What 'regathering'? Not the One God does. There is no other He is involved in that I have seen. They gathered their little selves in a secular country, and God knew they would do so. So?
Nation born in a day in 1948?
- Thread starter dad
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are debating in a prophesy thread and have to ask that?
Says who? They gathered and God allowed it. Yes He plans to deal with them and do what it takes to get them to repent in the last week of history. (7 years) That is kind of like when their history starts again after a long slumber.
You got that right, He will purge Israel.
Not sure, I think I can decipher OK, never mind. (edit) I think it is your browser that has the spellcheck, not this site. Firefox and I think Chrome have it)
Nope. Israel is only elect when they believe in Jesus. The nation of modern Israel is basically pagan, secular. Only when they elect to believe in Him will they become elect.
The larva that changes to a butterfly sort of ends I guess. However the people will be alive and well, and even partying (Wedding Feast) up there, so it was anything but an end.
Last edited:
God set up Israel. Man set up modern Israel. Big difference. He is not Jew that is one outwardly, but inwardly. Only the saved remnant (after the majority are killed) will go on to be Israel that gets gathered to that land. No one else.
Davy
Well-Known Member
If you don't believe Apostle Paul in Romans 11:25-32 about when God will forgive the unbelieving Jew's sins, then how do you expect to have your sins forgiven? You need to get rid of your hatred against the unbelieving Jews. We as Christians are not to hate them, but have hope in God's promise to them that He will remove their blindness and save them, which Paul covered here...
Rom 11:25-32
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
KJV
Israel was set up by God. The country that has the name Israel today was not. The Israel He gathers to the land will be believers in Jesus.
Chapter and verse?
It is not impatience but belief that Christians have when they acknowledge that God will one day save all the remnant of Jews that believe on Him finally in the end. Those who say that the gathering of a secular nation with the same name today fulfills prophesy are the impatient ones!
Strawman argument. Of course I believe Paul. He is saying they will be turned fom blindness and ungodliness when they accept Jesus. Some other point?
Davy
Well-Known Member
According to Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3:9, it is God's desire that none... should perish, but that all... come to repentance.
And when Lord Jesus returns, the leftovers that came up against Jerusalem, even they will exist throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign that begins at His return.
The unsaved are going to be given a "thousand years" to repent, while 'seeing' Jesus Christ as He is, and thus knowing beyond all doubt, that He is God The Son.
Even in Revelation 3:9, Lord Jesus told His elect of the Church of Philadelphia, that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet. That will only happen for that future "thousand years" of Revelation 20.
HOW then, do those who will still refuse Jesus by the end of that thousand years, still reject Him and thus perish?
It will be because those wicked unsaved will CHOOSE to perish if they cannot be their own god, like Satan promised Eve. That means they themselves will choose to go into the future "lake of fire".
And when Lord Jesus returns, the leftovers that came up against Jerusalem, even they will exist throughout Christ's future "thousand years" reign that begins at His return.
The unsaved are going to be given a "thousand years" to repent, while 'seeing' Jesus Christ as He is, and thus knowing beyond all doubt, that He is God The Son.
Even in Revelation 3:9, Lord Jesus told His elect of the Church of Philadelphia, that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come worship at their feet. That will only happen for that future "thousand years" of Revelation 20.
HOW then, do those who will still refuse Jesus by the end of that thousand years, still reject Him and thus perish?
It will be because those wicked unsaved will CHOOSE to perish if they cannot be their own god, like Satan promised Eve. That means they themselves will choose to go into the future "lake of fire".
Davy
Well-Known Member
Still you reject what Paul said in quoting the Old Testament prophets, which is about when GOD Himself takes away their sins. That's why Paul said ALL ISRAEL will be saved. Since GOD is Who put the blindness away from The Gospel upon them for this present world, He certainly is able to put The Gospel in their hearts when He removes their blindness...
Rom 11:26-27
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
KJV
Isa 43:25
25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.
KJV
Jer 50:19-20
19 And I will bring Israel again to his habitation, and he shall feed on Carmel and Bashan, and his soul shall be satisfied upon mount Ephraim and Gilead.
20 In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.
KJV
Ezek 36:25-34
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.
32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.
33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.
34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.
KJV
John 1:v.11 to 14:
12 But as many as received JESUS, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received Him not.
Isaiah 1:v.9-10
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a VERY SMALL REMNANT (144K), we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
About Israel:
10 Hear the Word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
GOD will punish Israel severely very soon, only 144K will escape: - 2 Thess.2:v.3-4 and 9-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: (no more salvation. They are lost.)
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth(believed not in JESUS-John 5:v.43-47), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (They will worship the false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah according verse 4 above.
Be careful and get ready
12 But as many as received JESUS, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received Him not.
Isaiah 1:v.9-10
9 Except the Lord of hosts had left unto us a VERY SMALL REMNANT (144K), we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.
About Israel:
10 Hear the Word of the Lord, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
GOD will punish Israel severely very soon, only 144K will escape: - 2 Thess.2:v.3-4 and 9-12
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause GOD shall send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie: (no more salvation. They are lost.)
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth(believed not in JESUS-John 5:v.43-47), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (They will worship the false messiah, an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah according verse 4 above.
Be careful and get ready
Last edited:
He has not yet, if you noticed turned away ungodliness from the Jewish people. We know when that will happen, it sure was not 1948. All Israel (that is left alive) will be saved when they see Him in the end.
In case you are confused that means after they repent. It is not like a get out of jail free card just because they are children of Abraham.
In those days and that time is not 1948, in case that is news.
Right, at that time they will be made clean. Not before.
Show me anyone that thinks that applies to Israel today!!?
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I do not equate teh fig tree budding with Israel. Israel has always been symbolized by an olive tree.
