Melchisedec and How Jesus Learned Obedience and was Made Perfect.

[dev553344]

Yes in the resurrection and eternal future, when they come to the Father through the Son.

Not yet. Not doubting your vision, but you didn't see God. And if the vision did not teach faith and obedience to Christ according to the Scriptures, then it was a false one.

And if your vision was inspiring to the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ, then it doesn't matter if anyone believes you or not.

Anything not according to Scripture is false, whether by word, letter, or spirit.

You don't want to get caught up in angel worship like them of Mary, always looking for signs in the cloud, trees, statues, or Texas gas toilets.

There is another person that saw the same thing I saw. It is in 2 Enoch of the dead sea scrolls:2 Enoch 22:1-4

2 Enoch 22:1-4
Jewish Mysticism
And on the 10th heaven, Aravoth, I saw the view of the face of the Lord, like iron made burning hot in a fire and brought out, and it emits sparks and is incandescent. Thus even I saw the face of the Lord. But the face of the Lord is not to be talked about, it is so very marvelous and supremely awesome and supremely frightening. And who am I to give an account of the incomprehensible being of the Lord, and of his face, so extremely strange and indescribable?… Who can give an account of his beautiful appearance, never changing and indescribable, and his great glory? And I feel down flat and did obeisance to the Lord.

 

[Stumpmaster]

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ was name Melchisedec while in human form.

He first appeared to bless Abram after the slaughter of the kings.

Abraham knew it was the Lord, when He came with two others to spy out Sodom. How did He know? Because he had seen Him before after the slaughter of the kings.

Jacob did not know who He was that he wrestled with, because he had not seen Him as His father Abraham had: Melchisedec.

When the God of Israel was become flesh, then He was no longer called Melchisedec but Jesus, who is made after the days of His flesh Melchisedec in heaven, an high priest forever after His order.

Melchisedec wrestled with Jacob, that he might bless him. Christ wrestled with Jacob, to teach him the fear of the Lord: to know that it is not by might, nor by power nor by will of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord, that we have power with God.

Jacob learned in a no-win wrestling match with the Lord in form of man, that there was someone he could not outwit, out-play, nor over-power by the flesh, and so he was named Israel, having power with God to prevail. Not to prevail over the Lord, but to learn to prevail over himself, and to trust only in the Lord by faith.

When Melchisedec became flesh, to be a man made of a woman, He also learned obedience, as did Jacob, in a no-win wrestling match with the Father, who would never consent to disannulling His commandment to His Son to lay down His life for man on the cross.

Jesus as a man, made of flesh according to the seed of David, learned the same obedience as Jacob in that night in Gethsemane: though the infirmity of flesh is weak, yet the spirit is willing, therefore we are to follow after the Spirit in obedience to God, and not give in to the weakness of the flesh.

Melchisedec in the form of a man, later named Jesus in the flesh, learned the obedience of Jacob, which opportunity was provided to him by wrestling all the night through: There is no overcoming God, as Adam might have supposed, but in Christ there is only overcoming our own flesh in obedience to the Father, which we have by the faith of Jesus, the Son of God, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec, being made perfect through the things which He suffered, and so became the Author of eternal salvation for all them that learn to obey Him, even as He learned to obey the Father, despite the weak infirmity of His flesh.

The lesson Jesus learned in the garden, was the lesson He taught as Melchisedec to Jacob on the plain of Mahanaim:

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God is not looking for the mighty in knowledge and skill, nor to them in understanding of all mysteries, but only to them that will purify their hearts, even as He is pure, by the same faith of obedience of Jesus unto the cross,and so be counted worthy to inhabit immortality in spiritual bodies.

We are the children of Abraham by the faith of Jesus in the heart, and we are the children of Israel by obeying Him from the heart.

Only them that learn obedience to the faith, as did Jacob all night long, and as did Jesus in the night, will inherit eternal salvation in the resurrection of the church unto eternal life. without shame.

Simply put, the things that Jesus agreed to suffer on earth whilst in human form taught Him through experience that obedience to God is painful, and deadly, but ultimately eternally fruitful.

