My Scripture Can Beat Up Your Scripture

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi all,

The point is that we are never going to come into a unity of the faith unless there is a unity of the Spirit first. The unity of the Spirit will only come through a shared experience of God. Using scripture to fence with each other is getting us nowhere. We must come to knowledge of the truth through being in the presence of God. Do we want to play rock'em sock'em scripture debate or do we want to know what and who God really is?

Through the spirit I know instantly if there is the ring of truth to what I read and what I hear. If I hear my Father’s voice then I look closer. This is how I approach learning new truth. I really don't care if the ring or truth I hear is from something I have not considered or that contradics what i have always believed...I just want the truth no matter what it is. None of my doctrines are set in stone whereas many peoples doctrines are all mixed up and set like cement.

Some people have great intellects but they are ineffectual because they do not allow God to lead them out of the ruts they have dug for themselves. Wrong is wrong no matter how much study you have put into it but unless you are willing to let the Holy Spirit show you something completely different you will not be able to be led by His Spirit. So much of what people believe is so wrong yet they are so entrenched in their dogma that they can see nothing else.

It comes down to humility and submission to the Holy Spirit. If I hear my Fathers voice when you write or speak I will listen no matter who you are. If I do not hear my Fathers voice when you write or speak I won't pay attention to anything you have to say. Thus your intellect or scriptural proof means nothing to me unless I hear the voice of God in it. If you have a problem with this then I suggest that you don't trust the Holy Spirit to lead and guide others into the truth. I hear my Fathers voice because I am of His flock...if you do not speak with His voice I will not hear you or follow what you say.

 

[biggandyy]

Your said, "Through the spirit I know instantly if there is the ring of truth to what I read and what I hear."

I say, "Through the Scripture I know instantly if there is the ring of truth to what I read and what I hear."

We only come to a knowledge of the Spirit through Scripture and the preached Gospel.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

I come to the knowledge of scripture through the spirit of Life...i.e. the Holy Spirit.

You come to the knowledge of scirpture through the knowledge of good and what seems right to you natural mind which brings death.

 

[martinlawrencescott]

I've had the experience many times where I was wrong about something, but God didn't reveal it to me until way later, and it usually had to do with an experience or test in my life. A lot of revelation seems to be a timing sort of thing. I have to consider that I may still be in that incomplete place on parts of scripture and my understanding, and that I'll grow if I continue to follow God and His Spirit's leading in my life. I can rest in the foundational truth of Christ and His teachings and principles. There is one truth on this other stuff as well that we are disagreeing on all the time as the body of Christ, but just as we come to a truth based on experience of revelation, so others might need the same to share in the same understanding. I try not to go against someone else' convictions based on their current revelatory knowledge, and their application thereof might look different than mine. That's the point of argument; not to use our means to derail someone (truth itself is good enough at that), but to inform and to build up one another to the best of our ability with the truth we've received up to our current point. Also, to never think I've reached the top, but to keep reaching, considering those around me might be offering me their hand to reach a higher level in spiritual maturity, if I'm so lead by the Spirit to take their hand. Even when I've reached the top in knowledge, I can never reach the top in love.

 

[THE Gypsy]

I come to the knowledge of scripture through the spirit of Life...i.e. the Holy Spirit.

You come to the knowledge of scirpture through the knowledge of good and what seems right to you natural mind which brings death.

Careful there, Sparky. That type of judgement puts you on some pretty shaky ground.

We are to hold on to Christ and not the current beliefs/doctrines we may have at the time. If we do not allow God to renew our minds and correct our thinking then we are not moving forward in, and with, Him. We are not called to hold tight to our beliefs. We are called to hold tight to Him with an open heart and mind.

No one knows everything about everything there is to know about. Our walk evolves as the Spirit ministers to us through our life experiences. We need to respect those that have gone before us and realize they just may have a truth that God, in all His wisdom, is trying to reveal to us.

I've had the experience many times where I was wrong about something, but God didn't reveal it to me until way later, and it usually had to do with an experience or test in my life. A lot of revelation seems to be a timing sort of thing. I have to consider that I may still be in that incomplete place on parts of scripture and my understanding, and that I'll grow if I continue to follow God and His Spirit's leading in my life. I can rest in the foundational truth of Christ and His teachings and principles. There is one truth on this other stuff as well that we are disagreeing on all the time as the body of Christ, but just as we come to a truth based on experience of revelation, so others might need the same to share in the same understanding. I try not to go against someone else' convictions based on their current revelatory knowledge, and their application thereof might look different than mine. That's the point of argument; not to use our means to derail someone (truth itself is good enough at that), but to inform and to build up one another to the best of our ability with the truth we've received up to our current point. Also, to never think I've reached the top, but to keep reaching, considering those around me might be offering me their hand to reach a higher level in spiritual maturity, if I'm so lead by the Spirit to take their hand. When I've reached the top in knowledge, I can still never reach the top in love.

