Missing from bible

[KingJ]

Third world countries have different needs. God meets our needs.

In the West you have good doctors and medicine. As third world countries become better educated and receive more drugs, you will see and hear of less miracles.

God prefers to not do a miracle. Us living by faith as much as possible is His goal. Living by faith is not positivity for the impossible being possible. It is confidence and trust in God and His word despite the state we in. Faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed is needed to move a mountain. Believing , trusting, knowing that God can do a miracle is hardly a feat.

So many think they have God honoring faith when in fact that are stepping on Matt 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

Anyone who agrees that Job's faith was at its peak when he was at his worst, grasps the faith God wants us to have.

 

[KingJ]

I hope that CyB IT folks look in on our discussion and do something about making CyB user friendly for folks like myself. Otherwise it drives people away from this forum as it is not easy to move around.

Oz

Once you get used to it, its a breeze .

My only wish is that the editing of a post be less obvious. I am being punished above with an orange / red bar for one small spelling mistake :lol:.

 

[StanJ]

Hi Stan, not sure where you get that from, Jesus said "when the groom is taken away his disciples will fast" Math 9:15. Can`t get much more NT than that can you?

I get it's from a few places one of which is the following in Mark 2;
21 No one sews a patch of unshrunk cloth on an old garment; otherwise, the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and the tear becomes worse. 22 And no one pours new wine into old wineskins; otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and both the wine and the skins will be destroyed. Instead new wine is poured into new wineskins.”

In any event as the kind of fast and it was done under the old Covenant is not the type of fasting that is required under the New Covenant which Jesus made fairly plain my opinion. I posted the link with hopes that people would read it to see what it also talked about, but apparently that didn't happen.
Here's another link with more information on the subject;
http://www.christianbiblereference.org/faq_fasting.htm

FYI I am a diabetic and cannot fast so does that mean that my prayers have less chance of being answered than others?

 

[StanJ]

Once you get used to it, its a breeze .

My only wish is that the editing of a post be less obvious. I am being punished above with an orange / red bar for one small spelling mistake :lol:.

I agree....editing your post within 10 -15 minutes shouldn't really be indicated but then again we should proof read, so it's not a really big deal for me.

 

[jaybird]

Anyway, I guess my point to jaybird is that Christians do not follow in the trends of Eastern mysticism because our confidence is in a revealed Word rather than subjective personal experiences. Often, Christians suffer terribly in the world and their solace is not in various fasts, meditations, or personal efforts to bring about some state of inner enlightenment. Rather, they trust in the promises of God made through the Word and rely on the Spirit to strengthen them through grace in the midst of their weaknesses. Our resource is God's promise and our trust that what He has said is true and he will be faithful to us...even if we lose everything in this world. We look to another world and are citizens of another place.

but wouldnt the revealed word be more than just going to church and following the same traditions week end and week out. Jesus said the most important commandment, love the Lord with all your heart and all your might. how can one do this with out some kind of experience. it seems a bit difficult when your taught to stay 100% plugged into the physical world, yet have faith.

 

[Wormwood]

but wouldnt the revealed word be more than just going to church and following the same traditions week end and week out. Jesus said the most important commandment, love the Lord with all your heart and all your might. how can one do this with out some kind of experience. it seems a bit difficult when your taught to stay 100% plugged into the physical world, yet have faith.

I never said that following the revealed Word meant following weekly traditions. The reason for gathering in church is to be reminded of the revealed Word and live it out in our daily lives...not as the fulfillment of the Word's requirements in our lives. We gather to encourage one another in the faith and remind each other of the call of Christ, not to replace it. I never said the Christian life was without experience. However, our experiences flow from and are judged by the standard of what God has said. Our faith is not mystical. It is very physical and is to be practiced in our day to day life. Look at what Jesus taught about faith. It looks like a Samaritan helping an enemy on the side of the road. It looks like a Jew taking the load off of a Roman soldier and going two miles with him instead of one. It looks like someone with two coats giving one of them to someone who only has one. It looks like sharing good news of what God is doing and encouraging people to repent and live differently as a result. Jesus didnt teach us to contemplate our navals or try to annihilate our consciousness or merge our souls like those of eastern meditations. He taught us to study and reflect on God's word as it relates to daily living out compassion, mercy, love, grace and forgiveness. The Christian life is very much an experience, but not an isolated inner experience. Rather, it is a lived experience where we encourage and build others as we remind them of the call of Christ and the hope of heaven.

