Must Christians obey government

[Enoch111]

Neil furguson was the minister you are talking about - and there is no way you can know that his models were wrong.

Ferguson was not a minister, but the Imperial College had know for A VERY LONG TIME that their computer programs has some serious glitches, therefore those models were actually GARBAGE. No one has sued the Imperial College for mischief or criminal negligence.

So now Ferguson *revised* his projections and then resigned, instead of being prosecuted and locked up for his bogus lockdowns.

‘Professor Lockdown’ Modeler Resigns in Disgrace
Neil Ferguson's Coronavirus Imperial College Model -- ‘Professor Lockdown’ Resigns in Disgrace | National Review

Redfield, Fauci, Birx, etc. (along with those in the UK) should have all been locked up for the extreme damage they have done to the economies and peoples of the West. All their assets should have been confiscated, and given to the survivors of the elderly who died for nothing (since they were herded together rather than distanced).

 

[OzSpen]

We are to obey governments unless they violate Scripture. Acts 5:29 says, "We must obey God rather than men."

Whenever a government violates biblical teaching, Christians are obligated to disobey that government. For example, if a government were to declare that we should kill all Asians, we should disobey. Governments are run by people and often become corrupt. Furthermore, the Bible never tells us to obey governments in contradiction to the revealed Word of God.

Cristo,

That's such an important distinction. It's what Corrie ten Boom & sister Betsy did in Holland by hiding Jews in WW2 (see The Hiding Place). Dietrich Bonhoeffer did it and was executed.

As Australians, we face euthanasia that has now been legislated in Victoria. Qld & WA are considering it. Qld has passed murderous legislation for the killing of an unborn child for any reason - right up until the time of birth under certain circumstances.

With this legislation, nobody can protest inside 150 metres from an abortion clinic.

Oz

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So the war for independence was wrong, got ya. In the USA the governments works for us and they must obey us

If you are really that ignorant that the USA isn't as corrupt as the other nations on this world then, got ya stay that ignorant.
People can argue all they want for the glory and loyalty for human government trying to convince true Christians that when the scriptures show the way you would know the true Christian congregation (Church) is that they show us the members of this true global congregation is for them to have love among themselves.
So expressing that you love a fellow man and and especially a fellow believer is by crushing killing and destroying them, got ya. That's what Jesus taught his Apostles and disciples right?
People can argue all they want but people had a belief in God during that of the war for independence. They had either a Catholic belief or a protestant belief. In this war of independence there were Catholics that killed Catholics and protestants killing protestant in the name of a imperfect human or a imperfect human government.
What the scriptures say about who are the true followers of Jesus Christ is absolutely insignificant it means absolutely nothing. You go ahead and believe that way, most of the world does. I looked at the history of war and found that all wars of the gentile people were actually about greed and power.

 

[Rita]

Ferguson was not a minister, but the Imperial College had know for A VERY LONG TIME that their computer programs has some serious glitches, therefore those models were actually GARBAGE. No one has sued the Imperial College for mischief or criminal negligence.

So now Ferguson *revised* his projections and then resigned, instead of being prosecuted and locked up for his bogus lockdowns.

‘Professor Lockdown’ Modeler Resigns in Disgrace
Neil Ferguson's Coronavirus Imperial College Model -- ‘Professor Lockdown’ Resigns in Disgrace | National Review

Redfield, Fauci, Birx, etc. (along with those in the UK) should have all been locked up for the extreme damage they have done to the economies and peoples of the West. All their assets should have been confiscated, and given to the survivors of the elderly who died for nothing (since they were herded together rather than distanced).

Thanks Enoch - that was an interesting read. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it !
Also the lockdown would not have been solely based on just his voice, if it was then bigger fool to both our leaders for following one persons ‘ speculation ‘.
I do stand corrected on who he was and the wider issues.

Rita

 

[Rita]

They were hilariously wrong. He has no idea what he is doing. It was proved here he was absolutely wrong and all that crap we did was for nothing

As I said to Enoch , hindsight is such a wonderful thing !
Rita

 

[APAK]

I guess I should have said this in my OP that was always starting at me....and it just did not click at that time of writing it.

We don't have a national government or for that matter, down to the local levels, as ordained and planted by God anymore - to obey for our own good, for peace, prosperity and long life (Romans 13). These so-called governments of today, in most places of the globe should be more precisely called quasi-technocratic-ally-ran governments. They do not function as governments that can be easily controlled by the people anymore. They exist in name only. They are out-of-control and are imprisoned by foreign forces outside the peoples business and interests. These interests that are found in these governments of today have their own global agenda. These forms of 'strange' governance have become an abomination to God's original plan and intend and desire of a human government for the people.

