Men's Hearts Failing them for Fear the Sea Waves Roaring!!!

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GISMYS_7

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Yes!! The day after the rapture millions will see the error of their non-thinking and see they made a huge mistake and become believers but now they must try to live under anti-christ rule and the judgments of the great tribulation years. ""“These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9""
 

Stan B

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Yes!! The day after the rapture millions will see the error of their non-thinking and see they made a huge mistake and become believers but now they must try to live under anti-christ rule and the judgments of the great tribulation years. “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9"

GISMYS, That would seem to be logical, but Revelation says that is not going happen. For those left behind "They did not repent of their murders nor of their sorceries nor of their immorality nor of their thefts." Rev 9:21.

The one who convicts of sin is the Holy Spirit, but after He is taken out of the way, there will be no more repentance, for "He who now restrains will continue to do so until He is taken out of the way. Then the lawless one (antichrist) will be revealed. 2 Thessalonians 2:6

Since the body of the saints is the temple of the Holy Spirit, when they are taken out of this world, so is the Holy Spirit. The time for salvation has passed.
 

GISMYS_7

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Yes! The raptured believers are caught up and go to Heaven with Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. The day after the rapture millions will see the error of their non-thinking and see they made a huge mistake and become believers but now they must try to live under anti-christ rule and the judgments of the great tribulation years. “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9" many will be martyred and beheaded.==
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Revelation 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?=====Best you not be left behind on rapture day!!!

Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
 

Davy

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I was not talking about the Second Coming, nor the 144,000. I was talking about the "the great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb" . “These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9

If you disagree with the very clear message of Rev 7:9, then we don't have much to talk about. It's sort of like Davy -vs- Scripture, an easy choice for me.

That idea of their coming out of great tribulation does not mean a rapture. We cannot add a rapture there where one does not exist.

The fact that they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of The Lamb (Jesus Christ) means they overcame the tribulation through faith in Jesus, NOT by an escape out of it with a rapture. The false Pre-tribulation Rapture school tries to teach that as a rapture when it is not.

The very purpose for the 'sealing' of God's servants before the four winds blow is so they will not be deceived by the symbolic flood of waters that will come out of the serpent's mouth (Satan):


Rev 12:15-17
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.


16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV

Jesus is not going to gather only Gentiles, and then Israelites after the tribulation. That's a crazy idea, and is nowhere written in God's Word. It's crazy especially because the majority of today's Christian Church are probably made up of ten lost tribe Israelites scattered among the western Christian nations!
 

Stan B

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That idea of their coming out of great tribulation does not mean a rapture. We cannot add a rapture there where one does not exist.

The fact that they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of The Lamb (Jesus Christ) means they overcame the tribulation through faith in Jesus, NOT by an escape out of it with a rapture. The false Pre-tribulation Rapture school tries to teach that as a rapture when it is not.

The very purpose for the 'sealing' of God's servants before the four winds blow is so they will not be deceived by the symbolic flood of waters that will come out of the serpent's mouth (Satan):


Rev 12:15-17
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.


16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

KJV

Jesus is not going to gather only Gentiles, and then Israelites after the tribulation. That's a crazy idea, and is nowhere written in God's Word. It's crazy especially because the majority of today's Christian Church are probably made up of ten lost tribe Israelites scattered among the western Christian nations!

Davy >> "The fact that they washed their robes and made them white in the blood of The Lamb (Jesus Christ) means they overcame the tribulation through faith in Jesus, NOT by an escape out of it with a rapture. The false Pre-tribulation Rapture school tries to teach that as a rapture when it is not."

Call it a rapture or not a rapture, all I know is what the Bible says, that billions will be taken to Heaven, out the the Tribulation.

Davy >> "The very purpose for the 'sealing' of God's servants before the four winds blow is so they will not be deceived by the symbolic flood of waters that will come out of the serpent's mouth (Satan):"

Nope. The Bible does not say they are God's servants, it only says they are Jews, and the purpose for which they were sealed, is clearly to protect them from the 7th seal as it is released, as they go through the Great Tribulation.

