Maybe I Am Not Understanding the Post Tribulation Rapture. - Can You Help?

[The Light]

Still, in Post trib the trib is not over in any seal. It happens in the 6th trump and is over when the 7th sounds.

Exactly. And that is the error.

The Word of God says the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The fact that post trib wants to make that the 6th trump does not change the truth.

If you would go by the Word of God, you would draw correct conclusions.

 

[The Light]

Still, in Post trib the trib is not over in any seal. It happens in the 6th trump and is over when the 7th sounds.

Quite frankly, the Word of God says that the tribulation is over at the 6th, as the two scriptures below prove. Your opinion of post trib has nothing to do with when the tribulation is over.

In reality post trib is really post wrath, but most don't understand that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

 

[ewq1938]

Quite frankly, the Word of God says that the tribulation is over at the 6th, as the two scriptures below prove. Your opinion of post trib has nothing to do with when the tribulation is over.

In reality post trib is really post wrath, but most don't understand that the great tribulation is not the wrath of God.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Both are prophecies. Neither are events happening at that time.

 

[The Light]

Both are prophecies. Neither are events happening at that time.

They are prophecies about events that WILL HAPPEN. When that 6th seal is opened the great tribulation will be over. JESUS WILL RETURN. He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.......the 7 trumpets and 7 vials.

You can't say they are prophecies, and act like the prophecy is never going to happen.

 

[rockytopva]

None of us know the hour in which the Lord comes back for his church. So we are commanded to watch daily for it...

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.

37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. - Mark 13

 

[ewq1938]

They are prophecies about events that WILL HAPPEN. When that 6th seal is opened the great tribulation will be over. JESUS WILL RETURN. He will send His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. Then the 7th seal is opened and the wrath of God begins.......the 7 trumpets and 7 vials.

You can't say they are prophecies, and act like the prophecy is never going to happen.

I already told you when they happen.

 

[The Light]

I already told you when they happen.

You are just pulling something out of the air that is not supported by scripture.

The Word of God says that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. That's the end of the story.

You don't understand how to make a timeline work using factual information provided by the Word of God. You are just dreaming something up to make your timeline work. The fact is it doesn't.

 

[The Light]

As any... honest person can easily see The Light's 'intentional' rejection... of the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture by Lord Jesus Christ, that is because of one of the following possibilities...

1. The Light is determined to put Faith in man's false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture which goes directly opposite of what Jesus said there that His coming to gather His saints will be AFTER... the tribulation.

2. Or The Light has 'another spirit' that he/she is listening to, and that spirit is not from God.

3. Or The Light is a disguised Unbeliever come here to spread confusion and lies among the body of Christ.

Always the same isn't it Little @Davy. RUN DAVY RUN. You start your personal attacks because you can't answer the questions that I ask.

There is nothing you can do because you have no answers. The things you spout can easily be proven wrong. This is why I wonder why you would believe something you can't support with scripture.

So RUN DAVY RUN. Run back to the kiddie pool where the blind lead the blind. I hear them calling for you. MARCO....................POLO. SWIM DAVY SWIM.

 

[Zao is life]

Both are prophecies. Neither are events happening at that time.

Indeed the seals are not the events written in the scroll - but neither are the seals prophecies. (No one ever sealed a blank scroll). The seals unveil what is written in the scroll:

Revelation 5
1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book (scroll) written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

The loosening of the 7th seal opens the book (causes the scroll to unroll).

The seals are unveilings (revelations) that unveil events that were previously hidden to the understanding of the churches of Jesus Christ.

Jesus unveils them. That's why it's called "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" (Rev 1:1);

and THE WAY IT'S WRITTEN,

The 6th seal is followed by the 7th seal (and the unrolling of the scroll).

The 6th bowl is followed by the 7th bowl (wrath).

The 6th trumpet is followed by the 7th trumpet.

666 | Armageddon |

6th TRUMPET - THE SECOND "WOE" KEY SYMBOLS:

EUPHRATES - THE TIMING:

I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

(Timing): And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year. (Revelation 9:13-15).

FIRE, SMOKE, AND BRIMSTONE: And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions;

MOUTHS: and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.

By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued OUT OF THEIR MOUTHS. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. (Revelation 9:17-19).

6TH BOWL OF WRATH (Chapter 16) KEY SYMBOLS:

EUPHRATES: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

MOUTHS: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

Compare Jesus's interjection in the middle of the 6th bowl of wrath with the loosening of the 6th seal:

--- Behold, I come as a thief.
Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments,
lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. ---​

And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon." (Revelation 16:13-16).

