Matthew 18:1

[Kabone]

The disciples asked ‘who is the greatest in heaven?’ I find this a very odd question.
I think in Matthew 5 Jesus explained who the greatest and least are. I’m assuming chronologically Matthew 5 occurred before Matthew 18. Was it Jesus who first brought up the existence of a hierarchy in heaven?
It seems the disciples felt it was not enough to be one of the chosen here on earth, but they must maintain that status in heaven.
Is doing the things that will get me into the kingdom of heaven not enough that I should strive instead to be considered the greatest? Maybe it’s just me, but trying to be holier than thou seems a bit prideful.

 

[The Gospel of Christ]

The disciples asked ‘who is the greatest in heaven?’ I find this a very odd question.
I think in Matthew 5 Jesus explained who the greatest and least are. I’m assuming chronologically Matthew 5 occurred before Matthew 18. Was it Jesus who first brought up the existence of a hierarchy in heaven?
It seems the disciples felt it was not enough to be one of the chosen here on earth, but they must maintain that status in heaven.
Is doing the things that will get me into the kingdom of heaven not enough that I should strive instead to be considered the greatest? Maybe it’s just me, but trying to be holier than thou seems a bit prideful.

The disciples’ question reveals a misunderstanding of the Kingdom. Jesus does acknowledge greatness in heaven, but He defines it in radically different terms: humility, not status. In Matthew 18, He answers their ambition by pointing to a child — lowly, dependent, unnoticed — and says that unless they become like that, they won’t enter the Kingdom at all.

So yes, there is “greatness” in the Kingdom, but it’s the opposite of pride. It's not about being holier than others, but about becoming nothing so Christ can be everything. Striving to be great by the world’s standards is condemned; striving to be like Christ — humble, obedient, servant-hearted — is the only greatness Heaven recognizes.

 

[Kabone]

Thank you, good stuff. The scripture seems pretty clear on what it takes to be considered the greatest. Matthew 5:19 states what it takes to be considered the least. What I’m trying to understand is if Jesus described a hierarchy in heaven, then there must be some importance to your status in heaven.

 

[bdavidc]

Thank you, good stuff. The scripture seems pretty clear on what it takes to be considered the greatest. Matthew 5:19 states what it takes to be considered the least. What I’m trying to understand is if Jesus described a hierarchy in heaven, then there must be some importance to your status in heaven.

Your status is significant in heaven, but only because it reveals the way you served Christ on earth. You don’t strive for greatness, but faithfulness, obedience, and humility. The crown, reward, or position you earn will be for His glory, not your own.

It’s not a contest to appear “holier” than others. It’s simply a matter of being faithful with what He entrusted to you.

“Well done, thou good and faithful servant… enter thou into the joy of thy lord” (Matthew 25:21).

That’s the only commendation that will matter in the end. And it’s within reach of every believer who lives by a humble, obedient heart.

 

[Nameaboveallnames]

The disciples asked ‘who is the greatest in heaven?’ I find this a very odd question.

Hi, Kabone.

Actually, that is not what they asked him. Instead, this is what they asked him:

"At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" (Mat. 18:1)

The first thing that we need to understand is that the terms "kingdom of heaven" and "kingdom of God" are used interchangeably in scripture. There are those who falsely claim that Matthew's gospel was written exclusively to the Jews because he allegedly only spoke of "the kingdom of heaven" whereas the other gospel writers spoke of "the kingdom of God." In reality, Matthew spoke of both "the kingdom of heaven" (Mat. 3:2, 4:17, 5:3, 10, 19-20, 7:21, 8:11, 10:7, 11:11-12, 13:11, 24, 31, 33, 44-45, 47, 52, 16:19, 18:1, 3-4, 23, 19:14, 23, 20:1, 22:2, 23:13, 25:1, 14) and "the kingdom of God" (Mat. 6:33, 12:28, 19:24, 21:31, 43), and both terms are referring to the same kingdom.

The next thing that we need to understand is that the disciples thought that the kingdom of God was going to immediately appear in Jerusalem at the time of Jesus' first coming. Pay close attention to why Jesus spoke the following parable.

Luke chapter 19

[11] And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
[12] He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
[13] And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
[14] But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
[15] And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
[16] Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
[17] And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
[18] And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
[19] And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
[20] And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
[21] For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
[22] And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
[23] Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
[24] And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
[25] (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
[26] For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
[27] But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

Jesus spoke this parable "because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear" (vs. 11) there. Jesus needed to explain to them that it was not going to be until "when he was returned" (vs. 15) at the time of his second coming that he was going to "receive the kingdom" (vs. 15). When the kingdom of God comes to this earth at the time of Jesus' second coming, Jesus' disciples will be given authority over cities (vss. 17 and 19), and how much authority they receive will be based upon how they traded with the figurative talents Jesus gave them, while occupying until he comes (vs. 13).