 

[OzSpen]

Hey Oz,

I do agree with you that in the west we have a tendency to be intellectual about everything and not rely or seek God to move in those ways. I would not be surprised if this resulted in a lack of the Spirit's moving in these ways. At the same time, I have been around some churches and individuals who placed a heavy emphasis on such things in their lives and this did not lead to greater works of miracles or wonders in their lives...and those works they sometimes claimed to be a sign or wonder seemed very different than that which is portrayed in the NT (i.e. someone falling on the floor or guessing that someone had a headache in the audience rather than a blind man given sight or dead man raised from the dead). So I guess my point is that we should pray and expect God to move in our prayers more than we do, but we shouldnt gauge Christian maturity on such matters nor place an inappropriate emphasis on them because we just do not see this emphasis in the NT.

Anyway, I guess my point to jaybird is that Christians do not follow in the trends of Eastern mysticism because our confidence is in a revealed Word rather than subjective personal experiences. Often, Christians suffer terribly in the world and their solace is not in various fasts, meditations, or personal efforts to bring about some state of inner enlightenment. Rather, they trust in the promises of God made through the Word and rely on the Spirit to strengthen them through grace in the midst of their weaknesses. Our resource is God's promise and our trust that what He has said is true and he will be faithful to us...even if we lose everything in this world. We look to another world and are citizens of another place.

WW,

I agree with the too-intellectual emphasis in some areas of Western Christianity and the showmanship in association with alleged healings. I've grown tired of some of the noise and kerfuffle that is called slain in the Spirit or the movement of the Spirit. I wrote about one of my experiences in, Charismatic chaos in a Brisbane house church.

However, extremism should not be a reason to stop us from engaging in the biblical emphases. Doe the Spirit move according to John 14:12 or not? I agree with what Jesus said and the link I gave to the article in Charisma demonstrates what can happen in non-Western cultures that are relying on the moving of the Spirit.

You and I do not follow the trend of subjective personal experience, but many do. Come with me to a local Pentecostal church or charismatic Baptist church and you'll find personal experience is exalted as 'proof' of the Spirit's moving.

We are in an era of subjectivism in both the secular and spiritual world. I agree with you that Christian experience has no parallel with Eastern mysticism, but try telling that to the subjectivists who are rolling on the floor, laughing and screaming 'under the anointing'. :wacko:

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Once you get used to it, its a breeze .

My only wish is that the editing of a post be less obvious. I am being punished above with an orange / red bar for one small spelling mistake :lol:.

KingJ,

That may be so for you but I've been here for a year and some of the features are not obvious. There is need for a mini-tutorial for new folks to the forum. I can identify with jakov's frustration with the software. Features here are quite different. If you don't believe me, go to http://christianforums.com/ and http://christianforums.net/

Like you, I find the coloured line under the post when I do an editing job, to be totally unnecessary. I've been to a number of other forums and not one of them has this stinking orange edited line at the base of an edited post. Surely the IT folks here can fix that in the software.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

Oz, you're presuming that just because you have a problem with it that most people do and I'm basically here to tell you that that's not the case. Most people don't have a problem with it or choose to learn how to deal with it. As you know I was on both of those sites you identified at the same time you were and I had no problem and I didn't see a whole lot of difference between them and this site. There is the old saying that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but if I can learn I'm sure you can learn as well. You know what they say about the worker who blames his tools for his problems?

 

[iakov]

Oz, you're presuming that just because you have a problem with it that most people do and I'm basically here to tell you that that's not the case.

So what?
There is a need for a tutorial or at least a "How to use this forum" page.

 

[Born_Again]

Stanj, I love ya brother but I disagree with your assertion of Gen. 9. At least three different version of the bible state it as a covenant.

 

[StanJ]

So what?
There is a need for a tutorial or at least a "How to use this forum" page.

Not from where I'm sitting, but as this is WAY off topic, take it up with Admin.

 

[StanJ]

Stanj, I love ya brother but I disagree with your assertion of Gen. 9. At least three different version of the bible state it as a covenant.

Sorry BA but you'll have to do better than that, like quote the post!

 

[Born_Again]

Well that's not a covenant that's a sign of God's promise to never flood the earth again. It's a simple promise that we are reminded about every time a rain storm ends and we see a rainbow. There is a big difference between a promise and a covenant.
That is very apparent, but the only way to get over that frustration is to ask questions and learn about them. Simply asserting that they mean nothing or have no meaning is non productive. If you want an answer you have to ask the proper question. If you're referring to the Nephilim then maybe you should just ask, and not just belittle the stories that scripture tells?

