Melchisedec and How Jesus Learned Obedience and was Made Perfect.

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robert derrick

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lol
I person only needs 5to learn obedience when they are disobedient.

Christ never sinned a day in his life. Because he KNEW how to be obedient. He NEVER sought to serve self. He NEVER put his needs own others, and he NEVER took his eye off what is important. To love others.

Jesus was born able to love. We can’t love, because we are born lost. In the flesh having to do whatever we can do fill the hole left by the fall. Jesus had his fathers love from birth. So had had the ability to love

We can’t love UNTIL we are first loved by him (through salvation) so we have no capacity to be obedient servants.

Anyone can obey a command, But only those born of God can be obedient.

You need to take your focus off self man, and put it n Christ. And stop blaming people who put their focus on christ for making you look bad because you refuse to acknowledge your sin, while they in humility look up to God in faith and with the knowledge of where they belong. Serve God in love

Any day we wake up and we are not in hell is a great day, Because that is where we deserve to be.
A person only needs to learn obedience when they are disobedient.

You're saying Jesus was disobedient when He learned obedience?

Obviously the god blind to sins also makes one blind to certain Scriptures that rebuke sins. Which makes perfect sense.

Christ never sinned a day in his life.

True, but the blind god also makes people contradict themselves. First Jesus had to be disobedient in order to learn obedience, and now He never sinned in disobedience? That makes no sense.

Because he KNEW how to be obedient. Any day we wake up and we are not in hell is a great day, Because that is where we deserve to be.

Spoken like a true sinner indeed. Unrepentant to the end, and glad not to be in hell, yet.

You plainly need to learn how to obey God, because God's people neither deserve hell, nor are they appointed to His wrath for judgment of sins.

The modern fetish in the Christian religion of loudly proclaiming how sinful they are and deserving of hell, makes less sense than anything else so far. Unless, we realize they are looking to a blind god that cannot actually see all those sins they brag about. Which does make perfect sense.

And he NEVER took his eye off what is important. To love others.

And so we see the true effect of blind grace that produces double minded people: they skip right over loving God with all the heart, mind, and strength, and go right to showing God how to 'love' people according to their own moral compass of self-righteousness.

There is no new creature in Christ Jesus, until after all dead works are repented of and the old man is wholly crucified and circumcised from a pure heart of the obedient faith of Jesus.

We can’t love UNTIL we are first loved by him (through salvation) so we have no capacity to be obedient servants.

Jesus first loved all mankind by coming down from heaven to be made flesh, and by not coming down off the cross when they mocked Him to do so. Now, He specially loves them that love Him by obeying Him for eternal salvation. However, He does not love it at all when anyone hypocritically calls upon His grace to sin and disobey Him some more, without judgment for their sinful deeds.

Anyone can obey a command, But only those born of God can be obedient.

??? Is this honestly the kind of grade school stuff OSAS preaches and teaches for adult wisdom of God??? Honestly, I truly would rather attend a Catholic church service before getting within 5 miles of this kind of dribble.

Anyone can obey a commandment of God, but only those born of God can be obedient to God...impressive. The sophists of old would be delighted.

Well, since OSAS is full of sinners like the rest of the world, deserving so much hell, then I guess it does sort of make a self-imploding kind of sense.

You need to take your focus off self man, and put it in Christ.

My focus certainly isn't on being a self-made 'good' sinner.

I don't put my 'focus' in Christ, but rather my soul, heart, mind, and body, which therefore must keep my 'focus' off sinning. Especially not to try and show how 'humbly thankful' I am not to be in hell, yet.

you look bad because you refuse to acknowledge your sin.

Ha!! I knew it!! Like the most-loving companions of Job, OSAS demands all Christians acknowledge they are sinners, just like everyone else in the world!!! Beautiful! Acknowledging being a sinner for life absolutely is the rite of passage to the OSAS kingdom for the blind. That statement is going right to the top of the list for the errors of OSAS. Just let people talk enough, and sooner or later, their own words will prove what they are really all about.

So to not 'look bad' to OSAS, woe is me, I must repent of righteousness and blameless living in Christ, and return to my former sins, so that I can acknowledge them to my most-loving OSAS kindred.

Uh. I don't think so. Having read all the things that OSAS must actually deliver in their 'Bible' studies and sermons, I would choke myself to death between fits of revulsion and laughter. Which wouldn't even be worth the graduation diploma to go and sin more.

I'd say looking bad to OSAS looks pretty good to God.

while they in humility look up to God in faith and with the knowledge of where they belong.

By your own words and OSAS doctrine, that would be in sins and hell.