Heb 5:6-10 As He also says in another place: "YOU ARE A PRIEST FOREVER ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK"; (7) who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, (8) though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. (9) And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, (10) called by God as High Priest "ACCORDING TO THE ORDER OF MELCHIZEDEK,"

 

[DuckieLady]

There is another person that saw the same thing I saw. It is in 2 Enoch of the dead sea scrolls:2 Enoch 22:1-4

2 Enoch 22:1-4
Jewish Mysticism
And on the 10th heaven, Aravoth, I saw the view of the face of the Lord, like iron made burning hot in a fire and brought out, and it emits sparks and is incandescent. Thus even I saw the face of the Lord. But the face of the Lord is not to be talked about, it is so very marvelous and supremely awesome and supremely frightening. And who am I to give an account of the incomprehensible being of the Lord, and of his face, so extremely strange and indescribable?… Who can give an account of his beautiful appearance, never changing and indescribable, and his great glory? And I feel down flat and did obeisance to the Lord.

There are books mentioned in the Bible that we don't have in the Bible. The Book of the Wars of the Lord, Gad the Seer and so on.

I don't know about Enoch yet, haven't studied much on it, but I'm not afraid of Jewish history and old writings to give me a better and broader understanding of the whole Bible.


"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

John 4:22-24 (JESUS SAID THAT.)

 

[dev553344]

There are books mentioned in the Bible that we don't have in the Bible. The Book of the Wars of the Lord, Gad the Seer and so on.

I don't know about Enoch yet, haven't studied much on it, but I'm not afraid of Jewish history and old writings to give me a better and broader understanding of the whole Bible.


"You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

John 4:22-24 (JESUS SAID THAT.)

I glanced thru some of Enoch but haven't read the whole thing yet. I don't read much anymore as it gives me headaches to read too much. I have to take in little bits at a time.

 

[DuckieLady]

I glanced thru some of Enoch but haven't read the whole thing yet. I don't read much anymore as it gives me headaches to read too much. I have to take in little bits at a time.

If I remember correctly and I haven't taken time to confirm it, Enoch was supposed to be a fictional masterpiece inspired by the real Book of Enoch and was found in Africa in the 1700s, but the real book was lost.

But everyone should look for themselves. I could be wrong.

 

[dev553344]

If I remember correctly and I haven't taken time to confirm it, Enoch was supposed to be a fictional masterpiece inspired by the real Book of Enoch and was found in Africa in the 1700s, but the real book was lost.

But everyone should look for themselves. I could be wrong.

It is in the section of the dead sea scrolls on some websites so I supposed it was found there: The Book of Enoch, Section I

Book of Enoch - Wikipedia

Various Aramaic fragments found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as Koine Greek and Latin fragments, are proof that the Book of Enoch was known by Jews and early Near Eastern Christians. This book was also quoted by some 1st and 2nd century authors as in the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. Authors of the New Testament were also familiar with some content of the story.[4] A short section of 1 Enoch (1:9) is cited in the New Testament Epistle of Jude, Jude 1:14–15, and is attributed there to "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" (1 Enoch 60:8), although this section of 1 Enoch is a midrash on Deuteronomy 33:2. Several copies of the earlier sections of 1 Enoch were preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

 

[post]

not robbery for the elect to be equal with the Son of God,

the verse you quoted says very clearly that Christ is equal to God.
not that we are equal to Him.

 

[DuckieLady]

It is in the section of the dead sea scrolls on some websites so I supposed it was found there: The Book of Enoch, Section I

Book of Enoch - Wikipedia

Various Aramaic fragments found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as well as Koine Greek and Latin fragments, are proof that the Book of Enoch was known by Jews and early Near Eastern Christians. This book was also quoted by some 1st and 2nd century authors as in the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs. Authors of the New Testament were also familiar with some content of the story.[4] A short section of 1 Enoch (1:9) is cited in the New Testament Epistle of Jude, Jude 1:14–15, and is attributed there to "Enoch the Seventh from Adam" (1 Enoch 60:8), although this section of 1 Enoch is a midrash on Deuteronomy 33:2. Several copies of the earlier sections of 1 Enoch were preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls.

this is cool, i am going to take a better look when my phone decides to work again. thanks!