Davy >>"the majority of today's Christian Church are probably made up of ten lost tribe Israelites scattered among the western Christian nations!"

And you can prove that?? Nonsense!! That's just unBiblical junk promoted by the British-Israel cult.
 

Davy

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Call it a rapture or not a rapture, all I know is what the Bible says, that billions will be taken to Heaven, out the the Tribulation.

You cannot call it a rapture brother. The view John was shown was of the time of that great multitude standing before the throne next to Jesus. The timing is actually more specific with this...

Rev 7:15-17
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb Which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
KJV

Their serving God in His temple is about the Ezekiel 40-47 chapter events, the time of Christ's future thousand years reign on earth. The rest of those phrases in red are for the new heavens and a new earth timing, except for the living fountains of waters which will begin to manifest in Jerusalem per Ezek.47 when Jesus returns.

Pre-trib tries to teach that about their being in Heaven there (while the trib is going on), but the actual timing there is after... Christ's return and during His future "thousand years" reign with His elect per Rev.20, and thereafter.

Nope. The Bible does not say they are God's servants, it only says they are Jews, and the purpose for which they were sealed, is clearly to protect them from the 7th seal as it is released, as they go through the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 9 gives more info on the purpose of God's sealing of His servants, and that is what it's about, i.e. so as to not be deceived during the tribulation. The locusts are only allowed to 'sting' those who are NOT sealed with God's seal. That is what the sealing of God's servants in Rev.7 is about. That sealing as described by Apostle Paul is the sealing by The Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30).

So yes, the 144,000 definitely ARE... God's servants, sealed by The Holy Spirit for the tribulation, and represent believing Israelites among Christ's Church. They are shown again later in Revelation 14:1 standing with The Lamb on Mt. Zion in future Jerusalem. And so also are the "great multitude" which represents the Gentiles among Christ's Church, and shown in Revelation 15.

Pre-trib likes to teach those 144,000 are Jews that convert to Christ during the tribulation, but that's not what God's Word shows.

And you can prove that?? Nonsense!! That's just unBiblical junk promoted by the British-Israel cult.

It's Bible prophecy, and has nothing to do with any such British-Israel cult. If you want to know who the 'cult' is, it's false Jews who claim to be Jews but are not, but are the synagogue of Satan! That is what Jesus said, and it's still in effect for today! Those are the ones trying to usurp God's Promises which went to God's Israel, and not to the false Jews who try to claim them.
 
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n2thelight

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Yes!! The day after the rapture millions will see the error of their non-thinking and see they made a huge mistake and become believers but now they must try to live under anti-christ rule and the judgments of the great tribulation years. ""“These are the ones who come **OUT** of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9""

How does one worship satan as Christ if they not gonna be here?Only a Christian can die spiritually as they rest are already dead.

How can satan pretend to be Christ if he goes around killing people.

satan cannot force anyone to worship him,they will do so on their own free will,as they will think he is Christ .

This is whats gonna happen at the return of Christ

Revelation 9:6 "And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

Ask yourself why are these people seeking death and why won't they find it?
 
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n2thelight

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Christ said to put on the whole armour so you can do what,get raptured or take a stand?

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

The evil day is when satan is here pretending to be Christ,so do tell why do we need the armour if we not gonna be here?

Ain't no ifs ands or buts about it,you rapturist are in for a rude awakening .

It's for your own good that you are blinded to the truth though
 

n2thelight

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Those who die in Christ are with Him in heaven,that's how they come with Him,not because they were raptured!

I Thessalonians 4:14 "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him."

Does the above say died or raptured?

You all(rapturist) do some mighty fine twisting of scripture

Those who sleep in this verse are the same ones under the alter

Revelation 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:"

These souls were killed for their stand in the Word of God. Who could that be? The saints of God, for their souls are now at [not under] the altar of God in heaven. Those souls have died and are with the Father in Heaven.

Revelation 6:10 "And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord [Master], holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth."

Their blood was shed on the earth, while at this time they are pleading at the altar of God in heaven. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord [Ecclesiastes 12:7]. The time of revenge will come at God's appointed time. Before God, nobody gets away with anything.