Although he often told his disciples that he was going to be crucified before his kingdom came, his disciples did not believe him. Peter went so far as to rebuke him for even saying so (Mat. 16:21-22). Jesus later went on to say the following to his twelve apostles:

"And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." (Mat. 19:28)

"In the regeneration" or when they are raised from the dead at "the first resurrection" (Rev. 20:5-6), Jesus' twelve apostles (Judas was replaced by Matthias - Acts 1:26) "shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." That will be their reward or their positions in the coming kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God. The rest of us? Our positions will be determined in accordance to what we have done with the figurative talents Jesus has given us. Even though Jesus plainly told his disciples of their positions in the kingdom that was yet to come, they continued to jockey for position in that kingdom (Mat. 20:21, Mark 10:37) as if it was going to immediately appear here on earth.

Anyhow, in context in Matthew 18:1, Jesus' disciples were definitely not thinking about any sort of hierarchy in heaven itself, but rather they were thinking about hierarchy here on earth because that is where they thought the kingdom of heaven was going to immediately be established.

Hopefully, you can see and recognize this. If not, then I will be happy to offer further biblical insight into what I have only begun to share here.

 

[nedsk]

Your status is significant in heaven, but only because it reveals the way you served Christ on earth. You don’t strive for greatness, but faithfulness, obedience, and humility. The crown, reward, or position you earn will be for His glory, not your own.

It’s not a contest to appear “holier” than others. It’s simply a matter of being faithful with what He entrusted to you.

“Well done, thou good and faithful servant… enter thou into the joy of thy lord” (Matthew 25:21).

That’s the only commendation that will matter in the end. And it’s within reach of every believer who lives by a humble, obedient heart.

So "the way you served Christ on earth" isn't necessary to save someone but it is necessary to determine your status in heaven?

 

[lforrest]

So "the way you served Christ on earth" isn't necessary to save someone but it is necessary to determine your status in heaven?

Sounds reasonable. I look at it as what is of a lasting benefit. A kindness may stick with someone their whole life, and beyond into eternity.

 

[nedsk]

Sounds reasonable. I look at it as what is of a lasting benefit. A kindness may stick with someone their whole life, and beyond into eternity.

That makes no sense at all. If you dont serve Christ on earth you dont have to worry about your place in heaven.

 

[lforrest]

That makes no sense at all. If you dont serve Christ on earth you dont have to worry about your place in heaven.

Serving others is serving Christ

 

[Aunty Jane]

Anyhow, in context in Matthew 18:1, Jesus' disciples were definitely not thinking about any sort of hierarchy in heaven itself, but rather they were thinking about hierarchy here on earth because that is where they thought the kingdom of heaven was going to immediately be established.

Excellent points….their expectations were entirely earthly as their question to Jesus as he was ascending to heaven revealed….
Acts 1:6-8….
”So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

They expected the Kingdom to be set up then and there, knowing that Jesus was to be their King….but it was not until Pentecost were they fully informed by the power of God’s spirit that they would be “kings and priests” in a heavenly kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They would receive a different resurrection to that of the general population of whom Jesus spoke in John 5:28-29.
The “first resurrection” was to take place first in time and in importance, because by the time the earth was cleansed of all wickedness and Jesus had established his kingdom over the whole earth, only then would the dead be called out of their graves to a new life, in a world where God’s kingdom would rule, instead of the corrupt kingdoms of man. (Daniel 2:44)

 

[PS95]

Jane, I just noted your signature- I never had that feature turned on before tonight- Yours confuses me. It says-

"What I post are my personal beliefs after many years of Bible study….I love a good Bible discussion. ;)"

So, You are still a JW, right? Does that sig explain your recent born again comment?
How can one be a faithful JW and at the same time post things in opposition? You will be removed if found out. Correct? So what are the posts about unity about? How many alter egos do you have?

 

[nedsk]

Serving others is serving Christ

Correct and necessary for salvation.

 

[Lambano]

I kind of wanted to compare Matthew 18:1-4 with Luke 9:46-48. Same incident, told a slightly different way?

46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48 Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For it is the one who is least among you all who is the greatest.”

"“So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” - Matthew 20:16.

Look around. All groups have a pecking order. All groups have a subtle (and sometimes not-so-subtle) jockeying for position for perks, power, and prestige. The disciples did the same thing, only it's more explicit in the Matthew 20:25-27/Mark10:41-45 incident. I think this is Jesus's way of telling them (and us) to stop being concerned about our own position, our own status.

Is there going to be some kind of hierarchy of status in God's Kingdom? If I were a cynical man, I'd say that there always is. Don't worry about it. Status isn't going to be like it is here and now.

 

[complete]

Excellent points….their expectations were entirely earthly as their question to Jesus as he was ascending to heaven revealed….
Acts 1:6-8….
”So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction. 8 But you will receive power when the holy spirit comes upon you, and you will be witnesses of me in Jerusalem, in all Ju·deʹa and Sa·marʹi·a, and to the most distant part of the earth.”

