Mother of Jesus?

[BreadOfLife]

Again, every honest read proves:
Every encounter (accounted for in Scripture) between Jesus and his mother since his youth is antagonistic.

I've answered. Now you answer or you're a liar.

So, I take it that you CAN'T answer the question?

I asked you WHY Jesus calls His mother "Woman" in John's Gospel.
If you can't answer this - just say so and I will explain it to you.

As for their conversations being "antagonistic" - YOU are implying that Jesus violated the Commandment to HONOR his mother.
Is that what you honestly believe?

 

[Mattathias]

The SHOW me the Catholic teaching from the Catechism that Jesus is NOT a human being.

This was addressed at the Councils of Nicaea (325), Constantinople (381) and Ephesus (431) when various heresies challenged this reality.
Your claim is FALSE - and the people who told you it was true either LIED to you - or are woefully ignorant.

I eagerly await your researched response . . .

Please note that I did not say Catholicism teaches “Jesus is not a human being”. I’ll be happy to show you Catholic sources which say trinitarianism teaches “Jesus is not a human person”, if you would like for me to do that.

 

[Mattathias]

Please note that I did not say Catholicism teaches “Jesus is not a human being”. I’ll be happy to show you Catholic sources which say trinitarianism teaches “Jesus is not a human person”, if you would like for me to do that.

In the meantime, please see 468.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - "He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary"

 

[ChristisGod]

Your statement above in RED is patently FALSE.

NOWHERE iin Trinitarian teaching is the humanity of Jesus denied.
In fact - it teaches the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union - that He is FULLY God and FULLY Human.

So, you need to investigate whatever caused you to post such a lie . . .

Jesus Christ gets His Person from His Divine nature as God the Son. It was the 2nd Person of the Godhead who became Incarnate hence He is God in the flesh, Emmanuel etc......

Nestorianism
Nestorianism insisted that there were two natures but that there were also two persons: one divine and the other human. Rather than unifying Jesus, this view separated the person of Jesus along with his two natures.

Two natures of Jesus
The two natures of Jesus refers to the doctrine that the one person Jesus Christ had/has two natures, divine and human. In theology this is called the doctrine of the hypostatic union, from the Greek word hypostasis (which came to mean substantive reality). Early church figures such as Athanasius used the term "hypostatic union" to describe the teaching that these two distinct natures (divine and human) co-existed substantively and in reality in the single person of Jesus Christ. The aim was to defend the doctrine that Jesus was simultaneously truly God and truly man.

Historical development
The doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus) was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Three major schools of theology were involved at the council: Alexandria, Antioch, and the West. The consensus of these three schools in the Chalcedonian Creed illustrates the catholicity (i.e. universality) of the ancient church. ^[1]^ The creed asserted two distinct natures, human and divine, and affirmed the one person of Jesus Christ.theopedia

hope this helps !!!

 

[Illuminator]

In the meantime, please see 468.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - "He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary"

Fashioning weapons from the Catechism and using them to attack the Church that wrote it is a form of witchcraft, IMO. The catechism is explicitly clear on the nature of Jesus Christ, you are saying it says the opposite.

 

[Mattathias]

Fashioning weapons from the Catechism and using them to attack the Church that wrote it is a form of witchcraft, IMO. The catechism is explicitly clear on the nature of Jesus Christ, you are saying it says the opposite.

I don’t understand your comment. I’m not saying it says the opposite of what it says.

P.S. Are you Catholic?

 

[ChristisGod]

This comes directly from the teaching of the Catholic Church and its catechism

Part One Section Two Chapter Two Article Three | USCCB

468
After the Council of Chalcedon, some made of Christ's human nature a kind of personal subject. Against them, the fifth ecumenical council at Constantinople in 553 confessed that "there is but one hypostasis [or person], which is our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity."93 Thus everything in Christ's human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death: "He who was crucified in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is true God, Lord of glory, and one of the Holy Trinity."94


hope this helps !!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Please note that I did not say Catholicism teaches “Jesus is not a human being”. I’ll be happy to show you Catholic sources which say trinitarianism teaches “Jesus is not a human person”, if you would like for me to do that.

PLEASE do.
In fact - who me ANY Trinitarian teaching that Jesus is not a human - Catholic OR Protestant.

This is a heresy.

 

[Illuminator]

I don’t understand your comment. I’m not saying it says the opposite of what it says.

P.S. Are you Catholic?

You said, "I’ll be happy to show you Catholic sources which say trinitarianism teaches “Jesus is not a human person”, if you would like for me to do that." To which I objected. The link to the catechism says nothing of the sort. Thank you, @Christophany, for clarifying the matter.

 

[ChristisGod]

PLEASE do.
In fact - who me ANY Trinitarian teaching that Jesus is not a human - Catholic OR Protestant.

This is a heresy.

Jesus is human but not a human person for He is a Divine Person.

This comes directly from the teaching of the Catholic Church and its catechism

Part One Section Two Chapter Two Article Three | USCCB

468
After the Council of Chalcedon, some made of Christ's human nature a kind of personal subject. Against them, the fifth ecumenical council at Constantinople in 553 confessed that "there is but one hypostasis [or person], which is our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity."93 Thus everything in Christ's human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death: "He who was crucified in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is true God, Lord of glory, and one of the Holy Trinity."94


hope this helps !!!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus Christ gets His Person from His Divine nature as God the Son. It was the 2nd Person of the Godhead who became Incarnate hence He is God in the flesh, Emmanuel etc......