Well said.

 

[mark s]

I come to the knowledge of scripture through the spirit of Life...i.e. the Holy Spirit.

You come to the knowledge of scirpture through the knowledge of good and what seems right to you natural mind which brings death.

Come again???

I love the quote from Dr. Walter Martin . . .

Words have meanings.

Learn the Scriptures. This is the sure and true knowledge. And then you will know what is the Spirit and what is not the Spirit in your life.

Otherwise, it is only you own opinions.

Love in Christ,
Mark

 

[biggandyy]

I come to the knowledge of scripture through the spirit of Life...i.e. the Holy Spirit.

You come to the knowledge of scirpture through the knowledge of good and what seems right to you natural mind which brings death.

That is completely backwards and leads many to all sorts of error and distortion.

The Holy Spirit isn't the Force and we don't have midicrians. The Holy Spirit is only revealed in Scripture and then only experienced through regeneration. Any deviation from that order is unscriptural and eventually leads to despair and hopelessness in life.

 

[neophyte]

If you would only listen to the Words handed down from the apostles from Jesus then you would have the real understanding of that which Jesus taught. [ Luke 10:16 ] if you try and interpret Holy Scripture your way then you end up with a personal opinion. Yes it is possible to misunderstand the Bible because we can see from the thousands of conlicting interpretations from non- Catholics. Private reading of the Bible is a must but not private interpretation, one must interpret the Bible the way is was intented as did the early Christians, not so from private interpretation then you get personal opinions [ 2 Peter 3:16 ] [ John 20: 30 ] [ 2 Thess. 2:15 ]

 

[THE Gypsy]

That is completely backwards and leads many to all sorts of error and distortion.

The Holy Spirit isn't the Force and we don't have midicrians. The Holy Spirit is only revealed in Scripture and then only experienced through regeneration. Any deviation from that order is unscriptural and eventually leads to despair and hopelessness in life.

BWAHAHAHAHA! "midicrians"

I had to look that up.

 

[dragonfly]

The Holy Spirit is only revealed in Scripture and then only experienced through regeneration. Any deviation from that order is unscriptural and eventually leads to despair and hopelessness in life.

After regeneration, the Holy Spirit is in agreement with the written word of God and the revelation of the Father and the Son in us. Any 'revelation' which is in disagreement with scripture, to which the Spirit of truth cannot bear witness, should be discarded.

Truth is not a hard taskmaster, but Truth will cause us to embrace the cross willingly, no matter what is at stake. The Life is there.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

It is a different way of arriving at truth.

 

[biggandyy]

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except by me." The Holy Spirit illuminates truth, but that Truth is Christ Jesus. And He is found in the pages of Scripture (the Word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us, not the Spirit was made flesh...)

 

[neophyte]

You still are noticeably refraining to adhere intirely to Holy Scripture with your cafeteria- style religion, take only what you like and leave the rest, you refuse the 'Authority" of Jesus when He told his apostles that all of his Teaching Authority will be grafted into then alone, and they only to their select ordinated successors [ using just one of many examples from the Words of Scripture; Luke 10:16 ] that is a very strong Authoritive statement from Jesus to His apostles , why do you not believe that Jesus wasn't emphatic in those Words of His ?

 

[Rex]

That is completely backwards and leads many to all sorts of error and distortion.

The Holy Spirit isn't the Force and we don't have midicrians. The Holy Spirit is only revealed in Scripture and then only experienced through regeneration. Any deviation from that order is unscriptural and eventually leads to despair and hopelessness in life.

Big Andy this has to be the greatest truth in this thread, the parable of the day ROTF LOL

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Perhaps some have misunderstood me and I would like to put it another way so you can understand. I believe in the highest authority there is, i.e. the Holy Spirit. There is no need, other than when you are a baby christian perhaps, for others to stand between you and God interpreting what He says and deciding what you can or cannot believe. It is imperative that the body of Christ become directly connected to Him through the Holy Spirit. Church government was given only until the general body comes into the fulness and the stature of Christ. If you believe we are at the end of the church age, as I do, then that is about to happen.