If 1948 seems contrived, it is only because a school of thought called "replacement theology" has permeated so many sects of Christendom.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
so you believe God had nothing to do with Israel becoming a nation again after nearly 1900 years? You don't believe the regathering from teh diaspora is just a coincidene that God had no part in? Okay then, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I guess the Ezekiel passage to you hasn't happened yet or happened sometimes in the past.
Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version
33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 38:8
King James Version
8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
these verses describe Isrfael perfectly since 1948! But maybe you think these verses are the regathering in joy.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
YOu amaze me! YOu agree with teh factr that they will be judged, but you deny He is gathering back in the land as the passages say He will do. but any regathering before teh antichrist signs th ecovenant with Israel to staert teh final 7 years you just think is coincidence. And God just alloweing it and having no hand in it. Remember at themid poiint of teh trib- Israel will have to flee the land for the antichrist declares all out genodie against tehm.
Well I know that aqll Israel will be saved on eday. but a regathering to prepare them to pass under the rod of His judgment- you jjust reject it is occuring today. You seem to think it will come in a whoosh I guess.
Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version
33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:
34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.
35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.
36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.
37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
In you ropinion how is this fulfilled and what does this passage mean?
I never even implied this so you are just making that up! I said 1948 was th rebirth of teh nation and that God is regathering them from all nations as is going on right now as I type and has been going on for 73 years to prepare them to pass under the rod of His judgment and purge the rebels. You don't need to do that if they are all believers now do you.
I know of ono one who thinks that is fulfilled yet! It will be, but it hasn't occurred yet.
Then whydoes He have Russia and its allies attack Israel in the latter days? Why did Jesus say when they see the antichrist stand in the holy place- they need to flee? If they are believers why does God say He will regather them in fury and anger and judge them?
You ask in response to me saying that God uses men to bring Israel back:
Ez. 39: 22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
He also used the Babylonians, the Assyrians, The philistines to bring Israel back from their sins. also you can read the book of Judges and see how many times that heathenr Israel was juudged and led captive or taken captive and God rescued them over time. The fact that 72 years has passed and all Israel is not saved is of no consequence.
I have been to Israel and seen the number of jews who have turned to Jesus and worship in spirit and truth.
Israels sins have never kept God from keeping His promises to Israel. Remember when Abraham dreamed of the sacrifices? Only god passed through the split animals, meaning that god bound himself to himself to keep the covenants to Abraham and His descendants.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Nah, we are the ones whorecognize that god is bringing them back in the last days to prepare to turn to jesus. Sorry you think God will work near instantly in doing this. Matter of fact, when the nation gets saved, the bulk of the surviving Jews from Israel will be holed up in the rock city of petra! That is where they flee when th eantichrist rises from the dead, desecrates the rebuilt temple and causes Israel to flee th eland to the place god prepared for them to carew for them for 3 1/2 years.
In the sense that He allows nations to come up and knew Israel would be a country in the end, etc..sure. As far as God Himself bringing a saved remnant back to the land after destroying all their enemies, and being their King, no. Not yet.
The commentary I posted on that chapter places this as history, not prophesy of the end.
Ezekiel 38:8
After many days you will be called to arms. In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety.
This does not say GOD gathered them there at this time. It says they were there. They had gone/gathered there. When God gathers them, they will not have any wars to worry about or recover from. They will actually be forever safe, not living temporarily in so called safety and in sin, so that they need to be judged.
When they repent and HE gathers them there will be no one attacking anyone.
There is a regathering today. That is not God doing it and destroying their enemies etc. Obviously. That is them forming a secular nation in part of the land of promise, in rebellion against God and surrounded by enemies and about to be attacked one day. When God does it, it won't be Israel fearing or surrounded by enemies, it will be the enemies dying and fearing and being ruled by God with the help of Israel that is then saved.
The commentary I posted places that as history not prophesy of the end.
It is not made up that when God comes back and rules, that Israel will then be saved. Yes, the self gathered secular Jews of today must face judgment. They have been in rebellion a lot longer than 73 years!
The issue here is when God Himself brings/gathers them. That is after they repent and go through all that trouble.
No, where does any future prophesy claim He gathers them for the time of Jacob's trouble? There is prophesy, as I explained several times now, that says the AntiChrist will come, and that Israel will be attacked, and etc. That does not mean God gathered them.
That day forward was not 1948. That day is when all Israel gets saved at the end.
Of course. That is the reason, largely for that last week of history, to deal with Israel, and have them repent. Naturally He uses wicked nations to do that.
Nothing to do with the nation. Of course many are already being converted and saved.
It is not about keeping laws, it is about accepting Jesus.
Thus the history of the world is extended several years so He can do just that.
No bible supports that. So why would I assume God wanted terrorists, for example to blow up a hotel, and etc etc to form a secular nation? Yes He knew about what would happen. I can't blame Him. You do realize that the saved Palestinians are His people also? When God destroys their enemies He will not be destroying one single believer!
Even if true, so what? Once they all cry out to God and accept Jesus they will be safe and no hiding is needed at all any more. On the contrary.
Well, when God brings them back they will not ever flee anywhere again. That was not 1948.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Pythagorean12
Active Member
What I find intriguing about Israel is the obstinance of its Jews. All the history written where it appears they are hated, enslaved, exterminated, and then rescued time and again by God's providence.
And still, they deny the Messiah has come.
They just don't get it.
And still, they deny the Messiah has come.
They just don't get it.
Paul was talking about how all can get saved, and that includes Jews.
Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
That time did not come in 1948, sorry. That time comes when all Israel gets saved and believes in Jesus. Not before. Until then, they remain blind. It is not hate to face the truth that all must believe in Jesus to be saved, including Israel, of course. To call that hate is ignorant.
Similar threads
