More biblical proof that supports Amillennialism

[WPM]

But earlier you said deception is not sin, and now you say Adam disobeyed God, and sin entered the world and messed things us. The way they committed sin and disobeyed God was in heeding the voice of deception. IOW being deceived caused sin to enter into creation, and death came through this sin of deception. Not only is the one who deceived committing sin, but also the one listening to the deceiver's voice, or receiving deception as though it is truth. It's nonsense to argue deception is not sin. Saying it is not, you are actually attempting to deceive people into believing a lie. How does that make your doctrine any different than that of the serpent?

He is all over the place. He is making it up as he goes. It is totally nonsensical.

 

[Truth7t7]

But earlier you said deception is not sin, and now you say Adam disobeyed God, and sin entered the world and messed things us. The way they committed sin and disobeyed God was in heeding the voice of deception. IOW being deceived caused sin to enter into creation, and death came through this sin of deception. Not only is the one who deceived committing sin, but also the one listening to the deceiver's voice, or receiving deception as though it is truth. It's nonsense to argue deception is not sin. Saying it is not, you are actually attempting to deceive people into believing a lie. How does that make your doctrine any different than that of the serpent?

James 1:13-15KJV
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Was Jesus every single animal brought in the OT?

 

[Timtofly]

More avoidance. There is a difference between the deceiver and the deceived. Sin kicked in when Adam and Eve embraced the lie of the devil and then acted upon it. They then became sinners. The same happens to your billions of religious phonies who do the same in your supposed future millennium. They listen Satan, embrace his lie and then yield to his instruction. Sadly, billions do this in Satan's little season. This blows apart your theology.

Deu 11:16 Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;

That is your private interpretation. That is not what God's Word states. So keep avoiding Paul and go with your own understanding.

 

[Timtofly]

But earlier you said deception is not sin, and now you say Adam disobeyed God, and sin entered the world and messed things us. The way they committed sin and disobeyed God was in heeding the voice of deception. IOW being deceived caused sin to enter into creation, and death came through this sin of deception. Not only is the one who deceived committing sin, but also the one listening to the deceiver's voice, or receiving deception as though it is truth. It's nonsense to argue deception is not sin. Saying it is not, you are actually attempting to deceive people into believing a lie. How does that make your doctrine any different than that of the serpent?

No, Adam disobeying God brought sin into the world. Not Eve being decieved by Satan. They did not die when Satan deceived them. They did not die when Eve touched the fruit. They did not die when Eve really thought that eating the fruit would change her life. They did not die when Eve ate the fruit.

"he did eat, and the eyes of them both were opened"

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

I am not arguing that deception is not sin post Adam's disobedience. I said it was not sin until Adam disobeyed God. There was no sin period, prior to Adam's disobedience.

God did not tell Eve not to eat the fruit. God told Adam not to eat the fruit.

 

[covenantee]

How does that align with...

Heb 10
4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

What tense is Hebrews 10:4 written in?

I.e. What tense is "is"?

Past, present, or future?

 

[covenantee]

Was Jesus every single animal brought in the OT?

Are you an animal?

 

[Carl Emerson]

What tense is Hebrews 10:4 written in?

I.e. What tense is "is"?

Past, present, or future?

Neither - it is not in the Greek text.

 

[covenantee]

Neither - it is not in the Greek text.

What will you do about it?

 

[WPM]

No, Adam disobeying God brought sin into the world. Not Eve being decieved by Satan. They did not die when Satan deceived them. They did not die when Eve touched the fruit. They did not die when Eve really thought that eating the fruit would change her life. They did not die when Eve ate the fruit.

"he did eat, and the eyes of them both were opened"

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return."

I am not arguing that deception is not sin post Adam's disobedience. I said it was not sin until Adam disobeyed God. There was no sin period, prior to Adam's disobedience.

God did not tell Eve not to eat the fruit. God told Adam not to eat the fruit.

They died spiritually. They were deceived. That is what pertains to the deceived in Rev 20. You have no answer to that.

 

[Timtofly]

They died spiritually. They were deceived. That is what pertains to the deceived in Rev 20. You have no answer to that.

They were dead as well, consumed by fire.

You have not listed the laws they broke in this future Millennium. You dismiss the whole Millennium, so of course you don't understand the Millennium.

Adam and Eve died physically. They went from permanent incorruptible physical bodies to temporal corruptible physical bodies.

Those in the future after the Millennium will be consumed by fire, both physically and spiritually dead as well, in the LOF.

 

[WPM]

They were dead as well, consumed by fire.

You have not listed the laws they broke in this future Millennium. You dismiss the whole Millennium, so of course you don't understand the Millennium.