Again, per Romans 13, God never established these forms of government with his authorization for authority as he ordained, of those we see today. And therefore these human authorities are not recognized by God today and we should not either. Of course we should be careful not fit all governing bodies into the same bag, with the same evil and oppressive intentions. They will only get worse as these technocrats wield more and power, and sway over people. Are we not seeing this every day now?


APAK

 

[historyb]

If you are really that ignorant that the USA isn't as corrupt as the other nations on this world then, got ya stay that ignorant.
People can argue all they want for the glory and loyalty for human government trying to convince true Christians that when the scriptures show the way you would know the true Christian congregation (Church) is that they show us the members of this true global congregation is for them to have love among themselves.
So expressing that you love a fellow man and and especially a fellow believer is by crushing killing and destroying them, got ya. That's what Jesus taught his Apostles and disciples right?
People can argue all they want but people had a belief in God during that of the war for independence. They had either a Catholic belief or a protestant belief. In this war of independence there were Catholics that killed Catholics and protestants killing protestant in the name of a imperfect human or a imperfect human government.
What the scriptures say about who are the true followers of Jesus Christ is absolutely insignificant it means absolutely nothing. You go ahead and believe that way, most of the world does. I looked at the history of war and found that all wars of the gentile people were actually about greed and power.

Maybe you should to a country you love like maybe North Korea or China where you'll love the oppression I am sure

 

[historyb]

I guess I should have said this in my OP that was always starting at me....and it just did not click at that time of writing it.

We don't have a national government or for that matter, down to the local levels, as ordained and planted by God anymore - to obey for our own good, for peace, prosperity and long life (Romans 13). These so-called governments of today, in most places of the globe should be more precisely called quasi-technocratic-ally-ran governments. They do not function as governments that can be easily controlled by the people anymore. They exist in name only. They are out-of-control and are imprisoned by foreign forces outside the peoples business and interests. These interests that are found in these governments of today have their own global agenda. These forms of 'strange' governance have become an abomination to God's original plan and intend and desire of a human government for the people.

Again, per Romans 13, God never established these forms of government with his authorization for authority as he ordained, of those we see today. And therefore these human authorities are not recognized by God today and we should not either. Of course we should be careful not fit all governing bodies into the same bag, with the same evil and oppressive intentions. They will only get worse as these technocrats wield more and power, and sway over people. Are we not seeing this every day now?


APAK

I don't think our Government was ever ordained by God. When that verse was written the world was different people had no voice, so it was the best thing to say. We have a voice, they may not listen but we have one and if need be we need to use it more by having a new revolution. There is a problem though in 200 years we would be back where we are.

All the problems we have are because of liberals. Liberals wanted slavery, liberals started the civil war, liberals founded the KKK and white supremacy, liberals founded segregation, liberals are trying to oppress us at every turn. Get rid of liberals problems go away

 

[APAK]

I don't think our Government was ever ordained by God. When that verse was written the world was different people had no voice, so it was the best thing to say. We have a voice, they may not listen but we have one and if need be we need to use it more by having a new revolution. There is a problem though in 200 years we would be back where we are.

All the problems we have are because of liberals. Liberals wanted slavery, liberals started the civil war, liberals founded the KKK and white supremacy, liberals founded segregation, liberals are trying to oppress us at every turn. Get rid of liberals problems go away

I agree with the US history of government, as you pointed out. And then when God ordained human government he made it to adhere to God's desires and 'good' government for the people good sense and way to live, as our civics was born out of it. Back then, it was the local and 'smaller' governmental bodies he had in mind, and not these huge national/ multinational and even global governmental bodies like the WHO UN etc....they IMO are Godless. And there are loads of 'liberals' in these bodies.

Thanks, Bless your way as we wander and wonder how the world will end through Christ.

APAK

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Maybe you should to a country you love like maybe North Korea or China where you'll love the oppression I am sure

You brought up the war for independence I was just letting you know that those who are actually true Christians wouldn't be a part of war. Love for The True God and his Only Begotten Son and showing that love the same way that The True God and his Only Begotten Son showed it is the example true Christians are to follow. Jesus Christ didn't teach his Apostles and disciples to fight and kill each other much less teach them to fight and kill those corrupt governments because those corrupt governments put them in prison and even killed them for preaching about Gods kingdom and his Only Begotten Son

 

[historyb]

You brought up the war for independence I was just letting you know that those who are actually true Christians wouldn't be a part of war. Love for The True God and his Only Begotten Son and showing that love the same way that The True God and his Only Begotten Son showed it is the example true Christians are to follow. Jesus Christ didn't teach his Apostles and disciples to fight and kill each other much less teach them to fight and kill those corrupt governments because those corrupt governments put them in prison and even killed them for preaching about Gods kingdom and his Only Begotten Son

coward, won't even stand up for your country.