 

[neophyte]

Perhaps some have misunderstood me and I would like to put it another way so you can understand. I believe in the highest authority there is, i.e. the Holy Spirit. There is no need, other than when you are a baby christian perhaps, for others to stand between you and God interpreting what He says and deciding what you can or cannot believe. It is imperative that the body of Christ become directly connected to Him through the Holy Spirit. Church government was given only until the general body comes into the fulness and the stature of Christ. If you believe we are at the end of the church age, as I do, then that is about to happen.

The Holy Bible which contains the inerrant Word of God begs to differ with you.Church authority was given by the Authority of Jesus to His Apostolic Church.Only 'three'times did the Holy Spirit ever appear and twice to His apostles.Yes, of course the Holy Spirit is there for us if we ask for it but the HS will and always lead us to Jesus but when it comes to matters of the Christian Faith then the Holy Spirit guides only Christ's One Apostolic Church, as it did always , where do you think you recieved your basic tenets of the Christian faith when your founders first split from His One Apostolic Church, it was from that Church and that Church alone that fought and preserved Christianity until your founders bastartized it all into a mess of many different spirits while all of your conflicting churches proclaim that your individual church/cult have the correct one interpretation from the One and Only Holy Spirit, confusion was invented not from God, but from the finite minds of mere-men not from those apostles/successors with Christs Authority bestowed upon them.

 

[biggandyy]

Justin, Scripture describes the Holy Spirit in personal terms, not as an impersonal force, when it says that He teaches, guides, comforts and intercedes. He possesses emotions, intellect and will. It is the Spirit who brings conviction to the unbeliever and causes him to see the truth of the gospel in a clear light. The Holy Spirit sovereignly bestows spiritual gifts or abilities for service to every believer. The Holy Spirit controls the believer who yields to God and submits himself to God’s Word.

No where is the Holy Spirit given AUTHORITY. Christ ALONE has all authority in Heaven and on Earth.

 

[IanLC]

Justin, Scripture describes the Holy Spirit in personal terms, not as an impersonal force, when it says that He teaches, guides, comforts and intercedes. He possesses emotions, intellect and will. It is the Spirit who brings conviction to the unbeliever and causes him to see the truth of the gospel in a clear light. The Holy Spirit sovereignly bestows spiritual gifts or abilities for service to every believer. The Holy Spirit controls the believer who yields to God and submits himself to God’s Word.

No where is the Holy Spirit given AUTHORITY. Christ ALONE has all authority in Heaven and on Earth.

For one of the first times I agree with you on this! Very well written sounds like something I would write! LOL :)

 

[Justin Mangonel]

You know Bigg, I don't disagree with your first part and I think that it is a good word. I guess what i am trying to explain here is that it is the Holy Spirit that is supposed to control us. I don't divide up God as finely as you seem to be doing. God is one. The Holy Spirit is God for God is holy and is a Spirit. So there is no difference. Since they are one the authority is the same. Jesus, whom I believe is a glorified man at this point is filled with all the fulness of the Godhead...so there is essentially no difference there either.

The Holy Spirit is the manifestation of God that is front and center in this day and age. We are bought with a price and we are not our own. Therefore, whatever He wants us to do or believe should be more than alright with us. The problem with doctrine is that people will not let the Holy Spirit control them if it goes against what they believe. Theoretically this should be fine but that presupposes that we have correct doctrine. We do not...not even close on a lot of subjects. So, believing false doctrine to be the truth we reject the Holy Spirit when He comes and contradicts our false doctrine. We kick Him out the door. This is the rub...this is the problem.

You see, the post that you wrote made me pay attention...why? Because I heard some of my fathers voice in it and your heart. The Spirit in me connected a bit with the Spirit in you and they agreed. It was not because your scripture was better than mine but because I heard my Father in what you wrote. That is what I am trying to point out.

God bless,

Justin

 

[mark s]

Jesus, whom I believe is a glorified man at this point is filled with all the fulness of the Godhead...so there is essentially no difference there either.

Hi Justin,

To be clear . . . you do not believe that Jesus is the pre-existant and eternal God incarnated as a Man? That YHWH of the Old Testament, and Jesus of the New Testament, are one and the same Eternal God?

Is that correct?

Love in Christ,
Mark