MOTB by itself does not always = LOF ??

[Scott Downey]

Agree but a lot of it is our own selves. It was hard for me to admit to myself that I had been wrong all that time.

Same as Paul the apostle.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended it, but this one thing I do: forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as would be perfect, be thus minded; and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Bible Gateway passage: Philippians 3 - 21st Century King James Version

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you indeed is not grievous to me, but it is a safeguard for you. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the Concision. For we are the Circumcision who worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and...

www.biblegateway.com

Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you indeed is not grievous to me, but it is a safeguard for you.

2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the Concision.

3 For we are the Circumcision who worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh—

4 though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath grounds to trust in the flesh, I have more:

5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; according to the law, a Pharisee;

6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; as to the righteousness before the law, blameless.

7 But what things were gain to me, those I counted as loss for Christ.

8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them but dung, that I may win Christ

9 and be found in Him, not having mine own righteousness which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith,

10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death,

11 that if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 It is not as though I had already attained it, nor were already perfect; but I follow after, that I may apprehend that for which Christ Jesus also apprehended me.

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended it, but this one thing I do: forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15 Let us therefore, as many as would be perfect, be thus minded; and if in anything ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

16 Nevertheless, however much we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

 

[David in NJ]

David I hope you understand Daniel 12 proves beyond the shadow of a doubt = it is impossible that there is a literal 1000 years.

i SEE Daniel 12
Daniel 12 does not exclude or prohibit a 1,000 years.

Daniel 12 is subject to the LORD and His Revelation
How is it you and the others cannot SEE this in Daniel 12???

Unless one believes on all of the words of God AND seeks the LORD for understanding, they will not be able to understand fully.

 

[IndianaRob]

i SEE Daniel 12
Daniel 12 does not exclude or prohibit a 1,000 years.

Daniel 12 is subject to the LORD and His Revelation
How is it you and the others cannot SEE this in Daniel 12???

Unless one believes on all of the words of God AND seeks the LORD for understanding, they will not be able to understand fully.

Explain how ONE RESURRECTION involving both the just and unjust at the same time doesn’t prohibit 1000 years.

 

[David in NJ]

Explain how ONE RESURRECTION involving both the just and unjust at the same time doesn’t prohibit 1000 years.

Daniel 12 explained it for you.

 

[IndianaRob]

Daniel 12 explained it for you.

What does that mean? Daniel explains one resurrection of types of people proving there is no 1000 year gap. All I’m asking you to explain is why you think Daniel 12 allows for a 1000 year gap. What part of the text are you seeing that I’m not seeing?

 

[David in NJ]

What does that mean? Daniel explains one resurrection of types of people proving there is no 1000 year gap. All I’m asking you to explain is why you think Daniel 12 allows for a 1000 year gap. What part of the text are you seeing that I’m not seeing?

Danile 12 is very short.

Go back and read it again with prayer.

Let me know if you find where the explanation is.

 

[IndianaRob]

Danile 12 is very short.

Go back and read it again with prayer.

Let me know if you find where the explanation is.

You’re telling me I’m wrong in an obvious situation where I can’t see where I’m wrong and you won’t be kind enough to plainly point it out.

I would never do such a thing to you nor anyone else.

 

[Scott Downey]

1000 yr reign on this old earth after Christ returns with the unbelieving and wicked still alive and kicking, resisting God, goes against what He taught, and also against what the apostles taught.

 

[Scott Downey]

Genesis 6
3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive[a] with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were [b]giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

5 Then [c]the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent[d] of the thoughts of his heart was only evil [e]continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.

7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.”

8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Jesus said this,
Luke 17
22 Then He said to the disciples, “The days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. 23 And they will say to you, [h]‘Look here!’ or ‘Look there!’ Do not go after them or follow them.

24 For as the lightning that flashes out of one part under heaven shines to the other part under heaven, so also the Son of Man will be in His day. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:

27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built; 29 but on the day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Are you stronger than Him?

 

[David in NJ]

You’re telling me I’m wrong in an obvious situation where I can’t see where I’m wrong and you won’t be kind enough to plainly point it out.

I would never do such a thing to you nor anyone else.

You would never ask someone to read a short passage of scripture with prayer?

Moses, the OT Prophets, JESUS and the Apostles sure did!!!

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

 

[IndianaRob]

You would never ask someone to read a short passage of scripture with prayer?

Moses, the OT Prophets, JESUS and the Apostles sure did!!!

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God; praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, being watchful to this end with all perseverance and supplication for all the saints—

But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for [c]instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

That’s fine don’t worry about it.

 

[David in NJ]

That’s fine don’t worry about it.

Is it beneath you to read scripture with prayer?

 

[IndianaRob]

Is it beneath you to read scripture with prayer?

David I have read Daniel 12 many times and I don’t see or even have a clue as to what you’re trying to point out to me.