 

[dev553344]

this is cool, i am going to take a better look when my phone decides to work again. thanks!

No prob. It interested me only when I found out that they found portions of Enoch in the dead sea scrolls. I think people thought it was fraudulent up until then.

 

[dev553344]

@FluffyYellowDuck If I remember right, they wouldn't release what they found in the dead sea scrolls for some time. I'm not sure why. But they found several manuscripts:

Dead Sea Scrolls - Wikipedia

Owing to the poor condition of some of the scrolls, scholars have not identified all of their texts. The identified texts fall into three general groups:

1. About 40% are copies of texts from the Hebrew Scriptures.
2. Approximately another 30% are texts from the Second Temple period which ultimately were not canonized in the Hebrew Bible, like the Book of Enoch, the Book of Jubilees, the Book of Tobit, the Wisdom of Sirach, Psalms 152–155, etc.
3. The remainder (roughly 30%) are sectarian manuscripts of previously unknown documents that shed light on the rules and beliefs of a particular group (sect) or groups within greater Judaism, like the Community Rule, the War Scroll, the Pesher on Habakkuk, and The Rule of the Blessing.

 

[robert derrick]

the verse you quoted says very clearly that Christ is equal to God.
not that we are equal to Him.

Not if you don't want to be.

The elect saints are born of Him, having the same Spirit as Him, born of His seed, which is the same nature of Him that sits upon the throne, and therefore they have the same power and promises as Him.

How else do they walk in His steps except to be equal with Him in obedience to him.

It is more fruitful to consider being like Him, being tempted in all points yet without sin, rather than reasons to not be equal to Him:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

At all times. Not just part of the time. Them having part in the first resurrection will not be the part-timers in Christ.

The double minded mentality is a drawing back from knowing we ought to live as He, yet we can't live as He. We are commanded to do, what we cannot do: to love God with all the heart at all times in the body.

It really is simple: purify our hearts of all lust, cleanse our minds of all thought for sin, and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The ongoing war of the overcomer is not to give place to the devil, neither in the mind, nor the heart, nor the body.

Perfect peace hath He whose mind is stayed on the offensive against the fiery darts of the wicked.

There are professionals of every sort who do so for an incorruptible crown. The elect saints do so for an incorruptible.

 

[farouk]

If I remember correctly and I haven't taken time to confirm it, Enoch was supposed to be a fictional masterpiece inspired by the real Book of Enoch and was found in Africa in the 1700s, but the real book was lost.

But everyone should look for themselves. I could be wrong.

@FluffyYellowDuck Something like that in a measure, but the other way round; Enoch was the real person, while the Book of Enoch is Apochrypal...

 

[robert derrick]

There is another person that saw the same thing I saw. It is in 2 Enoch of the dead sea scrolls:2 Enoch 22:1-4

2 Enoch 22:1-4
Jewish Mysticism
And on the 10th heaven, Aravoth, I saw the view of the face of the Lord, like iron made burning hot in a fire and brought out, and it emits sparks and is incandescent. Thus even I saw the face of the Lord. But the face of the Lord is not to be talked about, it is so very marvelous and supremely awesome and supremely frightening. And who am I to give an account of the incomprehensible being of the Lord, and of his face, so extremely strange and indescribable?… Who can give an account of his beautiful appearance, never changing and indescribable, and his great glory? And I feel down flat and did obeisance to the Lord.

And I fell down flat and did obeisance to the Lord.

I.e. a cheap imitation of Daniel and John who fell down as dead before the Lord.

All such books of Apocrypha are written by believers in the Scriptures of the prophets, who tried to write like them, but were not chosen to write Scripture as them.

They can be interesting to the intellect, but they add nothing to the Scripture of truth, other than perhaps false doctrine.

It is more profitable to the soul to read the few verses of Obadiah and Jude than all the book of the Apocrypha, which are only an interesting distraction.

