Modernity: Truth or relativism?

[Episkopos]

Jesus asked...do you not know the sign of the times?

When discussing what is happening in the church and in the world we need to understand the forces that undergird the modern society. I have started this thread to look at what has come to be known as...modernity. What is the basis of this modern way?

We can start by looking at Rene Descartes... the father of the philosophy of modernity.

He is perhaps best known for the philosophical statement "Cogito ergo sum" (French: Je pense, donc je suis; English: I think, therefore I am),

"In modernity, the guarantor of truth is not God anymore but human
beings, each of whom is a "self-conscious shaper and guarantor" of their
own reality. In that way, each person is turned into a reasoning adult, a subject and agent
as opposed to a child obedient to God. This change in perspective was
characteristic of the shift from the Christian medieval period to the
modern period; that shift had been anticipated in other fields, and now
Descartes was giving it a formulation in the field of philosophy."

We see this aggressive philosophy of modernity in churches with the common idea...I think I am saved, therefore I am...

Thoughts???


How much of what we are is a product of our times...as opposed to a product of power of the new life in Christ?

 

[HammerStone]

Well, I think modernity/postmodernity account for phenomena like the so-called "rise of the nones" you seem to be hearing so much more about lately. I think relativism heavily influences our hearts and minds because you get a lot of theology that works very hard to reject tradition and foster individual truth. I think a lot of spiritual buffets out there (IE: cherry-picking Scripture) result from the idea that your own reasoning assumes the role of arbiter of faith. What it boils down to is that we no longer have to accept a certain tradition of faith, we can reason away the tough to explain parts or drop them altogether if we don't agree and/or accept them.

I think the biggest symptom of this is perhaps the idea that we aren't so much of a community of faith as we are individual believers.

The basis is definitely Descartes and other Enlightenment era philosophers, theologians, politicians, and great minds. It certainly approaches things from a reason-centric approach, which I believe is simply code for a me-centric approach. I do believe reason has a place in faith, but it must be tempered by tradition, Christian community, and ultimately Christ.

 

[Episkopos]

Well, I think modernity/postmodernity account for phenomena like the so-called "rise of the nones" you seem to be hearing so much more about lately. I think relativism heavily influences our hearts and minds because you get a lot of theology that works very hard to reject tradition and foster individual truth. I think a lot of spiritual buffets out there (IE: cherry-picking Scripture) result from the idea that your own reasoning assumes the role of arbiter of faith. What it boils down to is that we no longer have to accept a certain tradition of faith, we can reason away the tough to explain parts or drop them altogether if we don't agree and/or accept them.

I think the biggest symptom of this is perhaps the idea that we aren't so much of a community of faith as we are individual believers.

The basis is definitely Descartes and other Enlightenment era philosophers, theologians, politicians, and great minds. It certainly approaches things from a reason-centric approach, which I believe is simply code for a me-centric approach. I do believe reason has a place in faith, but it must be tempered by tradition, Christian community, and ultimately Christ.

Well said!!! :)

I fear we have thrown the baby out with the bath water. Not all traditional thinking was wrong. But it seems with every new revision some more modernity creeps in.

 

[aspen]

i think there is a big difference between Modernism and postmodernism - M teaches that absolute truth existss and can be known through reason or revelation. PM teaches that truth is relative or if it is absolute we can only guess its nature because our personal bias impedes our ability to know it.

CS Lewis argued apologetics from M perspective. He took it for granted that absolute truth existed and was knoweable - the question of his day was which path (science/religion for example) was the best way to access it. Religious fundamentalism and atheism are also a hold over of M.