If you weren't in such danger of hellfire, I'd say you people are a real hoot. I'm thinking the best thing you can do for your soul is to just repent of your sins and get it over with, and go on to perfection in righteousness, peace, and joy of the Holy Ghost. 'Celebrating' blind grace may sound fun, and I'm sure it probably looks real cute when the preach calls upon happy demonstration of it in service, but it doesn't hold a candle to rejoicing in the Lord always.

Honestly and sincerely. If you'd just look to the power of being born of God's perfect seed, to repent of all your sins and learn to obey Him in all things, as Jesus did, then you'd see the truth of God's grace to help overcome all temptation and sins of the world, as Jesus did. And you would stop arguing against full obedience to Him and His faith, and begin earnestly proclaiming it as necessary for His eternal salvation.
 

Eternally Grateful

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A person only needs to learn obedience when they are disobedient.

You're saying Jesus was disobedient when He learned obedience?

Obviously the god blind to sins also makes one blind to certain Scriptures that rebuke sins. Which makes perfect sense.
He did not learn obedience, By nature he was obedient.

Jesus never sinned. What he did was never learn disobedience
Christ never sinned a day in his life.

True, but the blind god also makes people contradict themselves. First Jesus had to be disobedient in order to learn obedience, and now He never sinned in disobedience? That makes no sense.
This statement makes no sense.
Because he KNEW how to be obedient. Any day we wake up and we are not in hell is a great day, Because that is where we deserve to be.

Spoken like a true sinner indeed. Unrepentant to the end, and glad not to be in hell, yet.

You plainly need to learn how to obey God, because God's people neither deserve hell, nor are they appointed to His wrath for judgment of sins.

The modern fetish in the Christian religion of loudly proclaiming how sinful they are and deserving of hell, makes less sense than anything else so far. Unless, we realize they are looking to a blind god that cannot actually see all those sins they brag about. Which does make perfect sense.
What kind of nonsense is this?

Where did I say WE do not need to learn obedience.
And he NEVER took his eye off what is important. To love others.

And so we see the true effect of blind grace that produces double minded people: they skip right over loving God with all the heart, mind, and strength, and go right to showing God how to 'love' people according to their own moral compass of self-righteousness.

There is no new creature in Christ Jesus, until after all dead works are repented of and the old man is wholly crucified and circumcised from a pure heart of the obedient faith of Jesus.
ok. We have to get on the same page here my friend, You are attributing things to me which are not true. You need to reread what I posted and then try to come back with better answers.
 

robert derrick

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He did not learn obedience, By nature he was obedient.

Jesus never sinned. What he did was never learn disobedience

This statement makes no sense.

What kind of nonsense is this?

Where did I say WE do not need to learn obedience.

ok. We have to get on the same page here my friend, You are attributing things to me which are not true. You need to reread what I posted and then try to come back with better answers.

You are attributing things to me which are not true.

Are you not a sinner?

Do you not continue in sins of the flesh?

Do you not demand all Christians likewise acknowledge they are sinners continuing in their old sins made new?

Do you not believe that living blamelessly and without spot of sin is impossible in this life, and so only wait to be made so in the next?

Do you not believe in an unconditional salvation by faith alone, so that despite your continued life of sin, you are guaranteed the crown of righteousness in the end?
 
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Eternally Grateful

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You are attributing things to me which are not true.

Are you not a sinner?

Do you not continue in sins of the flesh?

Do you not demand all Christians likewise acknowledge they are sinners continuing in their old sins made new?

Do you not believe that living blamelessly and without spot of sin is impossible in this life, and so only wait to be made so in the next?

Do you not believe in an unconditional salvation by faith alone, so that despite your continued life of sin, you are guaranteed the crown of righteousness in the end?
we were not talking about me, we were talking about Jesus

Please learn to pay attention.
 

robert derrick

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we were not talking about me, we were talking about Jesus

Please learn to pay attention.
You brought you up. And accused me of getting you wrong.

Since OSAS is the doctrine of never going on to perfection from being babes in Christ, I am not at all surprised to find them acting like babies.

And since you make no objection about my description of your false doctrine, then it stands as is. Which it has to, since I never would have ever thought it up for myself, but only got it from the OSAS toddlers in Christ.
 

Eternally Grateful

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You brought you up. And accused me of getting you wrong.

Since OSAS is the doctrine of never going on to perfection from being babes in Christ, I am not at all surprised to find them acting like babies.

And since you make no objection about my description of your false doctrine, then it stands as is. Which it has to, since I never would have ever thought it up for myself, but only got it from the OSAS toddlers in Christ.
I brought up Christ.

