More on the Covenants to Israel

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,827
1,055
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Already answered . . .

Isaiah's prophecy will be fulfilled, just as Paul affirmed, to the people to whom it was given, the children of Jacob.

Much love!
Who does Paul mean by the Israel of God.

Paul wasn't talking to Jews in Galatians and Paul included the Gentiles in the Israel of God.

Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule—to the Israel of God.
 

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
601
197
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Did the Old Covenant actually save anyone or were those before the cross saved in the same way as us after the cross?
Salvation is offered to all people, Jews and Gentiles before and after the Cross. All people are born with an innate knowledge of God's existence, that he is to be worshiped, and they will be judged by God, per Rom 1. All people are saved by faith in what God has revealed to them. Inherently, those who live deep in the jungles. and have no modern conveniences, come to know God innately, and are given the opportunity to accept God's innate "gospel."
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,827
1,055
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Salvation is offered to all people, Jews and Gentiles before and after the Cross. All people are born with an innate knowledge of God's existence, that he is to be worshiped, and they will be judged by God, per Rom 1. All people are saved by faith in what God has revealed to them. Inherently, those who live deep in the jungles. and have no modern conveniences, come to know God innately, and are given the opportunity to accept God's innate "gospel."
Yes agreed but the point is that the Old Covenant didn't save anyone only Faith in the New Covenant did.
 

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
601
197
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How so what? Don't understand this question.
What does "not all Israel is Isreal" mean?
You have redeemed Israeli and non-redeemed Israel.

Since Paul said, "not all Israel is Israel" then what did Paul mean when he said "in this way all Israel will be saved"?

Who exactly is "all Israel"?
This is a reference to the Tribulation (the last 7 years of the Jewish dispensation. All Israel will be saved are the remnant alive at the end of the Tribulation. They will cry Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. The unredeemed people of Israel will be killed throughout the Tribulation such that at the end of the Tribulation just a small group of Jews will be alive. These are the "all (that are left alive in the Tribulation) that will be delivered / saved. In fact, if God had not shortened the days during the Tribulation (7 years long) all flesh would perish. Those that are saved will enter the Millennium in their natural bodies, and will populate the earth during the Millennium.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,827
1,055
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
How so what? Don't understand this question.

You have redeemed Israeli and non-redeemed Israel.


This is a reference to the Tribulation (the last 7 years of the Jewish dispensation. All Israel will be saved are the remnant alive at the end of the Tribulation. They will cry Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. The unredeemed people of Israel will be killed throughout the Tribulation such that at the end of the Tribulation just a small group of Jews will be alive. These are the "all (that are left alive in the Tribulation) that will be delivered / saved. In fact, if God had not shortened the days during the Tribulation (7 years long) all flesh would perish. Those that are saved will enter the Millennium in their natural bodies, and will populate the earth during the Millennium.
You said that covenant theology was worse than replacement theology soI asked how so?
 

KUWN

Active Member
Sep 13, 2024
601
197
43
69
Southeast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You said that covenant theology was worse than replacement theology soI asked how so?
I really don't think your question should attempt to be answered in this forum. I have written several posts out here but they were 3 or 4 pages of text. Nobody read them. Christians today like to get small nuggets supporting their view so they can debate it. I am amazed at the responses I get from members out here. Many responses are down right rude and uncalled for. I came to this forum to engage in serious bible discussions. Hardly anyone out here knows the NT Greek. That would take too long as far as they are concerned. So all they can do is read articles from their favorite teacher. Nothing original is discussed, just the same biblical doctrines that have been around since the Reformation.

Sorry for my rant. Ok, let me tell you why I think Covenant Theology is not close to being a literal interpretive method. Most people who hold to the CT position, are Reformed, Calvinistic. they think the reason people go to hell is because of their sins. They are so Reformed that I have a hard time reading from them. To me Calvinism is borderline blasphemy. To CT folks, God has chosen some to be saved. They think we are so depraved that we can't respond to God because we are dead. They have no concept of what the implications of Rom 1. 19ff. They take promises to the nation of Israel, not understanding that the Dispensation of the Jews includes the Tribulation. Some believe that you have to have the works of a redeemed man, and that if they don't they may end up in hell.

Now I don't want to say that you hold to all the above. there are many variations of CT. I will finish this post to you so if you want you can reply to some of it. If you think we are just too far apart to discuss this, then you dont need to reply.
 

Marty fox

Well-Known Member
Jun 1, 2021
2,827
1,055
113
55
Vancouver
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I really don't think your question should attempt to be answered in this forum. I have written several posts out here but they were 3 or 4 pages of text. Nobody read them. Christians today like to get small nuggets supporting their view so they can debate it. I am amazed at the responses I get from members out here. Many responses are down right rude and uncalled for. I came to this forum to engage in serious bible discussions. Hardly anyone out here knows the NT Greek. That would take too long as far as they are concerned. So all they can do is read articles from their favorite teacher. Nothing original is discussed, just the same biblical doctrines that have been around since the Reformation.

Sorry for my rant. Ok, let me tell you why I think Covenant Theology is not close to being a literal interpretive method. Most people who hold to the CT position, are Reformed, Calvinistic. they think the reason people go to hell is because of their sins. They are so Reformed that I have a hard time reading from them. To me Calvinism is borderline blasphemy. To CT folks, God has chosen some to be saved. They think we are so depraved that we can't respond to God because we are dead. They have no concept of what the implications of Rom 1. 19ff. They take promises to the nation of Israel, not understanding that the Dispensation of the Jews includes the Tribulation. Some believe that you have to have the works of a redeemed man, and that if they don't they may end up in hell.

Now I don't want to say that you hold to all the above. there are many variations of CT. I will finish this post to you so if you want you can reply to some of it. If you think we are just too far apart to discuss this, then you dont need to reply.
FYI I'm not a Calvinist at all and believe that we parish because we reject Christ