Melted Aluminum from a Grass Fire on Maui?

[EclipseEventSigns]

Here's some interesting observations about some evidence from the recent Maui fire.
1. 2 cars in a grass field completely destroyed. Melted aluminum running downhill. Melted glass.
2. Field contained only dry grasses.
3. Aluminum melting point 1220 F. Glass liquifies 2552 - 2912 F.
4. Field was burned to property boundaries only. No other properties surrounding it were burned.
5. Field was outside official wildfire zone.

2 images showing field before the fire with the suspected 2 cars sitting in the field.
2 images showing the aftermath of the fire in the field with the burned out cars.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/08/17/maui-fires-pollution-water-soil/


Image published by Washington Post.
Observation: fire hot enough to completely gut the vehicle. Melt aluminum. Melt the glass. In a parking lot that has no combustible material around the car. Yet a few feet away, a tree has fallen on the car and still has many thin branches that have not burned from that same heat.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

 

[BlessedPeace]

Doesn't really seem like just fire damage does it? Tender tree branches, the tree itself, survives. While car glass and aluminum melts and runs down hill?

 

[Raccoon1010]

The hurricane fanned the fire which can raise temps to over 1,000F. Not sure what your point is here.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

The hurricane fanned the fire which can raise temps to over 1,000F. Not sure what your point is here.

Simple physics. Fires need something combustible to burn and enough of it for long enough to raise the temperature that high.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

WHAT ARE THE ODDS?

 

[quietthinker]

Ahhhhh, another reminder of what 'destroyed' means......unless of course it's gone to the afterlife!

 

[TinMan]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2023/08/17/maui-fires-pollution-water-soil/


Image published by Washington Post.
Observation: fire hot enough to completely gut the vehicle. Melt aluminum. Melt the glass. In a parking lot that has no combustible material around the car. Yet a few feet away, a tree has fallen on the car and still has many thin branches that have not burned from that same heat.

Because nothing in cars themselves is in any way combustible

 

[Jay Ross]

We should be mindful that "bush fires" operate within an open system. Fires are often spread by the generated hot plasm air streams that touch down or go around objects for no apparent reasons. The observable evidence after the fire has gone through an area does not make logical sense for many of us.

In physic I was taught that glass is a liquid and was "flowing" at a very slow rate at room temperature such that it appears to be a solid material.

The melting of the aluminium components in a car only needs a very localised hot zone around the al component for it to melt.

The claim that the steel columns were melted in post #3 is a furphy. The columns were heated to a point where the tensile strength to resist the structures applied bending moment caused the columns to fail. The columns at an elevated temperature would have suffered from creep failure and as can be seen in the picture, the columns along the street front suffered different levels of creep failure.

Also, the cars in the pic in #3, also showed that the level that they were burnt, was dependent on the amount of available fuel in the respective cars.

The observation of EES makes are valid from a layman's perspective/understanding, but from a science perspective, the presented observations are misleading. The open fire system was constrained by the boundary condition of where the fire went and the fuel load that was available within the fire's path, The two cars that were in the middle of a grassed property were destroyed by the fuel in each of them. The pictures themselves did not show what else was on that property within the fires path, and whether or not the fire had an impact on the boundaries of that property. The pictures in #1 showed that the fire did not consume all of the grass along the boundary that was in the field of view for the camera.

The pictures in this thread raise more questions than it answers.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

We should be mindful that "bush fires" operate within an open system. Fires are often spread by the generated hot plasm air streams that touch down or go around objects for no apparent reasons. The observable evidence after the fire has gone through an area does not make logical sense for many of us.

In physic I was taught that glass is a liquid and was "flowing" at a very slow rate at room temperature such that it appears to be a solid material.

The melting of the aluminium components in a car only needs a very localised hot zone around the al component for it to melt.

The claim that the steel columns were melted in post #3 is a furphy. The columns were heated to a point where the tensile strength to resist the structures applied bending moment caused the columns to fail. The columns at an elevated temperature would have suffered from creep failure and as can be seen in the picture, the columns along the street front suffered different levels of creep failure.

Also, the cars in the pic in #3, also showed that the level that they were burnt, was dependent on the amount of available fuel in the respective cars.

The observation of EES makes are valid from a layman's perspective/understanding, but from a science perspective, the presented observations are misleading. The open fire system was constrained by the boundary condition of where the fire went and the fuel load that was available within the fire's path, The two cars that were in the middle of a grassed property were destroyed by the fuel in each of them. The pictures themselves did not show what else was on that property within the fires path, and whether or not the fire had an impact on the boundaries of that property. The pictures in #1 showed that the fire did not consume all of the grass along the boundary that was in the field of view for the camera.

The pictures in this thread raise more questions than it answers.

All of these pictures show things which are contrary to observable natural laws of physics and chemistry. Your statements of explanation are not according to the facts of the situation.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

HOUSE INCINERATED RIGHT NEXT TO GREEN GRASS

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

LUCKIEST PLAY STRUCTURE ON MAUI

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HOOD AND DOORS OF THIS PICKUP?

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

2 CARS SAME DISTANCE FROM INCINERATED CAR. ONE SURVIVES. ONE DOESN'T.

 

[Jay Ross]

All of these pictures show things which are contrary to observable natural laws of physics and chemistry. Your statements of explanation are not according to the facts of the situation.

And what are your qualifications for your knowledge of how the fires developed and travelled. "Bush fires" are an open system. A scientific fact. I worked as a combustion engineer for many years. I have a mechanical Engineering degree. I have a working knowledge of how heat transforms metals. I understand how metals behave at elevated temperatures. Steel will dissolve in a zinc bath when the zinc temperature goes above 420° C/788° F rapidly. What you called as facts were untrue scientifically. I would be interested in your qualification that would show whether or not you are actually qualified to inform others of what actually happened in the island fires.

The pictures that you posted above tell a story, but it is what has not been shown in those pictures of the big picture of these fires which does not allow the conclusions that you have made true. Many modern cars have a lot of plastic in them to make them lighter for a higher fuel efficiency. The damage done in a car fire is dependent on how full the fuel tanks are. That is why some cars suffered more fire damage than others.

Your put down of my post is your typical reaction to another member's posts that question your point of view.

Showing pictures of the outcome of these fires does not make you an instant expert. I tried to qualify my comments by acknowledging that the pictures did not provide enough information to make conclusions as to how the sign bent a few feet above the ground in the fire, yet you claimed, from memory, that the steel sign post melted. I would have suggested that the signpost was halfway into a very hot fast moving gas stream that softened the steel post and as a result of that softening of the steel post a few feet above the ground the wind pressure in the fire was able to bend the post to a right angle.

EES I believe that you are over steeping your knowledge base and as such you are repeating your usual tactics to show just "how knowledgeable" you are. The outcome is actually the opposite.

Good bye.

 

[Mr E]

More nonsense.

Back in 2018, before the Maui fire conspiracy had been invented, we had the Greece fires (not to be confused with grease fires). And as a retired firefighter, you can google images of California wildfires or Canadian forest fires---- melted cars, and you'll find hundreds of images of melted aluminum from vehicles burned in quite normal occurrences of uncontrolled burnings, whether natural or man-caused events. Doesn't mean the two witnesses called down fire from heaven.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/25/europe/greece-wildfires-missing-intl/index.html

 

[Jay Ross]

@Mr E

I particularly like the opening sentence of the referenced article on the fires in Greece.



How do molten pools of Alumnium dry out such that they dot the charred roads?

I had a good chuckle about this reporters understanding of what went down in Greece.