We always think God needs our help, that we can help push things along. God calls and the Holy Spirit convicts in His own time and in His own way. Our well-meaning efforts may well be getting in the way.
My agnostic friend says: "I don't need it." - How would you respond?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???
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Is Lying a Violation of the Ten Commandments? - No. - Well, maybe... ???
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try saying to him, I really want to see you in Heaven. Would you like to know How to get there?
He's agnostic. There is no concrete evidence of an afterlife. He has no concerns about it.
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My old mate who is an agnostic, was right ! he sure as hell does not need it ! I know that for a fact now ! Him in the Church, no way ! he is just outright evil, he gets everything so wrong and starts pushing such.
Brother, use a what if there is a Heaven and Eternal Punishment. Which way would he want to place his bet?
Not so with my friend. He's a fine person.
Conservative Christian (Evangelical) politics really puts him off, that's for sure.
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I won't use fear tactics. I'm a Christian Universalist anyway.
AND... I promised to never tell him he's going to hell. (when he asked)
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Our task as Christians is not to communicate the truth, but to find the way of communicating the truth that makes the decisive difference.
To judge by the inept replies of your respondents, I'd wager that none of them has personally led anyone to the Lord.
To judge by the inept replies of your respondents, I'd wager that none of them has personally led anyone to the Lord.
Great post, thanks.
But, if we have a fish on the line we need to know how to get it in the boat.
What can we do to help them?
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I leave the results to God.
But, if we have a fish on the line we need to know how to get it in the boat.
Yes. That's a good observation.
What can we do to help them?
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Behold
Well-Known Member
This is the classic "Jesus is a crutch" mantra that you hear from people who love sin. (they all do).
So, his perception is....>"only the weak need Jesus".
So, he sees Jesus as a life support, but in the wrong way.
He has it backwards.
The Crutch is Xanax or Medical Marijuana... or similar.
Whereas Jesus is the CURE.
Once again, that is the typical "crutch" response, and this time, he replaced the word "Jesus" with the word" "religion".
"oh, i see you got Religion"... "but i knew you when you were beating your wife". "you not fooling me, like you fooled Jesus"...
So, that is a prime example of why its ultra difficult to talk to a lost family member, about Jesus.
The verse for this is..>"No prophet is honored in their own hometown".
However, in this case, its not a family member.
Its just a typical lost sinner.
So, the way you handle this is to not handle it.
See,....... you, me, Paul, Peter.....Mary........we can't make someone believe.
We are not called to be their Savior.. .We are called to show them that God has come to offer them His Love..
2 Corinthians 5:19
And this Love is Christ on the Cross, and that is how you explain it.
We share God's love, and this may not resonate within them, at this time. But, that's ok. As this seed , that is the Gospel, that is Christ on the Cross, that is the Love of God....that you put in them will not return void.
It'll grow.
You planted the seed.. And if they want to talk about it later, good. if they dont.. fine.
Its only our part, to give them God's love, .. Its not our part to make them believe... It is our ministry to show them what to believe.
=The Gospel of the Grace of God as Christ on the Cross.
And while you are waiting, you need to pray for them.= That this seed that is planted will take root and ripen, will bud, will flourish in their heart.
What this is, is "soul winning".."missionary work".. that is an APOSTLE... that is what it means...... and when you do this, you are performing the most important part of discipleship. The most important part of Christianity.
So, love them into the Kingdom.
Pray for them on the way there.
And Reader.... be certain that its CHRIST Crucified that you share with them, as God's love... = The Gospel
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Evidence of an afterlife is a different story. That's been one of the key focuses of my entire life. There is a great deal of evidence of multiple varieties. A substantial portion of atheists believe in an afterlife. If someone were serious and had the time, that would be my challenge: Really investigate the nature of reality and consciousness; the evidence for an afterlife; the evidence for an intelligent designer; whether deism or theism provides the better answer; why Christianity provides the best answers. In other words, arriving at belief can be a progression toward well-informed convictions where the final leap of faith becomes natural and inevitable. Despite the stakes, few people are really willing to put forth the effort.
Are people "led to the Lord"? It reminds me of lightweight apologist Frank Turek, who screeches at the beginning of every radio program "Know why people are so easily talked out of Christianity? BECAUSE THEY'VE NEVER BEEN TALKED INTO IT!!!" I always answer - I can't resist - "People aren't talked into Christianity, Frank."