Not to be bursting any bubbles, but if anyone thinks they have some special insight to the things of God by a vision, then they are mistaking the purpose of the vision.

The fact is that them who are strong in the word of faith don't need visions and appearances to convince them God is true, and to show them the Word of truth:

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Revelations of the truth of Scripture and the doctrine of Christ, while having coffee in the morning, are far more important and wonderful to me than any 'vision' from heaven. Visions reach the mind, but revelations of truth go all the way to the soul.

 

[post]

Not if you don't want to be.

The elect saints are born of Him, having the same Spirit as Him, born of His seed, which is the same nature of Him that sits upon the throne, and therefore they have the same power and promises as Him.

How else do they walk in His steps except to be equal with Him in obedience to him.

It is more fruitful to consider being like Him, being tempted in all points yet without sin, rather than reasons to not be equal to Him:

Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

At all times. Not just part of the time. Them having part in the first resurrection will not be the part-timers in Christ.

The double minded mentality is a drawing back from knowing we ought to live as He, yet we can't live as He. We are commanded to do, what we cannot do: to love God with all the heart at all times in the body.

It really is simple: purify our hearts of all lust, cleanse our minds of all thought for sin, and not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

The ongoing war of the overcomer is not to give place to the devil, neither in the mind, nor the heart, nor the body.

Perfect peace hath He whose mind is stayed on the offensive against the fiery darts of the wicked.

There are professionals of every sort who do so for an incorruptible crown. The elect saints do so for an incorruptible.

Christ is God.

 

[dev553344]

And I fell down flat and did obeisance to the Lord.

I.e. a cheap imitation of Daniel and John who fell down as dead before the Lord.

All such books of Apocrypha are written by believers in the Scriptures of the prophets, who tried to write like them, but were not chosen to write Scripture as them.

They can be interesting to the intellect, but they add nothing to the Scripture of truth, other than perhaps false doctrine.

It is more profitable to the soul to read the few verses of Obadiah and Jude than all the book of the Apocrypha, which are only an interesting distraction.

Not to be bursting any bubbles, but if anyone thinks they have some special insight to the things of God by a vision, then they are mistaking the purpose of the vision.

The fact is that them who are strong in the word of faith don't need visions and appearances to convince them God is true, and to show them the Word of truth:

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Revelations of the truth of Scripture and the doctrine of Christ, while having coffee in the morning, are far more important and wonderful to me than any 'vision' from heaven. Visions reach the mind, but revelations of truth go all the way to the soul.

There are plenty of Scripture that points out that people saw God. Old testament and new, including Adam and Eve, Moses, etc, the Holy Ghost in form of a dove descending upon Christ during his baptism.

The fact is that in the fall we are separated from God. But Christ makes it possible for us to be with God again. And now that the atonement was made there is no reason we can't see God. Which is why the scripture you quoted that says no one has seen God is there. It's past tense.

Again Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

 

[robert derrick]

View attachment 19307


Christ is God.

And His brethren are the sons of God living righteously and unblameably in Him from a pure heart, even as the Son is pure and righteous: Even as He is Being pure and righteous, Being God now.

Christ is God is a good confession of the mouth, obeying Christ as God, even as Christ obeyed the Father is God, is the good confession of obedience to Him in all things.

Are you not obey the Son, even as the Son obeyed the Father?

 

[robert derrick]

Only them knowing they are disobedient to God in sins of the flesh, avoid and reject the call to be saints in obedience to the faith of Jesus in all things.

If we as sons are not being righteous and pure as He is being righteous and pure, then our faith is dead, being alone.

There are no good works of faith along with sinful works of unrighteousness, and all unrighteousness is ins, even as all sin is transgression of the law of Christ.

The new creature does not begin, until the old man is dead. The good work of salvation is not working in us to do His will, until we have repented of all dead works of the flesh, have crucified the old man with his deeds, have been circumcised from the sins of the flesh:

Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.

If we say we are crucified and buried with Him and are risen a new creature, and yet continue in the sins unrighteousness of old, then we lie to ourselves and to one another: there is no new creature in Christ with the old man of sin. There is no communion with Christ and Belial. There is no doing good and evil.