And you claimed I was saying things about Christ which were not true

Your OSAS rants are nothing to me. I was not discussing OSAS. If you can not pay attention to what people are discussing with you. then I will just move on
 

Pierac

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Where did you get this stuff?

From the Scriptures and reasoning I offered.

Chirst is not a person it's a title.

Christ is not an 'it'. He never has been an 'it'.

So the one who is called both “a man” and “God” in Genesis is identified as an angel in Hosea.

If you wanted to connect the dots with Hebrews 5, as I did, then you could see Christ as Melchisedec in human form, both when collecting tithe of Abraham and when promising him a son within a year.

You choose not to. I do.

This is a perfect example of Jewish agency where the agent is considered as the principal.

Maybe you choose not to, because you read Scriptures with the Jewish eyes. I'm Christian, not Jewish. I read the oracles of God as being in the hands of Christians now, not unbelieving Jews.

I really don 't care much about cultures of man, when it comes to Scriptures of God.

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

That's because the God of Abraham wasn't called Jesus, until He was made flesh.

Christ, the Word, however did all things from the beginning of creation, as well as made with Abraham personally, and also with his natural seed at the mount:

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Once you've consider all Scriptures, other than the ones you think you know about, then you can try reading the original post again.

Until then, I can't help you with Scriptural understanding.

Hope this helps with your Biblical understanding...

Not with biblical, but it is always interesting to read new ways to err in the Scriptures, especially when being read as Jewish stuff.

So, thanks for that much at least.

Again... Christ is not Jesus' last name... It's His title! Jesus is the Messiah/Christ It means anointed!
G5547
Χριστός
Christos
Thayer Definition:
Christ = “anointed”

Again... Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

So, Your saying Jesus has not always been the Son of God??? Your saying Jesus was the God of Abraham in the OT... and became the Son when He was made flesh???

 

robert derrick

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Again... Christ is not Jesus' last name... It's His title! Jesus is the Messiah/Christ It means anointed!
G5547
Χριστός
Christos
Thayer Definition:
Christ = “anointed”

Again... Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

So, Your saying Jesus has not always been the Son of God??? Your saying Jesus was the God of Abraham in the OT... and became the Son when He was made flesh???
Christ is not Jesus' last name... It's His title!

The man Christ Jesus.

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ.


It's His first name and last.

I am the first and the last.

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The covenant with Abraham was confirmed by God in Christ. Christ was also the Rock that followed them in the wilderness.

in these last days has spoken to us in His Son

He did so as man in the days of His flesh.

He did so as Almighty God in the days of Abraham, and as the God of Israel at Sinai.

Your saying Jesus has not always been the Son of God???

He was prophesied to be the Son in Psalms 2 and confirmed to be the Son in John 1.

He was not the Son of God, neither was God His Father, until begotten of God in the flesh. Beforehand He was the Word and Christ, which was made flesh.

Your saying Jesus was the God of Abraham in the OT... and became the Son when He was made flesh???

Now you understand me perfectly.

ALso, God wasn't Three, until He became Three before the foundation of the world, in order to create the world and mankind to have fellowship with for ever.

And God the Word was not called the Son of God, until He was made of a woman in the days of His flesh.

 

Desire Of All Nations

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There are books mentioned in the Bible that we don't have in the Bible. The Book of the Wars of the Lord, Gad the Seer and so on.
None of that validates the Enoch book though. The difference between those books and the Enoch book is that those books were actually referenced as authoritative/credible historical sources that were used by biblical figures to compile the historical events in the Bible. People who attempt to use this as an argument for the Enoch book are incredibly dishonest, and it just shows how gullible and deceived they are that they'll accept any book as unfairly excluded if it looks Christian.

Writings like The Book of the Wars of the Lord, the writings of Gad the seer, and the Acts of Solomon aren't in the Bible because there wasn't any doctrinal value in them to be included as canonized scripture. The Enoch book isn't in the Bible because it's pure heresy. There's a difference. No man was ever powerful enough to stop a book with doctrinal value from being canonized. Despite Zedekiah's attempt at silencing Jeremiah by cutting and burning his original scroll into pieces, we still have his book. I find it incredibly laughable that professing Christians actually think God is so powerless that He can't protect the writings that He wanted to be preserved from being lost in obscurity.

I don't know about Enoch yet, haven't studied much on it, but I'm not afraid of Jewish history and old writings to give me a better and broader understanding of the whole Bible.
Throwing caution to the wind when looking at extra-biblical writings does not make you brave. It makes you a fool. Paul explicitly warned about the existence of fables that were deceptive enough to seduce people away from the truth and that many people would allow themselves to be deceived by those fables, and yet here you are bragging about how unafraid you are to mindlessly jump off the cliff without a parachute or a safety net.