There, StanJ. Is that better? Sheesh, tough crowd lol

 

[StanJ]

There, StanJ. Is that better? Sheesh, tough crowd lol

Seriously if I don't get context I have no idea or memory of a post over a week old, but I was trying to differentiate between the two, much like Greek has 4 different words for love but all show love in English. You and Angelina need to get in here more often.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, you're presuming that just because you have a problem with it that most people do and I'm basically here to tell you that that's not the case. Most people don't have a problem with it or choose to learn how to deal with it. As you know I was on both of those sites you identified at the same time you were and I had no problem and I didn't see a whole lot of difference between them and this site. There is the old saying that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, but if I can learn I'm sure you can learn as well. You know what they say about the worker who blames his tools for his problems?

You're not listening, mate, and you are not the one to address the issue. I know that iakov, a new person to CyB is having some difficulty with navigating around the forum.

The IT folks here should be the ones making it super easy to attract people here and to stay here.

Your pejorative comments about me are totally unnecessary.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

So what?
There is a need for a tutorial or at least a "How to use this forum" page.

Thanks, iakov, for affirming that there is a need for a 'how to use' page for new people who come here.

Blessings,
Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Third world countries have different needs. God meets our needs.

In the West you have good doctors and medicine. As third world countries become better educated and receive more drugs, you will see and hear of less miracles.

God prefers to not do a miracle. Us living by faith as much as possible is His goal. Living by faith is not positivity for the impossible being possible. It is confidence and trust in God and His word despite the state we in. Faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed is needed to move a mountain. Believing , trusting, knowing that God can do a miracle is hardly a feat.

So many think they have God honoring faith when in fact that are stepping on Matt 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away.

Anyone who agrees that Job's faith was at its peak when he was at his worst, grasps the faith God wants us to have.

From where did you get the theology that 'God prefers to not do a miracle'.

Please provide your systematic theology for that one from OT and NT.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

You're not listening, mate, and you are not the one to address the issue. I know that iakov, a new person to CyB is having some difficulty with navigating around the forum.
The IT folks here should be the ones making it super easy to attract people here and to stay here.
Your pejorative comments about me are totally unnecessary.
Oz

So tell them and stop taking the thread off topic, and while your at it learn how to use pejorative.

People don't come to a discussion forum because it's easy to use, people go to a discussion forum because they know how to use discussion forums, or they learn.

 

[KingJ]

From where did you get the theology that 'God prefers to not do a miracle'.

Please provide your systematic theology for that one from OT and NT.

Oz

Hermeneutics and painful common sense.

- God is a like a rich man looking for a bride who loves Him for Him, not his money. IE God prefers we not ever see a ''miracle'' and still have faith and belief. A rich man prefers a bride that does not see or chase after his money. It is very difficult to trust their intentions. Hence scripture like Matt 7:22.

- Medicine is like giving a log to someone drowning. Anyone not contented with the log are stepping into dangerous territory / tempting God. IE Refuse medicine / the log and wait for miraculous healing / nice coast guard boat with a hot Baywatch babe ready to jump in and rescue you. That is Christianity today :lol:. We want to see magic.

- Sarcasm from Jesus. ''Faith of a ridiculously tiny mustard seed'' can move a mountain. Faith teachers completely forget to emphasize the '''mustard seed and its size''. Instead they teach that a mustard seed becomes a large tree. Adding something that Jesus did not say.

- Wanting more then what God has provided is testing / tempting Him. Now for a Jew it was fine to test Him. This was law 101. God worked with mankind then on a promise basis. Tithe = blessing. No tithe = curse. Walk through desert = promised land of milk and honey. Don't = death. Under the new covenant we dare test God. We tithe expecting nothing. We walk to the promised land even if it is only sand and mud.

- His peace surpasses all understanding Phil 4:7. To a a carnal mind poverty and sickness = no peace. Prosperity and healing = peace. But we can have peace in poverty and sickness. IE passes all understanding. As Paul says he has learnt to be content in any and every situation Phil 4:11. A Jew could never say that. A Jew would only be content if he was healed and prosperous...and for them this is forgivably understandable. But not for us. We have moved on. We don't need to chase magic for a sense of self worth when we are married to the magician.

- Jesus would not say Matt 6:26 unless He foresaw us having to endure hardships.

Anyways, I could go on all day. You want to share what scripture teaches you believe that God wants to do miracles? Can we agree to not call it miracles too? Lets call it what it is. Magic, signs and wonders. We live with miracles all aorund us. Breathing air. Walking thanks to gravity.