Revelation 6:11 "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
 
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n2thelight

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As for the title of the thread

Luke 21:25 "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars: and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring:"

Here the Gentiles are translated "nations". Lets stop and look at the two words "Perplexity" and "Roaring". "Perplexity" as used here is # 640 in Strong's Greek dictionary: "aporia; the same as 639; a state of quandary, confusion, be at a loss mentally, appears to be no way out."

Look at the confusion that is common in our everyday lives today, with all the confusion, threats where many people can see no way out. Lifetime plans and savings gone in an instant, and rumors floating around the world.

"The sea of waves roaring"; lets look at the word "roaring". # 2278 in the Strong's Greek dictionary: "Echeo; reverbrate a loud noise, from 2279; a confused noise, (echo), uncertain, a rumor."

So these signs talked about in this verse deal with the signs of the sun, the moon and the stars. On Passover day three years ago there was a eclipse of the moon at the same time Passover day started. then six months later the same event occurred again on the feast of the trumpets, then six months later the same thing happened again, then six months later Jerusalem itself was darkened and was completely eclipsed the fourth time by the moon. Are you looking for signs in the heaven, those that draw attention to significant days of these end times?

Luke 21:26 "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

There is one time that there will be a great shaking both in heaven and on the earth.

Revelation 12:7 "There was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,"

Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not, neither was there place found any more in heaven."

Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

This is not a spiritual thing, but in fact, Satan and his angels will be cast onto this earth at the sixth trump. Those Satanic powers that are in heaven, before the throne of God accusing God's children will be kicked out of heaven, and we will see them face to face in person. Satan know that he has but five months, and he will try to deceive all the people on the face of the earth. He will take over all the world with his flood of lies, but not those with the truth sealed away in their minds. This is both the sixth seal and the sixth trumpet, and when it happens, Revelation 9 tells you what will be happening at this time. All the sixes align to announce one thing, the Antichrist is here. Are you ready for these untimely figs to fall to the earth?

Luke 21:27 "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory."

"And then", "After that" "we shall see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory." This is as simple as you can get. We will see the Son of man, our Lord Jesus Christ coming to earth with His army of saints after we have seen that shaking of Satan and his army of angels being kicked out on to the earth at the sixth trump. All the other events that Jesus spoke of; the signs and seals all precede the coming of Christ. Today there is a false teaching that the church will be gone before these events come to pass; but do you see the danger of these false teachings like the rapture doctrine. Those false doctrines are part of those rumors of the end times that give people false hope, and take away the armor that they should be putting on. These false teachers are nothing more that servants of the devil, preparing you for not Christ, but Satan's coming. Remember what Jesus said, "Take heed that you be not deceived for many shall come in My name, and deceive many." Are you going to be one of those many deceived? Then Jesus warned you: "Go ye not therefore after them." You've been warned! Don't follow them, but wait with patience on the Lord.
 

Davy

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Rev 7:9 . . . This takes place right after the sealing of the 144,000. A multitude which no man could number, were taken "OUT of the tribulation" right before the 7th seal is opened.

The idea of those being 'taken' out of the tribulation is an addition by the Pre-tribulation Rapture school. There is no rapture idea written there in Revelation 7 at all.

Even the idea of being 'taken'... is a false idea created by the Pre-trib Rapture school.


At the end of Luke 17, Christ's disciples asked Him, "Where, Lord?" about the one grinding at the mill being taken and the other left, and one of the two men in bed taken with the other left. He answered that wheresoever the body is, that's where the eagles will be gathered together. In the Matthew 24:28 version of that answer, the body is about a dead "carcase".

So Christ's answer was - where the 'dead' are, that's where the fowls will be gathered together.

What do fowls do with a dead carcase? They eat it, cleansing the earth. That is the fate of the first one that is 'taken'!
 

Stan B

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The idea of those being 'taken' out of the tribulation is an addition by the Pre-tribulation Rapture school. There is no rapture idea written there in Revelation 7 at all.