While some writings are certainly helpful in understanding the Bible, a lot of them were inspired by Satan to confuse people. By your own admission, you don't know a lot about the Enoch book or have studied a lot of it, therefore any argument you want to make about it being as credible as any canonized book is completely invalid. As someone who have found at least 6 different ways this book contradicts the Bible, i can say for absolute certainty that people should stay away from that book at all costs, especially if they aren't well versed in the most basic biblical doctrines.
 

farouk

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As in I didn't read it because I don't know enough about it and I have a migraine so I will not get into it.

You men could stand to stop passing judgment on people you don't know and sit down a little bit.

You are stressing me out and you assume too much.
@FluffyYellowDuck Hope you will be feeling well soon. My wife has rested for headaches and it has helped....
 
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robert derrick

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None of that validates the Enoch book though. The difference between those books and the Enoch book is that those books were actually referenced as authoritative/credible historical sources that were used by biblical figures to compile the historical events in the Bible. People who attempt to use this as an argument for the Enoch book are incredibly dishonest, and it just shows how gullible and deceived they are that they'll accept any book as unfairly excluded if it looks Christian.

Writings like The Book of the Wars of the Lord, the writings of Gad the seer, and the Acts of Solomon aren't in the Bible because there wasn't any doctrinal value in them to be included as canonized scripture. The Enoch book isn't in the Bible because it's pure heresy. There's a difference. No man was ever powerful enough to stop a book with doctrinal value from being canonized. Despite Zedekiah's attempt at silencing Jeremiah by cutting and burning his original scroll into pieces, we still have his book. I find it incredibly laughable that professing Christians actually think God is so powerless that He can't protect the writings that He wanted to be preserved from being lost in obscurity.


Throwing caution to the wind when looking at extra-biblical writings does not make you brave. It makes you a fool. Paul explicitly warned about the existence of fables that were deceptive enough to seduce people away from the truth and that many people would allow themselves to be deceived by those fables, and yet here you are bragging about how unafraid you are to mindlessly jump off the cliff without a parachute or a safety net.

While some writings are certainly helpful in understanding the Bible, a lot of them were inspired by Satan to confuse people. By your own admission, you don't know a lot about the Enoch book or have studied a lot of it, therefore any argument you want to make about it being as credible as any canonized book is completely invalid. As someone who have found at least 6 different ways this book contradicts the Bible, i can say for absolute certainty that people should stay away from that book at all costs, especially if they aren't well versed in the most basic biblical doctrines.
aren't in the Bible because there wasn't any doctrinal value in them to be included as canonized scripture.

That's a good way of putting it.

I've looked at some of that stuff time to time out of curiosity, and they are interesting, but they certainly are not Scripture of God to be believed for doctrine of Christ.

I mean, someone can red the gospel of Judas if they want, but who would ever use it for doctrine of Christ??
 

Robert Gwin

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So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ was name Melchisedec while in human form.

He first appeared to bless Abram after the slaughter of the kings.

Abraham knew it was the Lord, when He came with two others to spy out Sodom. How did He know? Because he had seen Him before after the slaughter of the kings.

Jacob did not know who He was that he wrestled with, because he had not seen Him as His father Abraham had: Melchisedec.

When the God of Israel was become flesh, then He was no longer called Melchisedec but Jesus, who is made after the days of His flesh Melchisedec in heaven, an high priest forever after His order.

Melchisedec wrestled with Jacob, that he might bless him. Christ wrestled with Jacob, to teach him the fear of the Lord: to know that it is not by might, nor by power nor by will of man, but by the Spirit of the Lord, that we have power with God.

Jacob learned in a no-win wrestling match with the Lord in form of man, that there was someone he could not outwit, out-play, nor over-power by the flesh, and so he was named Israel, having power with God to prevail. Not to prevail over the Lord, but to learn to prevail over himself, and to trust only in the Lord by faith.

When Melchisedec became flesh, to be a man made of a woman, He also learned obedience, as did Jacob, in a no-win wrestling match with the Father, who would never consent to disannulling His commandment to His Son to lay down His life for man on the cross.

Jesus as a man, made of flesh according to the seed of David, learned the same obedience as Jacob in that night in Gethsemane: though the infirmity of flesh is weak, yet the spirit is willing, therefore we are to follow after the Spirit in obedience to God, and not give in to the weakness of the flesh.