What you say suggests there is some technique, some sales pitch, by which people are led to God. There are superstar salesmen and inept salesmen. I really don't think this is how it works. The calling and convicting are by God and are great mysteries.
Berserk said:
Our task as Christians is not to communicate the truth, but to find the way of communicating the truth that makes the decisive difference.
To judge by the inept replies of your respondents, I'd wager that none of them has personally led anyone to the Lord.
Your point, I suppose is that we can't accomplish this in-and-of-ourselves. And I agree.
But, there is responsibility and method to this business of Evangelism.
Some I agree with, and some I don't.
I've done street evangelism and door-to-door and personal evangelism.
The door-to-door actual resulted in a church plant.
As far as I know, that church is still in existence.
I think I was kicked out for heresy. - LOL
The technique involves recognizing WHEN God is calling someone, and leading them to Christ, when appropriate.
Some training and experience helps. This can be rather terrifying for a Christian to do at first.
But it's a real thing.
Sometimes God tells me to talk to a complete stranger.
Usually to pray about a need. That hasn't ended in leading someone to Christ.
But I believe I am one of several whom God is using in that person's life.
See posts #161 and #165 on this topic. Wow.
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Our task as Christians is not to communicate the truth, but to find the way of communicating the truth that makes the decisive difference.
To judge by the inept replies of your respondents, I'd wager that none of them has personally led anyone to the Lord.
Yes, people are led to the Lord. It's called Evangelism. (but you knew that)
Your point, I suppose is that we can't accomplish this in-and-of-ourselves. And I agree.
But, there is responsibility and method to this business of Evangelism.
Some I agree with, and some I don't.
I've done street evangelism and door-to-door and personal evangelism.
The door-to-door actual resulted in a church plant.
As far as I know, that church is still in existence.
I think I was kicked out for heresy. - LOL
Right. No one can come unless God draws them.
The technique involves recognizing WHEN God is calling someone, and leading them to Christ, when appropriate.
Some training and experience helps. This can be rather terrifying for a Christian to do at first.
But it's a real thing.
Sometimes God tells me to talk to a complete stranger.
Usually to pray about a need. That hasn't ended in leading someone to Christ.
But I believe I am one of several whom God is using in that person's life.
See posts #161 and #165 on this topic. Wow.
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BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Being agnostic says they're not completely sure about the God question. Which would not be the case if they identified as a strong atheist, for example.
So,maybe their leaving the door open is a good sign.
In any case,it is God who opens the mind to receive his instruction.
All you can do is be a friend. Time will tell.
So,maybe their leaving the door open is a good sign.
In any case,it is God who opens the mind to receive his instruction.
All you can do is be a friend. Time will tell.
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Some thing is happening. See posts #161 and #165.
Looking forward to this Easter Sunday.
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You evidently delight in creating a simple-minded strawman caricature that trivializes the power of Spirit-anointed witnessing. When I was 19, I witnessed door-to-door and in the streets in cities across Canada. I was fortunate enough to be paired with a godly man, Ken K (age 35). At first I though his simplistic use of Campus Crusade's 4 Spiritual Laws were too wooden and mechanical. But to my dismay, Ken led many, many people to pray to the sinner's prayer and accept Christ. I thought I was a better listener and had a richer more convincing approach, but I soon learned to shut up and serve as Ken's silent prayer partner. What was the difference? At the end of each day I was exhausted from walking all day in the hot sun and needed to rest and recreate in the church basements where we often stayed. Not Ken! He was on his knees again for long periods in preparation for going back out in the evening! Curious, I again tagged along. It seemed as if half the people he accosted accepted Christ through his witness--an amazing testimony to the evangelistic power of the Spirit working through a fully yielded life!
I likewise was with Campus Crusade and likewise went door-to-door on campus with the Four Spiritual Laws. I went with Crusade to the Rose Bowl parade and witnessed in the streets. I attended conferences at Arrowhead. At meetings, we would prattle about how many souls we had won, almost as though we had a salesman's quota and those who received Christ were notches on our guns. It didn't take long to recognize there was something wrong with this approach; it wasn't real. Quite possibly, some of those who "accepted Christ" became deep, mature Christians - but if they did, it was completely the work of the Spirit, not the quality of our spiel.
Your use of the term "accosted" in reference to Ken is interesting.
Would Ken have @St. SteVen's agnostic friend on his knees in ten minutes? Seriously, what do you think?
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