Even the idea of being 'taken'... is a false idea created by the Pre-trib Rapture school.

So . . . your position is that Rev 7 was written by a bunch pre-trib rapture bunch, although Rev 7 is clearly not a pre-trib rapture.

Wouldn't want the Bible to interfere with your delusion, which is total nonsense.
 
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Davy

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So . . . your position is that Rev 7 was written by a bunch pre-trib rapture bunch, although Rev 7 is clearly not a pre-trib rapture.

Wouldn't want the Bible to interfere with your delusion, which is total nonsense.

Now you're really... making things up.

The way you are teaching about the "great multitude" that John saw by vision in Rev.7 is a Pre-trib Rapture 'theory'. When you claim those were raptured out of the tribulation, that is to preach a Pre-trib Rapture theory.

The idea of their having washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of The Lamb is pointing to their having suffered through the tribulation and came out of it washed by Christ.

Because that is about the "great multitude" (of the nations) and not the 144,000 Israelites of the first part of the chapter, it also reveals Pre-trib's false idea of 'tribulation saints' to be a lie. They wrongly teach the 144,000 are 'tribulation saints', that they get left behind to suffer the tribulation and convert to Jesus during it and are then saved when Jesus returns with His Church after the tribulation. That idea is easily false there, because the great multitude having washed their robes is put for their having been tested and overcame in Christ Jesus. There is no Scripture that supports Jesus coming to gather His Church PRIOR to the tribulation.
 

Stan B

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Now you're really... making things up.

The way you are teaching about the "great multitude" that John saw by vision in Rev.7 is a Pre-trib Rapture 'theory'. When you claim those were raptured out of the tribulation, that is to preach a Pre-trib Rapture theory.

The idea of their having washed their robes and made them white in the Blood of The Lamb is pointing to their having suffered through the tribulation and came out of it washed by Christ.

Because that is about the "great multitude" (of the nations) and not the 144,000 Israelites of the first part of the chapter, it also reveals Pre-trib's false idea of 'tribulation saints' to be a lie. They wrongly teach the 144,000 are 'tribulation saints', that they get left behind to suffer the tribulation and convert to Jesus during it and are then saved when Jesus returns with His Church after the tribulation. That idea is easily false there, because the great multitude having washed their robes is put for their having been tested and overcame in Christ Jesus. There is no Scripture that supports Jesus coming to gather His Church PRIOR to the tribulation.

Davy, I have no idea what you are talking about. The Bible simply says that the myriad is:

“These are the ones who come OUT of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9

This passage is very clear and simple teaching of Scripture, needing nothing to be added or subtracted from it. Tossing around words like rapture, pre-trib, etc., are of no interest to me when they are used to attack what Scripture says.
 
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Davy

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Davy, I have no idea what you are talking about. The Bible simply says that the myriad is:

“These are the ones who come OUT of the great tribulation" Rev 7:9

This passage is very clear and simple teaching of Scripture, needing nothing to be added or subtracted from it. Tossing around words like rapture, pre-trib, etc., are of no interest to me when they are used to attack what Scripture says.

I'm not adding or subtracting, and you cannot just stop in verse 14 like you're trying to do...

Rev 7:14-15
14 And I said unto him, 'Sir, thou knowest.' And he said to me, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple: and He That sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."
KJV

"Therefore" is an adverb that joins the previous part in red in verse 14 with the red in verse 15. It means 'for that reason'.

They came out of great tribulation, having washed their robes, made them white in the Blood of The Lamb, for that reason they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.

It does not... mean they were raptured, period.


You said:

"Rev 7:9 . . . This takes place right after the sealing of the 144,000. A multitude which no man could number, were taken "OUT of the tribulation" right before the 7th seal is opened."

and...

"Call it a rapture or not a rapture, all I know is what the Bible says, that billions will be taken to Heaven, out the the Tribulation."


Your words betray you. You're preaching a pre-trib rapture theory about the great multitude.

There is NOTHING written there to show Rev.7:9 takes place right after the sealing of the 144,000. The "After this" phrase simply means after John saw the 144,000 he then saw the great multitude. It doesn't mean those events follow each other. It only means the order in which John was given to see the visions.