Melchisedec in the form of a man, later named Jesus in the flesh, learned the obedience of Jacob, which opportunity was provided to him by wrestling all the night through: There is no overcoming God, as Adam might have supposed, but in Christ there is only overcoming our own flesh in obedience to the Father, which we have by the faith of Jesus, the Son of God, made an high priest after the order of Melchisedec, being made perfect through the things which He suffered, and so became the Author of eternal salvation for all them that learn to obey Him, even as He learned to obey the Father, despite the weak infirmity of His flesh.

The lesson Jesus learned in the garden, was the lesson He taught as Melchisedec to Jacob on the plain of Mahanaim:

Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.

I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.


For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence.

God is not looking for the mighty in knowledge and skill, nor to them in understanding of all mysteries, but only to them that will purify their hearts, even as He is pure, by the same faith of obedience of Jesus unto the cross,and so be counted worthy to inhabit immortality in spiritual bodies.

We are the children of Abraham by the faith of Jesus in the heart, and we are the children of Israel by obeying Him from the heart.

Only them that learn obedience to the faith, as did Jacob all night long, and as did Jesus in the night, will inherit eternal salvation in the resurrection of the church unto eternal life. without shame.

As you stated Rob, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. But not actually Melchizedek, who was real, but many similarities to Jesus, who is the high priest according to the manner of Melchizedek.
 

Pierac

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Christ is not Jesus' last name... It's His title!

The man Christ Jesus.

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ.


It's His first name and last.

I am the first and the last.

Jesus never spoke or did anything in the Old Testament...

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The covenant with Abraham was confirmed by God in Christ. Christ was also the Rock that followed them in the wilderness.

in these last days has spoken to us in His Son

He did so as man in the days of His flesh.

He did so as Almighty God in the days of Abraham, and as the God of Israel at Sinai.

Your saying Jesus has not always been the Son of God???

He was prophesied to be the Son in Psalms 2 and confirmed to be the Son in John 1.

He was not the Son of God, neither was God His Father, until begotten of God in the flesh. Beforehand He was the Word and Christ, which was made flesh.

Your saying Jesus was the God of Abraham in the OT... and became the Son when He was made flesh???

Now you understand me perfectly.

ALso, God wasn't Three, until He became Three before the foundation of the world, in order to create the world and mankind to have fellowship with for ever.

And God the Word was not called the Son of God, until He was made of a woman in the days of His flesh.

So your saying Jesus was Adam the first man??? God in the Flesh just like the second Adam???

1Co 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

The first and last... Wow, where do you get this stuff???
 

robert derrick

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So your saying Jesus was Adam the first man??? God in the Flesh just like the second Adam???

1Co 15:45 So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

The first and last... Wow, where do you get this stuff???
It's of no matter. You can call Christ His title or last name, since Scripture speaks of Him as Jesus Christ, which He calls Himself by name:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So your saying Jesus was Adam the first man???

That's a poor twist, and nonsensical.

Scripture calls Him the man Christ Jesus, because He is the first man ever to die and be resurrected from the dead.

If you're going to be silly about things, then don't bother me with alerts.
 

Pierac

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It's of no matter. You can call Christ His title or last name, since Scripture speaks of Him as Jesus Christ, which He calls Himself by name:

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So your saying Jesus was Adam the first man???

That's a poor twist, and nonsensical.

Scripture calls Him the man Christ Jesus, because He is the first man ever to die and be resurrected from the dead.

If you're going to be silly about things, then don't bother me with alerts.

Now, you know what you sound like when you claim the title Christ... is literally Jesus' last name!

Did Jesus take that name Christ from God his Father? Does God have a last name of Christ???

I think NOT!!! Think before you post!

BTY, What do you know of Scripture? You only read translations of scripture as I read actual scripture!


Paul
 
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Pierac

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Jesus was God. He didn't learn patience. God is the teacher not the student.

Really??

Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

He may not have learned patience Oceanprayers... But He learned!
Unlike You.... who completely lacks wisdom!


So... What have You learned?
Paul
 

Oceanprayers

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Really??

Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

He may not have learned patience Oceanprayers... But He learned!
Unlike You.... who completely lacks wisdom!


So... What have You learned?
Paul
Really??

Luk 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

He may not have learned patience Oceanprayers... But He learned!
Unlike You.... who completely lacks wisdom!


So... What have You learned?
Paul
I've learned not to be baited by those who enjoy fishing.
 

Pierac

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Nov 15, 2021
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I've learned not to be baited by those who enjoy fishing.
Then you have failed my friend! I'm not baiting you... I'm showing you in scripture that Jesus learned! Luke 2:52
How? By showing your understanding is proven wrong by scripture... Nothing more or less. It's up to you to do the research to find out why your view goes against scripture...