Even as He obeyed the Father through the fear of the Lord in all things, so are we called to do the same: there is no acceptable partial obedience of the sons of God to the Son of God, even as there was no partial obedience of the Son accepted of the Father.

There are no good works with God with sinful deeds of the body continuing: those are the filthy rags of our own righteousness, of our own standard of morality, which is humanism, not Christian new beginning in all things:

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God.

If we are not obeying the first great commandment to love God with all the heart, mind, and strength, then we are not loving God and are not being saved. Loving God is obeying God in all things.

He is either Lord of all, or not at all. Even as He obeyed all and gave all on the cross as the forerunner and example of the faith, then so are we who profess faith and godliness to be doers of the Word and not hearers only, nor doers in part.

The double minded are not being saved unto eternal life, so that we must purify their hearts and repent of all sins to obey Him in all things, else we will be judged with the sinners and the adulterers, and appointed to the wrath of hypocrites.

There are the obedient and there are the disobedient: disobedience in one point is disobedience in all points of the law of Christ.

The disobedient are not being saved unto eternal salvation, which is only for them that obey Him with all the heart, mind, and strength.

Sins of the flesh committed by the body is not obedience to God from all the heart.

We want to be raised like Him, we must live like Him, and if we say that is impossible, then we reject the grace, the faith, and the blood of Him as power to do so.

Them that promise liberty of the saints in Christ, while yet unrepented of sins in the body, are teaching wretched bondage of double mindedness, turning the grace of the Lord into lasciviousness, which is license to sin.

 

[post]

View attachment 19307


Christ is God.

Christ pre-existed His human form in the exact form of God.
He did not consider retaining the form of God something to be clung to
He humbled Himself, taking the form of a servant. the form of mankind.

did you pre-exist your earthly life in the form of God, @robert derrick ?
did you set aside your glory to become human?

And His brethren are the sons of God living righteously and unblameably in Him from a pure heart, even as the Son is pure and righteous: Even as He is Being pure and righteous, Being God now.

Christ is God is a good confession of the mouth, obeying Christ as God, even as Christ obeyed the Father is God, is the good confession of obedience to Him in all things.

Are you not obey the Son, even as the Son obeyed the Father?

this isn't a matter of whether i strive to do what is right.
i am wondering whether God is pleased with people who say "i will be like the Most High"

 

[Pierac]

So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ was name Melchisedec while in human form.

He first appeared to bless Abram after the slaughter of the kings.

Abraham knew it was the Lord, when He came with two others to spy out Sodom. How did He know? Because he had seen Him before after the slaughter of the kings.

Jacob did not know who He was that he wrestled with, because he had not seen Him as His father Abraham had: Melchisedec.

When the God of Israel was become flesh, then He was no longer called Melchisedec but Jesus, who is made after the days of His flesh Melchisedec in heaven, an high priest forever after His order.

Melchisedec wrestled with Jacob, that he might bless him. Christ wrestled with Jacob, to teach him the fear of the Lord: to know that it is not by might, nor by power nor by will of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord, that we have power with God.

Jacob learned in a no-win wrestling match with the Lord in form of man, that there was someone he could not outwit, out-play, nor over-power by the flesh, and so he was named Israel, having power with God to prevail. Not to prevail over the Lord, but to learn to prevail over himself, and to trust only in the Lord by faith.

When Melchisedec became flesh, to be a man made of a woman, He also learned obedience, as did Jacob, in a no-win wrestling match with the Father, who would never consent to disannulling His commandment to His Son to lay down His life for man on the cross.

Jesus as a man, made of flesh according to the seed of David, learned the same obedience as Jacob in that night in Gethsemane: though the infirmity of flesh is weak, yet the spirit is willing, therefore we are to follow after the Spirit in obedience to God, and not give in to the weakness of the flesh.