Adam and Eve died physically. They went from permanent incorruptible physical bodies to temporal corruptible physical bodies.

Those in the future after the Millennium will be consumed by fire, both physically and spiritually dead as well, in the LOF.

Are you admitting your supposed future millennium is lawless?

 

[Timtofly]

Are you admitting your supposed future millennium is lawless?

No. The Day of the Lord is under the iron rod rule of Jesus as King. Are you admitting you don't know all the future laws, so therefore cannot even point out what sin is without knowing those laws? Disobedience is instant death. God can remove people before they sin, as God is all knowing.

 

[WPM]

No. The Day of the Lord is under the iron rod rule of Jesus as King. Are you admitting you don't know all the future laws, so therefore cannot even point out what sin is without knowing those laws? Disobedience is instant death. God can remove people before they sin, as God is all knowing.

So, your millennium and Satan's little season is indeed riddled with sin and death?

 

[Timtofly]

So, your millennium and Satan's little season is indeed riddled with sin and death?

Was the Garden of Eden riddled with sin and Death prior to Adam's disobedience?

Still waiting for that list of Laws to break.

There was a law in the Garden, and death was immediate and final. No rehabilitation in the Garden of Eden.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Was the Garden of Eden riddled with sin and Death prior to Adam's disobedience?

Still waiting for that list of Laws to break.

There was a law in the Garden, and death was immediate and final. No rehabilitation in the Garden of Eden.

Will murder not be a sin during the supposed future Millennium or during Satan's little season? Remember, from God's perspective, hating someone counts as murder.

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

During Satan's little season it very clearly indicates that the ones going up against "the camp of the saints" are wanting to kill the saints. They clearly hate the saints and want them dead. That makes them guilty of murder in God's eyes. But, you try to let them off the hook and claim that they somehow can't sin.

 

[Timtofly]

Will murder not be a sin during the supposed future Millennium or during Satan's little season? Remember, from God's perspective, hating someone counts as murder.

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

During Satan's little season it very clearly indicates that the ones going up against "the camp of the saints" are wanting to kill the saints. They clearly hate the saints and want them dead. That makes them guilty of murder in God's eyes. But, you try to let them off the hook and claim that they somehow can't sin.

I don't let them off the hook. They are consumed by fire. If anything I should be accused of saying they did nothing to deserve being consumed by fire. That is not letting them off the hook. They are consumed by fire before they sin. That is what I am saying.

I am saying they are consumed by fire before they can sin, because God does not let them sin, even though they would have sinned, had they not been consumed by fire. You are saying they were consumed by fire because they were born sinners.

You claim they were sinners even before Satan was loosed and deceived them.

I am not saying what is even a law to disobey in the Millennium. The Law given to sinners over the last 6 millennia cannot apply to the Day of the Lord. There is everlasting righteousness and no sin period. What ever laws they do have means instant death if disobeyed. So if you think they can have a thought and instantly die, just from thinking, then that is your view of a disobedient act. How do you even know what thoughts will be relevant in a world without sin and everlasting righteousness? You can only think in terms of being a sinner. You cannot even fathom what not being under sin even means, apparently.

Adam and Eve did live before sin was in the world, in case you forgot. They did live where nothing literally died. There was nothing ever planted nor fell to the earth and grew up wild. Only God planted new material. What all the sons of God and all living creatures ate were the seeds and fruit. That was their diet. Only after Adam disobeyed was the diet changed, and wilds things started to spring up from the ground. Since all life including the sons of God created on the 6th day, ate all the seeds and fruit, even the plants were different, constantly producing fruit and seeds without ever dying themselves.

You should at least pay attention to what God says, no?

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so."

"And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground."

No one planted seeds and grew any new trees and plants until after Adam disobeyed God. That is when trees and plants started to die, and had to be replanted with new trees and plants.

In fact it would not rain for another 1600 years. So planting would be really hard until the seasons started after the Flood.

Now explain to me how God restores all of current creation back to where plants and trees will not die, that you still think sin and death are relevant? Isaiah 65 explains:

"And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the Lord, and their offspring with them."

Once they plant something, it will never die. They will continually eat from the same plant the whole 1,000 years. When their great grandchildren move to their new home, they will do the same and eat from the same source for the remainder of the Day of the Lord. 400 years later 15 generations later or more they are still spreading out planting and staying in the same spot until you have people over the entire earth. It is those in the last generations looking for a new home at the edges of society to whom Satan offers something "better", so they all march to Jerusalem in protest. It says they march across the breadth of the earth. So it is not the first few generations living who are deceived. It is not those middle generations over 300 years old who have never rebelled, who are disgruntled and deceived. It would be those newest offspring and perhaps some of them had been killed for breaking the law, and they had friends who were destroyed by the iron rod government, whom Satan could easily convince that the government was an oppressive dictatorship.