They expected the Kingdom to be set up then and there, knowing that Jesus was to be their King….but it was not until Pentecost were they fully informed by the power of God’s spirit that they would be “kings and priests” in a heavenly kingdom. (Rev 20:6) They would receive a different resurrection to that of the general population of whom Jesus spoke in John 5:28-29.
The “first resurrection” was to take place first in time and in importance, because by the time the earth was cleansed of all wickedness and Jesus had established his kingdom over the whole earth, only then would the dead be called out of their graves to a new life, in a world where God’s kingdom would rule, instead of the corrupt kingdoms of man. (Daniel 2:44)

'The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus,
of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Until the day in which He was taken up,
after that He through the Holy Ghost
had given commandments unto the apostles whom He had chosen:
To whom also He shewed Himself alive after His passion by many infallible proofs,
being seen of them forty days,
and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:'
(Act 1:1-3)

Hello @Aunty Jane,

With respect, the question asked (Acts 1:6), 'Lord, wilt Thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?' was a perfectly valid one: In the light of the fact that following His resurrection the Lord had spent 40 days teaching His disciples concerning the Kingdom of God: and if the preaching of Peter in Acts 3:19-21 had been heeded, and the people of Israel repented, then the Lord Jesus Christ would have returned, as was promised.

'Repent ye therefore, and be converted,
that your sins may be blotted out,
when the times of refreshing shall come
from the presence of the Lord;
And He shall send Jesus Christ,
which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive
until the times of restitution of all things,
which God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets
since the world began.'
(Act 3:19-21)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[lforrest]

Correct and necessary for salvation.

If works result in salvation even a little then salvation would be earned. However the grace of God is freely given, and in no way earned.

 

[nedsk]

If works result in salvation even a little then salvation would be earned. However the grace of God is freely given, and in no way earned.

Thats incorrect. No one believes works saves them and God offers salvation by his grace but who is saved? James tells us faith is completed by works. If faith was sufficient for salvation it would not need "completion". Its as if you people stop thinking or something one you believe your saved.

 

[lforrest]

Thats incorrect. No one believes works saves them and God offers salvation by his grace but who is saved? James tells us faith is completed by works. If faith was sufficient for salvation it would not need "completion". Its as if you people stop thinking or something one you believe your saved.

I maintain works does not result in salvation. Not even in conjunction with its association with faith. Correlation does not prove causality.

I'm saying faith causes salvation and works. You are saying faith and works cause salvation.

 

[bdavidc]

So "the way you served Christ on earth" isn't necessary to save someone but it is necessary to determine your status in heaven?

That’s a good question and the answer is yes, it really does matter how you serve Christ on this earth. Your reward in heaven will be impacted by whether or not you are faithful in service to Him. It’s true that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works (Ephesians 2:8–9, Titus 3:5). We are saved the moment we repent and trust in Christ, apart from anything we have done or could ever do. But after that, obedience matters. Not for keeping your salvation, but for your reward in heaven. 2 Corinthians 5: 10 tells us that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give account for our works, and 1 Corinthians 3:13–15 tells us that our works will be tested. Some believers will be rewarded and others will suffer loss, yet both will still be saved. So no, works don’t save us but they are still important. We are not saved by good works but we are saved for them (Ephesians 2:10). A life that truly belongs to Christ will shine for Him

 

[nedsk]

I maintain works does not result in salvation. Not even in conjunction with its association with faith. Correlation does not prove causality.

I'm saying faith causes salvation and works. You are saying faith and works cause salvation.

Correct they dont result in salvation by themselves. Then you ignore scripture. Its nothing to do with correlation its "completion" do you not understand the difference?

So once you have faith you no longer possess free will? I am not saying faith and works cause salvation. You people get this knee jerk reaction as soon as you see or hear the word works. Its mind boggling. Scripture not me says faith is completed by works. AGAIN for the 1 millionth time which you people cant or wont understand is if faith was sufficient (do you know what sufficient means?) for salvation it would not need completion. Works do not automatically flow from faith. Works are actions which require a conscious choice of the will just like sin which only comes from a conscious choice of a persons will. You people seem to just stop thinking. Its fascinating to watch.

 

[nedsk]

That’s a good question and the answer is yes, it really does matter how you serve Christ on this earth. Your reward in heaven will be impacted by whether or not you are faithful in service to Him. It’s true that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works (Ephesians 2:8–9, Titus 3:5). We are saved the moment we repent and trust in Christ, apart from anything we have done or could ever do. But after that, obedience matters. Not for keeping your salvation, but for your reward in heaven. 2 Corinthians 5: 10 tells us that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give account for our works, and 1 Corinthians 3:13–15 tells us that our works will be tested. Some believers will be rewarded and others will suffer loss, yet both will still be saved. So no, works don’t save us but they are still important. We are not saved by good works but we are saved for them (Ephesians 2:10). A life that truly belongs to Christ will shine for Him

But faith alone wont do you a bit of good. If faith was sufficient for salvation it wouldnt need completion by works. AGAIN you people see the word works and you go screaming into the night.