His Bride, is Betrothed to Him, by contract, (already considered husband and wife before a wedding ceremony) Bride is Prepared, waiting for the (unknown) day the Bridegroom Calls to escort His Bride up to the Wedding Place.
3) The Wedding takes place in the air/clouds/lower Heavens, before God...(not the Brides home (Earth).
4) The "Invited" guests of the Groom (saints) gather at the Wedding place.

But ... where are the Earthly "guests" ?

Servants (of God the Father) are Sent to Earth, to gather guests For His Sons Wedding.
God (the Father) sends 2 Servants, for 3 1/2 years, then sends 144,000 for 3 1/2 years, Then Sends then one angel for one day).

5) Guests all arrive.
6) SEEN among the guests is an uninvited guest, and ejected.
7) The Wedding Commences.
8) The Bride and Groom spend sometime alone, seeing one another face to face.
9) The Bride and Groom gather with their Guests and FOR 7 days They Feast together, celebrating the Marriage.

* Warriors of God are meantime are removing Evil spirits from the Earth.

* Jesus, the Lamb of God, the Groomsman, with His Power of Christ, Returns to Earth.

10) Thereafter the Groom and His wife and Guests go to the Lords established and Prepared, Kingdom on Earth, ministering (for 1,000 years) to generations of mortals remaining on Earth willing to Hear and Trust the Lords Truth.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

Well, i see the 'rapture' happening when Jesus returns. So if i understand your question then yes, before.


Peace!

first thanks for the reply, second, I see no rapture off the planet into heaven, but at his return there will be a gathering of his elect.

The 'pretenders' will either be converted, or quickly fall away in an attempt to save their lives. I feel for those with young children, it will be a difficult test...

Lord preserve us!

BINGO, I agree, the goats pretending to be sheep.

many will say "Lord, Lord", and he don't know them... Amen

PICJAG

 

[Philip James]

first thanks for the reply, second, I see no rapture off the planet into heaven, but at his return there will be a gathering of his elect.

Indeed.

Getting back to the marriage beginning at the last supper..

Have you read the book of Tobit?
Tobiah is a 'type' of Christ.

He leaves his father and travels to his kinsmens home to take a wife.
The wedding feast begins there. He drives away the demon that jealously guards his bride and consumates the marriage.
The feast continues but Tobiah must leave to return to his father.
He sets out with her, but leaves her and goes on ahead to prepare a place for her in his fathers house.
When she nears the end of her journey tobiah comes to meet her and bring her to his father.
The wedding feast continues in his fathers house...

Peace be with you!

 

[101G]

Indeed.

Getting back to the marriage beginning at the last supper..

Have you read the book of Tobit?
Tobiah is a 'type' of Christ.

He leaves his father and travels to his kinsmens home to take a wife.
The wedding feast begins there. He drives away the demon that jealously guards his bride and consumates the marriage.
The feast continues but Tobiah must leave to return to his father.
He sets out with her, but leaves her and goes on ahead to prepare a place for her in his fathers house.
When she nears the end of her journey tobiah comes to meet her and bring her to his father.
The wedding feast continues in his fathers house...

Peace be with you!

Thank you for the reply, No, I have not read the book. I have it on my bible software program, and look at it only a few times , but many of these lost book don't add up to complete scripture, but since you asked I will look at it again... ok.

again, thanks

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

I cant help but wonder why Pre trib theory says this happens during the tribulation????? why would they start the Marriage of the Lamb before all believers are saved???

The answer is quite simple. It is the Church that is raptured before the Tribulation (when the Holy Spirit is also "taken out of the way"), therefore the Marriage of the Lamb is during the Tribulation, and the Second Coming is after the Tribulation. Therefore the Tribulation saints are resurrected but not raptured.

 

[Dave M]

The answer is quite simple. It is the Church that is raptured before the Tribulation (when the Holy Spirit is also "taken out of the way"), therefore the Marriage of the Lamb is during the Tribulation, and the Second Coming is after the Tribulation. Therefore the Tribulation saints are resurrected but not raptured.

Thank you for your reply,, I do wonder

"who are left" seems to suggest left after the tribulation to me

1 Thessalonians 4:17 …..Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

seems not until the end of tribulation does he gather his elect

Matthew 24:29-31 (NKJV)
29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


and then there are people that are dying during tribulation and comming into the thrown room before God, and yet no mention of the marriage supper, I would think they would be guest at the very least if the supper was going on, but I am just speculating

Whear in scripture does it say the church ends at the rapture???? .

 

[Enoch111]

"who are left" seems to suggest left after the tribulation to me
1 Thessalonians 4:17 …..Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Seems like you have totally misunderstood this passage.

The Resurrection/Rapture is one event completed in nanoseconds, but still accomplished in two phases: (1) first the resurrection of the saints who have passed on and (2) second the rapture of those "who remain" or "who are left" (meaning the living saints on earth at that time.

 

[101G]

The answer is quite simple. It is the Church that is raptured before the Tribulation (when the Holy Spirit is also "taken out of the way"), therefore the Marriage of the Lamb is during the Tribulation, and the Second Coming is after the Tribulation. Therefore the Tribulation saints are resurrected but not raptured.

the Holy Spirit is never taken out of the way, supportive scripture, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever"

well if he abiding in us for ever, then he is not going anywhere. that's scripture.

PICJAG.

 

[Dcopymope]

I cant help but wonder why Pre trib theory says this happens during the tribulation????? why would they start the Marriage of the Lamb before all believers are saved??? We know for a fact there are believers on the earth during the tribulation are they not married to the Lamb also???

any thoughts??

Its because the marriage in fact does not occur before or during tribulation. You see it with your own two eyes in revelation, so you have your answer. Don't let anybody tell you otherwise, just believe the Bible when it plainly states something and it will become a lot easier to understand for you.