You seem to want us in the mindset of an Amil, but yet you refuse the mindset of God's Word that points to what conditions will be like in the Millennium. They will be exactly like earth was prior Adam's disobedience. Definitely not the conditions of the last 6,000 years after Adam's disobedience.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don't let them off the hook. They are consumed by fire. If anything I should be accused of saying they did nothing to deserve being consumed by fire. That is not letting them off the hook. They are consumed by fire before they sin. That is what I am saying.

I am saying they are consumed by fire before they can sin, because God does not let them sin, even though they would have sinned, had they not been consumed by fire. You are saying they were consumed by fire because they were born sinners.

Did you actually read all of my post? Why are you acting as if one can only sin by actually committing a certain act, such as murder? Did you not read this:

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

Do you think this verse will no longer be true at some point in the future? I see no reason to believe that. So, do these people going up against "the camp of the saints" not hate the saints? They clearly do, right? What does scripture say? That they are murderers, right? This is similar to how Jesus said someone is guilty of adultery if they lust after someone else. God looks at people's hearts and knows their intentions. It can be a sin to want to do something even if you haven't actually done it. Do you understand that?

You claim they were sinners even before Satan was loosed and deceived them.

Do not all sin and fall short of the glory of God? It seems that you think scripture will no longer matter at some point in the future, which I find to be utterly ridiculous. I do believe that they are sinners even before that because scripture says that all sin and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Why would they be excepted from that? But, this is besides the point.

That point I am addressing is you saying that they don't sin at all even when intending to destroy "the camp of the saints". I'm showing that someone hating someone else is sin and considered to be murder. You either don't understand that concept or were somehow not aware of that concept before. Now that I've made you aware of it or reminded you of it, do you still think that they would not be guilty of sin as a result of hating God's saints and wanting to destroy them?

I am not saying what is even a law to disobey in the Millennium. The Law given to sinners over the last 6 millennia cannot apply to the Day of the Lord. There is everlasting righteousness and no sin period.

That's ridiculous. God's moral law won't just be thrown out the window at any point in the future before eternity is ushered in. Why would it be? That idea is utterly ludicrous. Only in eternity when we no longer are able to sin will no one sin anymore.

What ever laws they do have means instant death if disobeyed.

What are you talking about here? Are you thinking of old covenant laws or something? Those types of laws were done away with long ago already when Christ ushered in the new covenant with His shed blood.

It's very disturbing that you don't seem to even understand what sin is. How can you even repent of your sins and confess your sins if you don't even know what sin is? I'm very concerned about your spiritual status at this point because of your lack of understanding of elementary things like this.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Are you an animal?

Timtofly flies so he says. Sooo, a flying squirrel maybe? Or a monkey in the tree tops? Which is it Tim?

 

[Timtofly]

Did you actually read all of my post? Why are you acting as if one can only sin by actually committing a certain act, such as murder? Did you not read this:

1 John 3:15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.

Do you think this verse will no longer be true at some point in the future? I see no reason to believe that. So, do these people going up against "the camp of the saints" not hate the saints? They clearly do, right? What does scripture say? That they are murderers, right? This is similar to how Jesus said someone is guilty of adultery if they lust after someone else. God looks at people's hearts and knows their intentions. It can be a sin to want to do something even if you haven't actually done it. Do you understand that?


Do not all sin and fall short of the glory of God? It seems that you think scripture will no longer matter at some point in the future, which I find to be utterly ridiculous. I do believe that they are sinners even before that because scripture says that all sin and fall short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). Why would they be excepted from that? But, this is besides the point.

That point I am addressing is you saying that they don't sin at all even when intending to destroy "the camp of the saints". I'm showing that someone hating someone else is sin and considered to be murder. You either don't understand that concept or were somehow not aware of that concept before. Now that I've made you aware of it or reminded you of it, do you still think that they would not be guilty of sin as a result of hating God's saints and wanting to destroy them?


That's ridiculous. God's moral law won't just be thrown out the window at any point in the future before eternity is ushered in. Why would it be? That idea is utterly ludicrous. Only in eternity when we no longer are able to sin will no one sin anymore.


What are you talking about here? Are you thinking of old covenant laws or something? Those types of laws were done away with long ago already when Christ ushered in the new covenant with His shed blood.

It's very disturbing that you don't seem to even understand what sin is. How can you even repent of your sins and confess your sins if you don't even know what sin is? I'm very concerned about your spiritual status at this point because of your lack of understanding of elementary things like this.

It is disturbing that you think sin continues on for all of eternity.