The unveiling that John saw when the 6th seal was loosened implies that the above comes at the close of a period of great tribulation that will be experienced by the saints (Christians) at the hand of the beast - in Revelation 19:14 the martyred saints who had been resurrected from the dead are seen returning with Christ for the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 19:11-21).

6th seal:

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath has come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Copy @The Light

Copy @Spiritual Israelite - Neither Paul nor the Revelation first say that we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air,

and then add "and be gathered in heaven" - that's your own adding to what is written.

What is written is that Jesus will be seen coming in the clouds of heaven and will send out His angels to gather His elect (Matthew 24:29-31) and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess 4:13-18). After this He comes down WITH HIS SAINTS (Revelation 19:11-21) for the defeat of the beast and false prophet at the time of the battle of that Great Day - Armageddon. After this Jesus will make all things new:

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is the one who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame.
--- And he gathered them into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air. ---
And a great voice came out of the temple of Heaven, from the throne, saying,

--- It is done! "---
(Revelation 16:15-17)

"And He sitting on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And He said to me, Write, for these words are true and faithful. And He said to me,

--- It is done ---.

I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely. He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.

Jesus began the unveiling by making seven promises to those who overcome (one to each of His churches).

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The souls will be brought when Jesus comes for the dead in Christ.

What is your answer to my question then? Yes or no? I asked: Do you not believe that the souls of the elect dead in Christ will be gathered in heaven when Jesus comes to meet us "in the air"? In other words, when the souls of the dead in Christ come with Jesus do you believe that they will first be gathered in heaven?

I think that when Jesus returns for the alive that remain, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him who will already have new bodies.

You think wrong. Paul taught that the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain until the second coming of Christ will be caught up from the earth together to meet the Lord in the air. You have them being caught up at two different times which blatantly contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.

If I'm not mistaken you think that this event occurs at the end of the trumpets and vials............or depending on your understanding, at least at the end of the vials. (If I am wrong about this clue me in)

I have told you many times that I see the seals, trumpets and vials as being parallel, so I see His second coming (His one and only future time descending from heaven) as occurring at the 7th seal, trumpet and vial.

I think that Jesus comes for the dead in Christ before the seals are opened.

Again, you think wrong. Very wrong. Why would He come for the dead in Christ before the seals are opened? That makes no sense whatsoever. Scripture teaches that He is coming from heaven one time in the future, so when He comes for the dead in Christ, that's it. He's not coming again. So, He's coming at the 7th seal, not before the first seal.

Additionally, I think He returns for the alive that remained before the seals are opened.

He will come from heaven once in the future, not twice. Why would He come more than once? There's no reason for that and scripture doesn't teach that.

The gathering from heaven and earth occurs at the 6th seal as it is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. This is when the Church is gathered from heaven and those of the 12 tribes across the earth that become Christians after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in are gathered from the earth.

I think you think that this occurs at the last trumpet or vial.

No one will become a Christian after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. It will be too late at that point because that is when Jesus will return and He will take vengeance on all unbelievers at that point (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). The time for repentance will be over.

 

[ewq1938]

You are just pulling something out of the air that is not supported by scripture.

The Word of God says that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. That's the end of the story.

You don't understand how to make a timeline work using factual information provided by the Word of God. You are just dreaming something up to make your timeline work. The fact is it doesn't.

Actually that is exactly what you have done so I would advise that you read your own critiques and apply them to yourself.

 

[Taken]

Maybe I Am Not Understanding the Post Tribulation Rapture. - Can You Help?

No such thing as a POST Trib Rapture.

The Rapture is the Raising Up (to the clouds) of Christs Church; BEFORE the Trib…
men MADE … (BEFORE the Trib…)
* New Creatures
* With Restored (Saved) souls
* With Quickened (Born Again) spirits

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[The Light]

Actually that is exactly what you have done so I would advise that you read your own critiques and apply them to yourself.

My critiques show that the tribulation ends at the 6th seal according to the Word of God. No need to dream anything up to make a timeline work as that is fruitless.

 

[ewq1938]

My critiques show that the tribulation ends at the 6th seal according to the Word of God. No need to dream anything up to make a timeline work as that is fruitless.

The bible shows the trib ends at the 7th trump, not any seals. The 6th seal speaks of 7th trump events BEFORE any trumps have sounded.

 

[The Light]

What is your answer to my question then? Yes or no? I asked: Do you not believe that the souls of the elect dead in Christ will be gathered in heaven when Jesus comes to meet us "in the air"? In other words, when the souls of the dead in Christ come with Jesus do you believe that they will first be gathered in heaven?