The sealing of the 144,000 is prior to the four winds blowing upon the earth, which is a symbol for the day of God's wrath on the wicked (i.e., the very last day of this world).

The vision of the great multitude is MILLENNIAL timing, AFTER the great tribulation, when they are standing next to God's throne, serving Him in His temple. That temple is ON EARTH DURING CHRIST'S MILLENNIAL REIGN of Rev.20. It is the temple of Ezekiel 40 through 47.
 

Stan B

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I'm not adding or subtracting, and you cannot just stop in verse 14 like you're trying to do...

"Call it a rapture or not a rapture, all I know is what the Bible says, that billions will be taken to Heaven, out the the Tribulation."

Your words betray you. You're preaching a pre-trib rapture theory about the great multitude.

There is NOTHING written there to show Rev.7:9 takes place right after the sealing of the 144,000. The "After this" phrase simply means after John saw the 144,000 he then saw the great multitude. It doesn't mean those events follow each other. It only means the order in which John was given to see the visions.

The sealing of the 144,000 is prior to the four winds blowing upon the earth, which is a symbol for the day of God's wrath on the wicked (i.e., the very last day of this world).

The vision of the great multitude is MILLENNIAL timing, AFTER the great tribulation, when they are standing next to God's throne, serving Him in His temple. That temple is ON EARTH DURING CHRIST'S MILLENNIAL REIGN of Rev.20. It is the temple of Ezekiel 40 through 47.

Davy, My view is somewhat different. I see this occasion of being taken up before the opening of the 7th seal. I see the church still here in Rev 6, where they will be here until the number of those to be beheaded is complete. They have been through tribulation, but they are taken away before all hell breaks loose with the opening of the 7th seal.

But there are a couple of things that have to be dealt with before the 7th is opened. The angels are instructed to hold off until the 144,000 have been sealed. And the purpose of the seal? to protect them against the fury God was going to pour out on the world, because they would be on earth with the opening of the seal.

But why were those of the church not sealed? Because they would not be here during the 7th seal.

I see this as the time that the Bible refers to the times of the Gentiles ending. Then the 144,000 are left here, begin God's re-attention to the Jews. What will be their purpose here on earth? I don't know. The Bible doesn't say, but I suspect it has to do with the Jews, Israel and Jerusalem in preparation for the coming King, and the new world order where the world is ruled from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

Anyway, I see that a new thread has been started addressing this very subject, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I am sure it will be charged with adversity. :)
 
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Waiting on him

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Davy, My view is somewhat different. I see this occasion of being taken up before the opening of the 7th seal. I see the church still here in Rev 6, where they will be here until the number of those to be beheaded is complete. They have been through tribulation, but they are taken away before all hell breaks loose with the opening of the 7th seal.

But there are a couple of things that have to be dealt with before the 7th is opened. The angels are instructed to hold off until the 144,000 have been sealed. And the purpose of the seal? to protect them against the fury God was going to pour out on the world, because they would be on earth with the opening of the seal.

But why were those of the church not sealed? Because they would not be here during the 7th seal.

I see this as the time that the Bible refers to the times of the Gentiles ending. Then the 144,000 are left here, begin God's re-attention to the Jews. What will be their purpose here on earth? I don't know. The Bible doesn't say, but I suspect it has to do with the Jews, Israel and Jerusalem in preparation for the coming King, and the new world order where the world is ruled from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

Anyway, I see that a new threat has been started addressing this very subject, but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. I am sure it will be charged with adversity. :)
You’ve received a new head. This is the seal of God
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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Men's Hearts Failing for Fear,the Sea and Waves Roaring=Signs of the Last Days!
09-01-19, 07:42 AM
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; """the sea and the waves roaring;"""

Luke 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

Luke 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, """then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh""".

Luke 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;

Luke 21:30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

Luke 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.==What generation?? Answer= the generation that sees all these signs! Are you ready to meet Jesus in the clouds as you hear Him shout, "come up here"==RAPTURE!
This took place in 70ad