 

[kcnalp]

coward, won't even stand up for your country.

Yeah! He won't kill innocent people for corrupt politicians!

 

[amadeus]

coward, won't even stand up for your country.

In Nazi Germany the JWs were the only group that as a whole opposed Hitler's war and refused to remain quiet because of their beliefs. Many of them, like the Jews, went to concentration camps, not however because of their ethnic background, but rather because they refused to renounce their beliefs and perform military service. If you know anything at all about the Nazi concentration camps you must know that that was not cowardice! Unlike the Jews they could have escaped persecution by renouncing their faith. For the most part they would not...! Of 10,000 JWs about half were imprisoned and more than a thousand died for their beliefs.

 

[historyb]

In Nazi Germany the JWs were the only group that as a whole opposed Hitler's war and refused to remain quiet because of their beliefs. Many of them, like the Jews, went to concentration camps, not however because of their ethnic background, but rather because they refused to renounce their beliefs and perform military service. If you know anything at all about the Nazi concentration camps you must know that that was not cowardice! Unlike the Jews they could have escaped persecution by renouncing their faith. For the most part they would not...! Of 10,000 JWs about half were imprisoned and more than a thousand died for their beliefs.

Was I talking about them? You have a prosperity to say things that are outlandish. That moron I was talking to is an absolute coward, many God earing man fought for the freedom of this country. Hitler's war was not even close to the was for independence that great man fought so we could be free, you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the two. I am placing you on ignore until you learn not to do outlandish things that are absurd like you did here. If your not ashamed of yourself I will be embarrassed for you.

 

[amadeus]

Was I talking about them? You have a prosperity to say things that are outlandish. That moron I was talking to is an absolute coward, many God earing man fought for the freedom of this country. Hitler's war was not even close to the was for independence that great man fought so we could be free, you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the two. I am placing you on ignore until you learn not to do outlandish things that are absurd like you did here. If your not ashamed of yourself I will be embarrassed for you.

Carry on as you must! Until we meet again then... Give God the glory!

 

[kcnalp]

Was I talking about them? You have a prosperity to say things that are outlandish. That moron I was talking to is an absolute coward, many God earing man fought for the freedom of this country. Hitler's war was not even close to the was for independence that great man fought so we could be free, you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the two. I am placing you on ignore until you learn not to do outlandish things that are absurd like you did here. If your not ashamed of yourself I will be embarrassed for you.

How is that being a coward? No doubt the majority would agree with you and severely persecute those who refuse to kill innocent people for filthy rich CORRUPT politicians. Seems cowardly to me to join the mob.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

coward, won't even stand up for your country.

You want even stand up for the person you call your Lord and King Jesus Christ. He is King of that Messianic kingdom you're suppose to be loyal to. Instead human governments are more important to you than the Messianic kingdom

 

[Rita]

Was I talking about them? You have a prosperity to say things that are outlandish. That moron I was talking to is an absolute coward, many God earing man fought for the freedom of this country. Hitler's war was not even close to the was for independence that great man fought so we could be free, you should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the two. I am placing you on ignore until you learn not to do outlandish things that are absurd like you did here. If your not ashamed of yourself I will be embarrassed for you.

Calling someone a moron and coward just because they have a different view on war - seriously !
War of independence took about 7,000 lives, Hitlers war took 85 million lives - and 405,000 were Americans. They fought for the freedom of many countries. I am not sure it’s Amadeus that needs to learn something !
I have mixed views about war, when it is in defence of others then it is just, but I think men have the right to refuse to take up arms without being insulted or classed as cowards.
Rita

 

[Rita]

You want even stand up for the person you call your Lord and King Jesus Christ. He is King of that Messianic kingdom you're suppose to be loyal to. Instead human governments are more important to you than the Messianic kingdom

I equally don’t think it’s right to condemn someone who will take up arms.
Many Christians gave up their lives for others so that they could live in freedom, some of that freedom you yourself have experienced. Rita

 

[lforrest]

Calling someone a moron and coward just because they have a different view on war - seriously !
War of independence took about 7,000 lives, Hitlers war took 85 million lives - and 405,000 were Americans. They fought for the freedom of many countries. I am not sure it’s Amadeus that needs to learn something !
I have mixed views about war, when it is in defence of others then it is just, but I think men have the right to refuse to take up arms without being insulted or classed as cowards.
Rita

Metal of honor recipient Desmond Doss was certainty no coward. Nether were the many like him who died, not baring arms.