Nestorianism
Nestorianism insisted that there were two natures but that there were also two persons: one divine and the other human. Rather than unifying Jesus, this view separated the person of Jesus along with his two natures.

Two natures of Jesus
The two natures of Jesus refers to the doctrine that the one person Jesus Christ had/has two natures, divine and human. In theology this is called the doctrine of the hypostatic union, from the Greek word hypostasis (which came to mean substantive reality). Early church figures such as Athanasius used the term "hypostatic union" to describe the teaching that these two distinct natures (divine and human) co-existed substantively and in reality in the single person of Jesus Christ. The aim was to defend the doctrine that Jesus was simultaneously truly God and truly man.

Historical development
The doctrine of the hypostatic union (the two natures of Jesus) was adopted as orthodox doctrine at the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Three major schools of theology were involved at the council: Alexandria, Antioch, and the West. The consensus of these three schools in the Chalcedonian Creed illustrates the catholicity (i.e. universality) of the ancient church. ^[1]^ The creed asserted two distinct natures, human and divine, and affirmed the one person of Jesus Christ.theopedia

hope this helps !!!

Soooooo - how does ANY of this "deny" that Jesus is a human??

By the way - the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union was defined at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

 

[Mattathias]

You said, "I’ll be happy to show you Catholic sources which say trinitarianism teaches “Jesus is not a human person”, if you would like for me to do that." To which I objected. Thank you, @Christophany, for clarifying the matter.

Would you like for me to quote some of those sources for you?

Christophany and I are in agreement on this point. Are you saying now that you are in agreement with us?

 

[ChristisGod]

Soooooo - how does ANY of this "deny" that Jesus is a human??

By the way - the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union was defined at the Council of Ephesus in 431.

Do you know the difference with Jesus being human and a human person ?

 

[Mattathias]

PLEASE do.
In fact - who me ANY Trinitarian teaching that Jesus is not a human - Catholic OR Protestant.

This is a heresy.

I’ll start with a Catholic source.

“In my experience as a catechist, I have found there is a desire to know Christ more but also that there are many misunderstandings about what has been revealed. As an example, some people are shocked to learn Jesus Christ is not a human person.”

The Incarnation of Jesus Christ | St. Philip Institute

 

[Illuminator]

Would you like for me to quote some of those sources for you?

Christophany and I are in agreement on this point. Are you saying now that you are in agreement with us?

I only disagree with your statement that the catechism teaches that Jesus is not a human person when clearly it does not. I am in agreement with Christophany's citations of councils in post #27 and 30. These councils were convened in response to challenging heresies. 5 centuries of development on the Trinity are accepted by Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox. Yet some Protestants have fits over the development of Mary, the mother of Jesus. It makes no sense.

The Incarnation of Jesus Christ | St. Philip Institute does not deny that Jesus was a human person. You are sowing seeds of confusion; as a catechist you should know better.

 

[theefaith]

Thank you for confirming. Are you familiar with Catholic Answers (catholic.com)? If so, do you recognize it as a reliable source of information on the Catholic faith?

No, it’s very conciliatory and modernist

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

Hi BJ,

Who decides what blasphemy is?

Blasphemy is blasphemy. It has nothing to do with decision.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Jesus is human but not a human person for He is a Divine Person.

This comes directly from the teaching of the Catholic Church and its catechism

Part One Section Two Chapter Two Article Three | USCCB

468
After the Council of Chalcedon, some made of Christ's human nature a kind of personal subject. Against them, the fifth ecumenical council at Constantinople in 553 confessed that "there is but one hypostasis [or person], which is our Lord Jesus Christ, one of the Trinity."93 Thus everything in Christ's human nature is to be attributed to his divine person as its proper subject, not only his miracles but also his sufferings and even his death: "He who was crucified in the flesh, our Lord Jesus Christ, is true God, Lord of glory, and one of the Holy Trinity."94

hope this helps !!!

I see where your confusion lies.

The Hypostatic Union doesn't negate Jesus's humanity. It states that His divinity and humanity are united in ONE Person, which is God.
This doesn't meant that He isn't a human person - unless you are still trying to separate His 2 natures as Nestorius did. Hew isn't a divine Person - AND a Human Person.
He is ONE Person who unites to Himself TWO natures.

The last line above in paragraph 468 says it all.

 

[Bartholomew Jones]

So, I take it that you CAN'T answer the question?

I asked you WHY Jesus calls His mother "Woman" in John's Gospel.
If you can't answer this - just say so and I will explain it to you.

As for their conversations being "antagonistic" - YOU are implying that Jesus violated the Commandment to HONOR his mother.
Is that what you honestly believe?

You are already "explained" it, and you're wrong. I'm not here to be "taught" by a disciple of a "queen mother." I'm exiting this conversation. So go get your last word in. I don't care you hypocrite.

 

[ChristisGod]

I see where your confusion lies.

The Hypostatic Union doesn't negate Jesus's humanity. It states that His divinity and humanity are united in ONE Person, which is God.
This doesn't meant that He isn't a human person - unless you are still trying to separate His 2 natures as Nestorius did. Hew isn't a divine Person - AND a Human Person.
He is ONE Person who unites to Himself TWO natures.

The last line above in paragraph 468 says it all.

then we are in agreement as Jesus is a Divine Person with 2 natures, a human nature and a Divine nature , yet One Person not two, who is fully God and fully man lacking nothing in either nature.