 

[David in NJ]

David I have read Daniel 12 many times and I don’t see or even have a clue as to what you’re trying to point out to me.

Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

8Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

9And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

 

[IndianaRob]

Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished.

8Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, “My lord, what shall be the end of these things?”

9And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Those verses tell us WHEN the resurrection is, not what the resurrection is.

Nothing in there modifies or changes or clarifies the first two verses in the chapter that actually do explain what the resurrection is - one resurrection with two groups being resurrected at the same time.

 

[David in NJ]

Those verses tell us WHEN the resurrection is, not what the resurrection is.

Nothing in there modifies or changes or clarifies the first two verses in the chapter that actually do explain what the resurrection is - one resurrection with two groups being resurrected at the same time.

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

What do these words mean to you?

 

[rwb]

As in Rev 13:16 does Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30 write that there is a 'MARK' on the hand or forehead of someone who has the HS seal c/- hearing, trusting & believing the Gospel, if so then please list the verses :)

Paul writes SEALED not MARKED - Eph 1:13, Eph 4:30
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John writes MARKED not SEALED - Rev 13:16
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The point is that just as the sealing of the Holy Spirit in us is not physically seen, neither is the mark of the beast something that can be physically seen. Why? Because these things do not pertain to physical things that man must have to sustain physical/mortal life in this world. Both the sealing of the Holy Spirit and the mark of the beast pertain to the needs of man in the world to come and are the determining factors for whether or not man will continue to have life or death when Christ returns.

Once Christ returns only those from among mankind who have been sealed with the Holy Spirit (bought/redeemed/purchased) shall have everlasting life with Christ forever on the new earth. The opposite is the destination for those from among mankind who have been marked by the beast (Satan).

When we have been born again through the power of the Word and Spirit coming into our hearts, we have overcome the second death that is the lake of fire because we have been bought/redeemed/purchased through Christ's redeeming works. Just as God has a way for us to know we belong to the body/congregation of Christ, so too Satan has a way for us to know those who worship him (the beast) and have his name and number.

We must first understand what buying and selling means. In my opinion a time shall come when those who have the mark of the beast can no longer buy and sell salvation. That time I believe will be when time given this earth for man to be saved, symbolized a thousand years shall be finished. Satan will not be loosed from the pit until all who shall be saved have been sealed by the Spirit of Christ. The spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven will be complete. During his little season after the thousand years expire, all who worship and serve the beast will possess his mark. Not a physical mark, but the sign of ownership of all who serve him through their thoughts (mark on the forehead) and deeds/works (mark on the hand).

Consider what Christ says when speaking in parables regarding entrance into the Kingdom of God in heaven.

The Kingdom of God in heaven is like a treasure hidden in the world. The treasure of salvation through His gospel and Spirit that Christ says is the pearl of great price. And for us to obtain it (salvation) we must sell all the things of this earth that we value more than having Him and purchase the field which symbolizes having ownership with Him in the Kingdom of God in heaven forever. We don't buy salvation with physical gold or silver; we buy when we are spiritually awakened redeemed/purchased through faith in Christ alone by the power of His gospel and Spirit.

Matthew 13:44-46 (KJV) Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

There is also the parable of the ten virgins, with five who figuratively bought/purchased oil for their lamps, and the other five who figuratively did not purchase/buy oil for their lamps to sustain them to the end. The light they appeared to have was not the true Light that comes from the power/Oil of the Holy Spirit. So, the little light/oil they appeared to have was not enough for them to endure to the end. They were never awakened (redeemed/purchased) through lasting power/Oil of Christ's faith (Spirit) that man must have to endure to the end. (Mt 25;1-13)

Christ instructs the church of the Laodiceans to buy of Him who is the gold tried/redeemed/purchased in the fire (sacrificial cross) that we may be clothed (made righteous/pure/whiter than snow) through Him.

Revelation 3:18 (KJV) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

 

[rwb]

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

What do these words mean to you?

When does/did the time of the end begin for this earth?

 

[rwb]

Look at Daniel 12. There are two resurrections. The first one mentioned is the FIRST RESURRECTION of the just to everlasting life and the second one is the resurrection of the unjust to everlasting contempt.

NOTE: Both happened at exactly the same time! There is no 1000 year separation anywhere in Daniel.

Daniel 12
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I agree that two resurrections are mentioned in Scripture. The first resurrection of Rev 20 speaks of the resurrection of Christ we must have part in to overcome the second death (damnation). Rev 20 also speaks of the resurrection of the dead. That is of ALL without exception who have physically died throughout time. The dead, both those who have done good and those who have done evil shall be resurrected from the graves in the same hour that is coming. They will be resurrected to life everlasting or resurrected to damnation.

John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[Scott Downey]

And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

What do these words mean to you?

All it tells me is don't make up stories...when you won't know, you just going to be proven wrong, when the end does come, about something.