Melchisedec in the form of a man, later named Jesus in the flesh, learned the obedience of Jacob, which opportunity was provided to him by wrestling all the night through: There is no overcoming God, as Adam might have supposed, but in Christ there is only overcoming our own flesh in obedience to the Father, which we have by the faith of Jesus, the Son of God, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec, being made perfect through the things which He suffered, and so became the Author of eternal salvation for all them that learn to obey Him, even as He learned to obey the Father, despite the weak infirmity of His flesh.

The lesson Jesus learned in the garden, was the lesson He taught as Melchisedec to Jacob on the plain of Mahanaim:

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God is not looking for the mighty in knowledge and skill, nor to them in understanding of all mysteries, but only to them that will purify their hearts, even as He is pure, by the same faith of obedience of Jesus unto the cross,and so be counted worthy to inhabit immortality in spiritual bodies.

We are the children of Abraham by the faith of Jesus in the heart, and we are the children of Israel by obeying Him from the heart.

Only them that learn obedience to the faith, as did Jacob all night long, and as did Jesus in the night, will inherit eternal salvation in the resurrection of the church unto eternal life. without shame.

Where did you get this stuff?

Chirst is not a person it's a title. Jesus is the Christ. The Messiah... same word as Christ!

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament... Paul teaches you this fact in the first chapter of Hebrews...
Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Even the Law was given to Man by..... Read it...

Act 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it."

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,

Melchisedec wrestled with Jacob??? I think not!
Jacob wrestled with “a man” until dawn, but he says he had “seen God face to face” (Gen 32:24-30). So was at this time when God appear to Jacob as a man? Not at all according to Hosea 12:3-4 which says, “As a man he [Jacob] struggled with God; he struggled with “the angel” and overcame him. So the one who is called both “a man” and “God” in Genesis is identified as an angel in Hosea. This is a perfect example of Jewish agency where the agent is considered as the principal.

Hope this helps with your Biblical understanding...
Peace,
Paul

 

[robert derrick]

Where did you get this stuff?

Chirst is not a person it's a title. Jesus is the Christ. The Messiah... same word as Christ!

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament... Paul teaches you this fact in the first chapter of Hebrews...
Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Even the Law was given to Man by..... Read it...

Act 7:53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it."

Gal 3:19 Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made.

Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken through angels proved unalterable, and every transgression and disobedience received a just penalty,

Melchisedec wrestled with Jacob??? I think not!
Jacob wrestled with “a man” until dawn, but he says he had “seen God face to face” (Gen 32:24-30). So was at this time when God appear to Jacob as a man? Not at all according to Hosea 12:3-4 which says, “As a man he [Jacob] struggled with God; he struggled with “the angel” and overcame him. So the one who is called both “a man” and “God” in Genesis is identified as an angel in Hosea. This is a perfect example of Jewish agency where the agent is considered as the principal.

Hope this helps with your Biblical understanding...
Peace,
Paul

Where did you get this stuff?

From the Scriptures and reasoning I offered.

Chirst is not a person it's a title.

Christ is not an 'it'. He never has been an 'it'.

So the one who is called both “a man” and “God” in Genesis is identified as an angel in Hosea.

If you wanted to connect the dots with Hebrews 5, as I did, then you could see Christ as Melchisedec in human form, both when collecting tithe of Abraham and when promising him a son within a year.

You choose not to. I do.

This is a perfect example of Jewish agency where the agent is considered as the principal.

Maybe you choose not to, because you read Scriptures with the Jewish eyes. I'm Christian, not Jewish. I read the oracles of God as being in the hands of Christians now, not unbelieving Jews.

I really don 't care much about cultures of man, when it comes to Scriptures of God.

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

That's because the God of Abraham wasn't called Jesus, until He was made flesh.

Christ, the Word, however did all things from the beginning of creation, as well as made with Abraham personally, and also with his natural seed at the mount:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Once you've consider all Scriptures, other than the ones you think you know about, then you can try reading the original post again.

Until then, I can't help you with Scriptural understanding.

Hope this helps with your Biblical understanding...

Not with biblical, but it is always interesting to read new ways to err in the Scriptures, especially when being read as Jewish stuff.

So, thanks for that much at least.