When Jesus comes for the dead in Christ, He will bring the souls with Him. They get new bodies and return to heaven. The alive Church remains. Then when Jesus returns for the alive that remained, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

You think wrong. Paul taught that the dead in Christ and those who are alive and remain until the second coming of Christ will be caught up from the earth together to meet the Lord in the air. You have them being caught up at two different times which blatantly contradicts what Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.

There is no chance that I am contradicting Paul. The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain. When Jesus returns for the alive that remain He will bring the dead with Him..............Just as the Word of God says. Not a single contradiction.

At Pentecost the barley and wheat cakes are presented by the priest. This is the time of the barley harvest. However, wheat is not harvested, (other than first fruits) until summer. That is why the alive remain.

Neither of these are the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. The second coming occurs at the 6th seal.

I have told you many times that I see the seals, trumpets and vials as being parallel, so I see His second coming (His one and only future time descending from heaven) as occurring at the 7th seal, trumpet and vial.

Of course, this would be incorrect and totally illogical. According to scripture the 6th seal is complete before the 7th seal is opened. Therefore, your line of thought that the 6th seal and the trumpets and vials of the 7th seal is impossible.

You need to rethink this.

Again, you think wrong. Very wrong. Why would He come for the dead in Christ before the seals are opened?

Because the Word of God says He does.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Scripture teaches that He is coming from heaven one time in the future, so when He comes for the dead in Christ, that's it. He's not coming again. So, He's coming at the 7th seal, not before the first seal.

There is nothing in scripture that says that He only comes one time. There are two folds. The first fold is the Church. The second fold is the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth. The last shall be first and the first shall be last.

He will come from heaven once in the future, not twice. Why would He come more than once? There's no reason for that and scripture doesn't teach that.

He comes for the dead in Christ first. He returns for the alive that remain. This is the barley and wheat harvest and is the Church. Then He returns for the second fold of which the 144,000 are first fruits. Then He returns at Armageddon with the armies of heaven.

No one will become a Christian after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

The Church is raptured before the seals are opened. It is the 12 tribes that have their blindness removed that are the second. The Lord comes for the second fold at the 6th seal as seen in Matthew 24:29-31.

It will be too late at that point because that is when Jesus will return and He will take vengeance on all unbelievers at that point (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9). The time for repentance will be over.

Vengeance occurs at the 7th seal. The Church is in heaven before the seals are opened. At the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal, the Church is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes across the earth are gathered from the earth.

The woman, those that flee to a place of protection remain on the earth during the ONE YEAR wrath of God. During that year, the marriage supper of the Lamb occurs.

 

[The Light]

The bible shows the trib ends at the 7th trump, not any seals.

With SIMPLE deductive reasoning you should be able to conclude that the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. If you are unable to do this, find a 7th to 9th grader to assist. I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The 6th seal speaks of 7th trump events BEFORE any trumps have sounded.

So you are still confused about....wrath is come? All the events of the 6th seal are complete before the 7th seal is opened. Six complete, then 7 is opened.

 

[ewq1938]

If you are unable to do this, find a 7th to 9th grader to assist.

The use of insults is a sign of a weakness of position.

 

[The Light]

The use of insults is a sign of a weakness of position.

I can't make it any simpler. If you don't understand what I posted, I am giving you solid advice.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When Jesus comes for the dead in Christ, He will bring the souls with Him. They get new bodies and return to heaven. The alive Church remains. Then when Jesus returns for the alive that remained, He will bring the dead in Christ with Him.

Was my question too difficult? When Jesus brings the souls of the dead in Christ with Him, do you believe they will be first gathered in heaven and then go with Him from heaven?

There is no chance that I am contradicting Paul.

There is a 100% chance that you are contradicting Paul. It's likely that no one else in the world shares your particular interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17.

The dead in Christ rise first. The alive remain.

It does NOT say "the alive remain"! You are blatantly twisting the text to fit your lone wolf view. It says the dead in Christ rise first, which means they are first bodily resurrected and then it says they, together with those who are alive and remain until the coming of Christ, are caught up TOGETHER at the SAME TIME to meet Christ in the air. Your interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 is utterly ridiculous.

 

[ewq1938]

I can't make it any simpler. If you don't understand what I posted, I am giving you solid advice.

Anyone can and does understand your point but ppl like myself believe you are misunderstanding what the seals are about. They are not events happening but visions of the future shown to John. That's why Christ opens all of the seals in a short time period, never leaving heaven to take part in their events like the 6th seal where Jesus does not return when he opens the seal.